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Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 6:44:44 AM   
ballerinaboy


Posts: 16
Joined: 10/24/2007
Status: offline 		Hi there everyone.Me and a friend are in the new year going to be trying shibari/suspension,and we have a brand new room to play in..I was wondering if anyone can advise me as to strong hooks for the ceiling/wall,pulley systems etc,in other words stuff that can easily support my bodyweight (14 stone)...how many hooks should I go for? And do I need other stuff like polyfilla etc to really ensure a prope job is done..im looking for this to be a permanent,arrangement,when room is not being used,hang up plants,paintings etc?!! Many thanks!
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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:05:00 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		you will want long solid eye lag bolts to be safe, they should go at least half way into a stud. if your eye is not solid, take it to a welder and make it so. The hardware chap should be able to tell you what the strenght rating is, dont know offhand what 14 stone is but lets make it a round 200 pounds, then you want to rig for about 500 pounds because if you struggle at all, you can cause some pretty gnarley torque.

Just because (you prolly dont need it, but wouldnt your face be red bouncing face first into the downstairs neighbors crotch while they are having a calgon moment in the tub.) you want to way over rig.  2.5 times if you can get it.

Ron

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:06:22 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

you will want long solid eye lag bolts to be safe, they should go at least half way into a stud. if your eye is not solid, take it to a welder and make it so. The hardware chap should be able to tell you what the strenght rating is, dont know offhand what 14 stone is but lets make it a round 200 pounds, then you want to rig for about 500 pounds because if you struggle at all, you can cause some pretty gnarley torque.

Just because (you prolly dont need it, but wouldnt your face be red bouncing face first into the downstairs neighbors crotch while they are having a calgon moment in the tub.) you want to way over rig.  2.5 times if you can get it.

Ron


Now we can call you ToolTimeDom!

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:07:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		errrhhh ehhhrrr ehhhhrrrr.......

Tim

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:08:03 AM   
Phin


Posts: 1802
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		he made a serious post

**crawls under the desk and prays for the best**

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:11:43 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOL, I post serious shit all the time, can't help it if someone thinks the way I say it is funny.

BTW, OP so lets say the dude says the thing is rated at 5 stone (they will go more than that) that means to me as a rigger you will need to be held up by at least 7 hooks........usually two or three is gonna be the max....

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/18/2007 7:12:35 AM >

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:39:06 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		It's better if you have access to the ceiling beam. Bolt all the way through the beam. In fact bolt another beam of larger size to several ceiling beams and hook your suspension equipment to that one.

Remember that if something is rated for 100 pounds, that means 100 dead weight. People move and twist putting several times that. So for a person weighing 100 pounds, the suspension equipment should be rated for six or seven hundred pound.

But if you're living in a typical post war, stick built apartment built with two by fours, they aren't going to carry the weight safely. This is not something to jury rig, because you can do major damage.

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 7:53:36 AM   
LadyRope


Posts: 64
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		just in passing,shibari is NOT all about suspention,and most will tell you ,that before you try hanging someone good advice would be to make sure your floor ties and body harnesses (that are proper for suspension ) be done with your eyes closed...otherwise I fully agree with DesFip,knowing your weight ratio is really important...pollyfilla will NOT hold...

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 9:51:04 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		At 14 stones you had better find a beam, joist, stud, whatever they call it there. Just by twitching and turning you can increase your effective weight by near fivefold.

You need a stud, or whatever they call it, what the drywall is screwed or nailed to. One of them at least.

I once punched, with bare fist, all the through both sides of a wall that was 5/8" drywall on both sides. The other side was in the kitchen and the piece flew across the room about six feet and lodged itself under the microwave. Do not trust that wallboard, it has not the strength. Do you think I can punch with the force of 5 X 14 stones ? I am not so sure.

But we are not talking about punching here, we are talking about your safety. Those expanding lags, or whatever they call them there, such as used for hanging pictures etc., forget it. This is a whole different ballgame.

Fact of the matter is, when you fall and you are not ready for it you can get hurt.In fact when any restraint breaks down you can get hurt. See I am a nut, I once made it so I had to break a chain to get out. Well I did obviously, but when I did it, I almost rammed my head into the wall. Normally that is not a big problem obviously, if I can punch all the way through, but I could have hit a stud. OUCH !

What I guess I am saying is that no matter how good of shape you are in, you can still get fucked up doing this shit. You don't ever want a restraint to break, but for once in awhile. And that has to be a controlled situation. Unexpected breakage of bondage gear can be dangerous, in so many ways.

Make sure your rig is strong, and keep your powder dry.

T

(in reply to LadyRope)
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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 10:10:07 AM   
ballerinaboy


Posts: 16
Joined: 10/24/2007
Status: offline 		my thought would be to use a wooden beam thats about a foot thick,drill two holes through it about six foot apart,and attach four eyebolts,one in each hole,so I can hang parallel to the beam if need be..that should do the trick shouldnt it?

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 10:21:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Gi us 14 stone in poundage, sport......

use fender washers, and by god if you can get all the way to  bolt thru, double nut the fucking things

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 10:23:44 AM   
beeble


Posts: 799
Joined: 5/25/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

mnottertail wrote: dont know offhand what 14 stone is but lets make it a round 200 pounds

Good guess!  One stone is 14lb so 14st is 196lb.

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 10:30:02 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		great, that should work then....put a mattress or two under you, run a sling so you are hanging upright like a parachute and swing around some, see if it holds ---

when you are actually tied still, you wouldn't want the first scene out of the gate to be a face plant on some afterlife funniest videos show.

GhoulMaster

(oh yeah, look up quick release clips, in case 'mommie' has a heart attack when you are strung up, damn unsporting to have to talk to the bobbies when you are overhead, old cheese.)

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 11:39:35 AM   
John665623


Posts: 161
Joined: 2/25/2005
Status: offline 		Good advice over all here.  The idea of placing another beam along side of the joist from a weight bearing wall to the other weight bearing wall  is highly recomended.  Most 2"x6" or 2"x8" ceiling joists are not designed to support our weight on a single joist.  A knot hole, split, or crack in the wood and the failure might not only drop you on your butt but bring down the ceiling.  Screw or bolt the beams together to add even more strength.  Use a stud finder and make sure the eye bolt is right in the middle of the joist from side to side.  Make sure the eyebolt and hardware are rated for the weight with a little safety factor added in.  Inspect all the hardware and attachment area before each use.  If you paint the eye to match the ceiling, most people will not even notice it. 

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 3:58:57 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ballerinaboy

my thought would be to use a wooden beam thats about a foot thick,drill two holes through it about six foot apart,and attach four eyebolts,one in each hole,so I can hang parallel to the beam if need be..that should do the trick shouldnt it?


Wood has three dimensions... are you talking about a 2 x 12 x N  laid on end, or a 12 x 12 x N timber? A piece of lumber that's 12" on a side will be VERY heavy and expensive. A 2 x 12 standing on end will have too much torque acting on it and fall over. The largest you would need to go is 4 x 6, i would say.

Look for drop-forged eyebolts. They are solid all the way around. Here is an example:
http://www.stageriggingonline.com/drfoey.html
I've never used that site, but someplace like that could provide a lot of the materials you need. You'll see that the eyebolts have weight ratings on them.

As said, brace across 2 or more rafters, go straight through the brace, use fender washers (grade 8 if you can find them) on the other side, capped by one regular nut, then a lock nut. Do not trust a lag bolt for suspension.

For quick links to attach off the eyebolt, go to a store that carries outdoor gear for rock climbing, and purchase carabiners from them. They'll cost a lot more than the ones from the hardware store, but they're designed to support a moving human body in suspension.

The little bits and pieces can add up to a fair amount of money, but remember that the WEAKEST link in your suspension rig has to be strong enough to support the heavier of the two of you, while swinging and bouncing up and down. You don't want to cut a couple dollars on an eyebolt and end up breaking an arm when it fails.

Once you've got your suspension point set up, jump up and grap on to it, and do pull-ups, let your weight drop suddenly, swing back and forth, shake it... basically do your best to yank it out of the ceiling with your body weight. If it fails, better it fails while you're free to move and have your feet under you.

Good luck!

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 4:38:35 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

he made a serious post

**crawls under the desk and prays for the best**


Now PHIN...I thought you loved my witty quips!!

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 6:50:39 PM   
YesMistressIrish


Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline 		One other thing, or two....

1) Make sure you have some quick release hardware that is very easy to do in case of emergency. I talk to the guy at the rock-climbing shop. The first time I chatted with him he practically begged me for my phone number. He was a sweet hunk, so I gave it to him.

2) My mind went south, so I cannot remember what the second thing was. Oh-yeah:
Bad pain is Bad. Good pain is 'Good'.

I check with the sub for "Bad pain" and stop at the two hr mark.

I agree with the above posts re: making all the support bolts ready to hold about 8 times the wt. needed. Live-weight can pop out support that isn't geared to support it.

ps: have fun!




< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 12/18/2007 6:56:01 PM >

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/18/2007 10:32:39 PM   
BootBlackBlast


Posts: 378
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline 		Was I the only person smart enough to hire a professional??? I told them I wanted to hang a sky chair in my living room which I did. I also said that I want to be able to use a spring to bounce and spin so that it would be able to withstand the added torque of moving weight as well. But then again I ended up telling him the truth, he said he's done this about 5 times for the sole purpose of suspension. Just call your local contractor/handyman. It cost me around $100

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RE: Ceiling rings/hooks - 12/19/2007 6:33:52 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BootBlackBlast

Was I the only person smart enough to hire a professional???


Meh. It's hard to get good help these days. Around here, you end up with a contractor subbing out to somebody else, who has the actual work done by an illegal... even on little jobs. i trust my own work. (because i over-build the CRAP out of everything )

quote:


But then again I ended up telling him the truth, he said he's done this about 5 times for the sole purpose of suspension.


Heh, San Francisco, right? Gotta love it!

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Profile   Post #: 19
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