Offering a new Dominant Critique. (Full Version)

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Prismfire -> Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 4:14:05 PM)

I have a question I have been struggling a bit with. Recently a friend of mine asked me at a play event in a local play space whether or not he could *work me over later* I had not really seen him play although I know others who have had power exchange situations with him. I said sure figuring there wasn't too much he could do wrong that would hurt me. When we went into one of the more private rooms and he began to flog me. It quickly became obvious to me that he had no idea what he was doing. There were kidney shots and at least half of the blows landed full on my spine. There was a complete lack of control and the build up was non existent. Finally after a particularly painful blow directly on the base of my neck I exclaimed, "Watch the spine" which probably wasn't the best way for me to handle it but owie. In any case at that point he stopped.

How does a submissive guide a new dominant in a situation like this. What approach would not step on toes or egos and be well accepted. Since he is new I would hate to discourage him from further exploration.

Any suggestions on how to address this?




Dolce -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 4:27:06 PM)

I think it's perfectly legal to let out a little yelp every once in a while if a shot hits a bad spot (I've done that myself).

Honestly, I think how he takes it depends on how close of friends you are. I know I take constructive criticism far better from close friends than casual acquaintances. Perhaps you might steer him in the general directions of a local group's seminars. :-)




OldBastardly1 -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 5:06:40 PM)

Have a private talk with him. Ask him if he has ever bottomed. When he says "no", tell him
"i didn't think so, with some of those shots i took. If You don't mind, can I offer you a bottom's point of view to help you learn?" Say it with smile and soft expressions.
Doing it that way should not offend him.

Hope that helps.




ksub4u -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 5:09:58 PM)

Just a thought - do you have any friends in common with this man who are Doms and perhaps might have a chat with him to offer a few pointers?  Or even to point out to him that he *needs* some guidance?  If you have much more experience than he, and it sounds like you do, you could also sit with him over a cup of coffee and chat a bit, keeping it light, being sure to mention a few good things, as well as what you think he may need to work on.  You could use a very light tone and keep it friendly, but your experience should give credence to your opinion if he's truly listening.  If he seems defensive, I'd back off....but you may just give him enough pause for him to ask for guidance on his own. 




laurell3 -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 5:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prismfire

I have a question I have been struggling a bit with. Recently a friend of mine asked me at a play event in a local play space whether or not he could *work me over later* I had not really seen him play although I know others who have had power exchange situations with him. I said sure figuring there wasn't too much he could do wrong that would hurt me. When we went into one of the more private rooms and he began to flog me. It quickly became obvious to me that he had no idea what he was doing. There were kidney shots and at least half of the blows landed full on my spine. There was a complete lack of control and the build up was non existent. Finally after a particularly painful blow directly on the base of my neck I exclaimed, "Watch the spine" which probably wasn't the best way for me to handle it but owie. In any case at that point he stopped.

How does a submissive guide a new dominant in a situation like this. What approach would not step on toes or egos and be well accepted. Since he is new I would hate to discourage him from further exploration.

Any suggestions on how to address this?


While I agree with doing it in private, I don't agree that you should beat around the bush with the guy.  His feelings may be hurt or in the alternative he may hurt someone and end up in prison for it.  There are literally hundreds of sites out there to learn healthy impact sites from, if he hasn't done any basic research and picked up a flogger without any knowlege, hurting his feelings would be pretty low on my list of priorities at this point.




OldBastardly1 -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 5:19:12 PM)

I am curious.....just how hard was he hitting you?




DesFIP -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 6:03:55 PM)

I don't think worrying about his feelings is nearly as important as protecting yourself. You should have called an end to it once you realized he didn't know what he was doing. By protecting his ego, you risk your safety and the bottom he next convinces to let him top. This may have been with a light flogger, but next time he could have a cane and do significant damage with the first bad blow.

You do him more of a favor by telling him the truth and pointing him in the direction of someone who could teach him than you did by allowing him to keep practicing bad hits.




SirJohnMandevill -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 6:06:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prismfire

I have a question I have been struggling a bit with. Recently a friend of mine asked me at a play event in a local play space whether or not he could *work me over later* I had not really seen him play although I know others who have had power exchange situations with him. I said sure figuring there wasn't too much he could do wrong that would hurt me. When we went into one of the more private rooms and he began to flog me. It quickly became obvious to me that he had no idea what he was doing.


Reference, references. It would have been a good idea to ask the "others who have had power exchange situations with him" before letting him have at you. If that were impractical, it was your right to negotiate that you could change things as you went along.

I'm not a public play Dom, so I'm just giving you my gut feeling.

Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)




MadRabbit -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 6:16:10 PM)

If he can't handle sucking up his ego, accepting that he has no idea what he was doing, and taking some instruction with an attitude of improving as opposed to an attitude of personal insult, well...hey...that's his problem.

It isn't the best feeling in the world to be the new guy at the party that people come over to and readjust your flogging techinque to correct your bad motions, but we all go threw it at some point.




LadyHugs -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 7:17:34 PM)

Dear Prismfire, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
I am an avid supporter for support, education and skills building.  Flogging is something people have difficulty with because of several reasons--a lot of times its due to the lousy made flogger.  The tails flay out like a finger in an electric socket and shock 'n static look--fanning out.  Some cheap floggers need speed to keep the tails together.  I first look at the tool.  Tool causes some to get into some bad habits.
 
Another problem is patience.  Everybody is in a hurry to 'do something.'  I don't blame anybody however, accuracy is extremely important for all that you mentioned.  However, there are things a submissive/slave can do to protect themselves as well--it all has to do with position.
 
I also ask my students--to practice first on objects, like a wall or a sewing form, pillows and such.  I then move targets and they have to hit them and hit them spot on.  Their first flogging on a human being, I have the student TOP stand and keep their style of flogging and let the slave/submissive back into the flogging.  By a slave adjusting their own body--it gives perspective, distance judgment, target allignment.  New TOPS have all they can do to keep things together--they look at the whip--not you.  I find every student is focused too short and on how the whip moves--not the target--which is the submissive/slave.
 
I also like using post-a-notes with supportive medical tape on the skin and holding the post-a-note.  Reason behind such--they will see the post-a-note disturbed easier than seeing the tail caress the skin and by how much.  It also gives them a 'target.'  One can use the X as a target but I much prefer having the target look like a plus sign (+) on the shoulder blades, the peek of the buttocks. 
 
I also have my students take a cane and position themselves back as if they are flogging and do a figure 8--if they look at their hand/wrist--they are surprised how little they need to move.  It is not much more than turning a page back and forth.  Often when the flogger goes wild--its usually too much shoulder action.  It really can be localized to wrist and elbow--not the whole arm.  The cane which is light--would be roughly the distance from handle to tip of flogger tails.
 
If they have a distance judgment issue--use colors as to mark distance change--shoulders may be 1 inch inward whereas a buttocks might be 1 inch forward.  Shifting on the feet, they won't have to adjust their new found technique stroke.
 
I would also have students do one good stroke slowly--again, people tend to get in a hurry, eager and then quality strokes disappear and they creep forward.  And, as soon as their arm is tired--their aim is gone.
 
I would also wear a helmet, towel around the neck and waist--that would be great protection.  A weightlifter's belt works also.  However, that can be bulky and the real need is slowing down, be accurate and not treat a flogger like a hammer.
 
If the TOP puts their hand over your neck and he/she faces opposite of your position standing, have their hips next to yours as if in military formation.. then swing the flogger across the chest--like across the nipples--the flogger will not wrap and hit across your back.
 
Now--what can submissives/slaves do to help themselves.  Position is important.  If you roll the shoulders back, like standing at a military attention position, the spine will fold and back/shoulder muscles raise.  Clasping your hands, lacing fingers--this can shield the neck, just bring your elbows back as to allign with your shoulder and hip. [ ex. o-o-o] 
 
These are just a few tips off the cuff.  I do have a presentation handout with illustrations that give target sites and stroke patterns however, it is on CD-ROM.  As far as positions, although for caning--illustrated positions are on the www.CANE-IAC.com  a non illustrated sites can be found under Lady Hugs Caning.  Positions for slaves/submissives work for most impact play.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 




lockmeupplease -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 7:28:47 PM)

I must admit that I have used a not-so-subtle change in the sounds or movements I'm making to hint that a change needs to be made.  If that failed, then a safe-word followed by a quick conversation has saved both the scene AND my health.




Prismfire -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:28:51 PM)

We arent super super close... close enough for me to let him hit me LOL! I think what bothered me most was that he asked me because he came with three other Doms or switches.. maybe getting one of them to steer him in the direction of a class would be a good thing.




Prismfire -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:34:17 PM)

Your answer is exacly what I was hoping for... How to address it with him and not come across as a jerk or beat him down for trying. It actually helps alot.

In responce to your other question he was using all of his strength I think, The "scene" as it were which it wasnt really a scene it was just him flogging me for a few minutes as I stopped it fairly quickly by the time it was over he was in a full sweat and said he had a twitch in his arm... therefore my deduction that it was with all of his strength.

Thank you so much for your responce




Prismfire -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:36:58 PM)

I dont really, the promising thing is that he was watching other scenes and asking alot of questions of Dominants in other scenes. At the time I really wasnt sure how to handle it, and it probably should have been addressed immediately but I was very wary of making his first experience at this play space a bad one.




junecleaver -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:37:04 PM)

Depending on what tone you used, I think what you said was fine.  I would have provided some feedback after the second or third missed hit though, so it wouldn't have come out of the blue. 





Prismfire -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:42:45 PM)

The entire incident lasted maybe fifteen minutes tops... The first time he hit me really badly I said something. I do know that in this playspace there are many very skilled tops and dominants who will not hesitate to correct someone if they see them hurting someone. Unfortunately as I mentioned this was in a more out of the way part of the dungeon, Yes I should have spoken up sooner, I was trying to decide if he was just getting into the swing of the flogger which was not his and I was trying to figure out how to address it. This was a lesson to me as well and my question here is as much for me learning how to handle this if it ever happens again in the future as  it is in how to bring it up with him.




Prismfire -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:46:43 PM)

Thank you so much for your wonderfully in depth answer. The comments on positioning were ones I took special note of should something like this ever happen in the future. I also took some pointers from some of what you said for my own education on flogging. The post it note idea is fabulous, I think I will try it out for myself!

Thank you again I always enjoy your posts.




Prismfire -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 8:49:07 PM)

Something I will most definately do next time although I suspect I will be a whole lot more wary to play with someone I know is new.




snapdragon9 -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 9:54:20 PM)

Ideally, if he is a responsible top, you should be able to sit down with him and have a constructive conversation with him. If you get dramatic, he is less inclined to listen, especially if he is a Dom. If you keep it fiendly, you should be able to get him to think critically about his performance.




LadyPact -> RE: Offering a new Dominant Critique. (12/18/2007 10:45:16 PM)

First of all, if you had to tell him to watch the spine, there shouldn't be an ego involved.  He obviously didn't have the experience to have an ego related to a flogger in any way.

Guess what?  You have every right to tell him where his inexperience showed.  In fact, that's going to aid him in learning more.  I'm not saying tear the guy to shreds.  What I am saying is point out that it might be helpful to learn a little technique.  Maybe a little lesson or two from a Top he respects would be a good idea for him.

What happened here is exactly why I don't let Mine play with those who don't know what they are doing.




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