Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other cleaning chemical bottles dangerous?

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Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other clea... - 12/19/2007 7:27:01 PM

YourhandMyAss

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My dad's discovered that big bottles like the shout bottle or bleach bottle makes great heating pads, and microwaves them in our house microwave for about 18 minutes each. I think this could be potentially dangerous, and it certaintly does make the smell of bleach a strong scent, even though these bottles have been rinced out.

He however scoffs at me and won't take the possibility of potentially releasing hazardous chemical vapors into the house microwave seriously.

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/19/2007 8:44:26 PM

Termyn8or

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Before I proceed I would like to ask how the heck you use a bleach bottle as a heating,,,,, somthing.

Fact is you don't nuke plastic. It is not just the bleach or soap residue, it is the outgassing of the plastic. I try to avoid it, I can't say it is good for you but I could see how it is bad for you.

We have heard of outgassing of course, there have been reports of alergic reactions and studies done on sick buildings. The thing is, just what exactly is it outgassing ?

To expound on a boomerang tangent here, alot of people over forty should remember the smell of a record player. And hell that wasn't even microwaved. (but the tubes did warm it up a bit) What is smell, it IS outgassing.

I don't like plastic when it comes to food. My analysis of this is such : I would say that you are accelerating the outgassing by heating, and possibly more direct means from the microwaves themselves, of which we are unaware. But surely with water in the vessel heat is applied.

Since the solubility of a gas in a solid decreases with higher tenperature, this is inevitable, but the magnitude of the effect as well as it's consequences are largely undetermined. But there is one thing for sure, none of this is good.

Another factor is to understand, how clean is clean ?

If I take a bleach bottle and rinse it furiously with very hot water, put some water in it in case my car gets thirsty, open it up a few weeks later it smells like bleach. Of course I shouldn't put it in the radiator. But it smalls like bleach. Why ?

Because almost all plastic is porous, and the fact is that you can NEVER get it completely clean. Perhaps an autoclave can do it, but just try putting your cellphone in an autoclave. What's more your food generally does not touch your cellphone, unless you are a way worse slob than me.

So there is an issue about the components of the bleach and or soap residue inside the containers.What will happen is that they will evaporate and deposit themselves on the walls of the oven from which they will again evaporate and a portion will condense on your food.

However if we put this in perspective, I don't think you are really getting much more than the residue you leave if you clean the oven regularly. I think a more serious issue is the plastic, not the bleach or soap.

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 12/19/2007 8:52:05 PM >

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/19/2007 9:03:42 PM

sexypet

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i would get him a nice moist heat pack that you nuke for a gift.

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/19/2007 9:10:14 PM

petdave

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Why on earth is he using a bleach bottle as a heating pad??

Never mind, i don't want to know.

Okay, actually, i kinda do.

Bleach, chlorine, is nasty stuff. i'm sure that if people weren't so accustomed to having it the .gov would ban it in a heartbeat. Based on that fact, i dispose of the bottles immediately, and would not consider using them for anything other than dispensing bleach. Other laundry detergent bottles should be fine. If colored smoke starts coming out of the microwave, run, but i don't know of anything in particular that would cause problems.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 4

RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/19/2007 9:15:35 PM

YourhandMyAss

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sexy pet he has some of those too, all though he just burst one for microwaving it longer than was safe, the directions say no more than 5 minutes and he likes to put them on for say 15 minutes, thinks they stay warmer longer. he also likes them super hot, hotter than 5 minutes will get them. He likes the bottles cause it's frugal and thrifty and they're huge.

Petdave, he somehow discovered microwaving bottles and jars makes better wamers, he puts them under the blankets of the couch he sleeps on and they heat up the blankets and since then uses the large laundry detergent type bottles because they're large. he thinks he's being thrifty*IE frugal or saving money* by reusing the bottles and has found a great way to stay warm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Why on earth is he using a bleach bottle as a heating pad??

Never mind, i don't want to know.

Okay, actually, i kinda do.

< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 12/19/2007 9:17:55 PM >

(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 5

RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/19/2007 10:35:07 PM

soul2share

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The plastic used for those bottles is not the same type of plastic used for microwavable dishes......I honestly can't believe that he hasn't blown up the microwave, or melted a bottle inside it. And cooking chemicals and food in the same oven can't be good for you either. The reason you're smelling the chemicals is it has leached into the plastic. There's a reason that the bottles are marked DO NOT REUSE!

Personally, I'd throw ALL the bottles in the trash, and get him an electric blanket.

Just thought of something....pet stores sell heating discs that are specifically made to nuke. They hold heat for a great deal of time....my roomie and I used to nuke one, wrap it in a towel and leave it outside in a box for a stray cat that was hanging around. Even in Chicago area cold, we'd go out in the am, and it's still warm......after only 8 minutes in the microwave. If you can't find them in pet stores, try feed stores. Better, and safer, than his bottles.

< Message edited by soul2share -- 12/19/2007 10:38:24 PM >

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 2:08:31 AM

YourhandMyAss

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We have electric blankets they're on the bed in the bedroom lol, he don't sleep in the bedroom cause my mom snores like someone's idea of a horrible joke, and where he does sleep there's no outlet nearby and it's a tiny little couch.

He actually has ruined an old whiskey bottle he tried microwaving, it didn't outright melt like puddle melt but it sure did distort and buckle, but he makes fun of me or scoffs at me or just ignores me for saying that he could be doing something dangerous by microwaving the bottles. Of course he thinks he's blameless for the heating pad breaking after leaving it on hour after hour day after day. He just said it was a piece of junk and he'll buy one better, and if by god you can't use a product for what you want what good is it. I pointed out they were not ment to be bed heaters, and anything you abuse will ruin and he says well I guess I am just a shit then, or something mocking.

Those heat thingies are wonderful they just don't heat large area's. Perhaps something that does, and is not microwaving plastics?

quote:

ORIGINAL: soul2share

The plastic used for those bottles is not the same type of plastic used for microwavable dishes......I honestly can't believe that he hasn't blown up the microwave, or melted a bottle inside it. And cooking chemicals and food in the same oven can't be good for you either. The reason you're smelling the chemicals is it has leached into the plastic. There's a reason that the bottles are marked DO NOT REUSE!

Personally, I'd throw ALL the bottles in the trash, and get him an electric blanket.

Just thought of something....pet stores sell heating discs that are specifically made to nuke. They hold heat for a great deal of time....my roomie and I used to nuke one, wrap it in a towel and leave it outside in a box for a stray cat that was hanging around. Even in Chicago area cold, we'd go out in the am, and it's still warm......after only 8 minutes in the microwave. If you can't find them in pet stores, try feed stores. Better, and safer, than his bottles.

(in reply to soul2share)

Post #: 7

RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 5:00:16 AM

RCdc

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Apart from the fumes, the melting, the environmental impact and the exposure to chemicals, he has already potentially destroyed the microwave - which means you can no longer guarenttee that what you cook in there will be cooked properly as well as making the microwave dangerous and exposing the family to microwave elements as well - so you will be exposed to food poisoning as well. Oh and don't forget the fire hazzard and that will negate any insurance he may have.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 12/20/2007 5:01:56 AM >

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 5:08:19 AM

KyttynTheMynx

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Keep 911 on speed dial, know your exit routes, and make sure you know everything of value in your home. This cant end good...

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 6:23:24 AM

PanthersMom

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i think it's time to move out of mom and dad's house and find a safe place to live, one that's not exposing you to environmental poisoning and fire hazards. if daddy wishes to kill himself, let him. he can read, he can think, he can learn, he just chooses not to and makes fun of you for being smart enough to do the things he won't. or in this case, smart enough not to do the things he's doing. he's doing it purposely, he has to know it's dangerous, he just doesn't give a sh*t.

PM

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 6:39:46 AM

sub4hire

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Same thing Termy is talking about I have read. Pretty much even microwave plastic is not a good thing. It puts dangrous carcinogens into the air and into your body.

Best with glass. I recommend it the same way someone else did as a Christmas gift.
A couple of microwave heating pads.
It's one thing to be thrifty but when it is slowly killing you. I know you love your father too much to allow that to happen.

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 6:44:32 AM

pahunkboy

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i knew someone that claimed his sister got concer from styrofoam cups.

put your shoes in the over- the hot shoes will make you feel warmer. if not that- place on heat vent. in summer put them in freezer.

(in reply to sub4hire)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 6:49:26 AM

DesFIP

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Run an extension cord over to there and buy him an electric blanket. You aren't going to convince him, so it's easier to solve the problem.

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 7:15:55 AM

samboct

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OK, there are too many misconceptions going on here-

1) Bleach is not chlorine. Chlorine is Cl2, Bleach is sodium hypochlorite- NaOCl. There are no organic compounds here- in the environment bleach breaks down to table salt (NaCl) and oxygen (O2). About as environmentally benign as you're likely to get. Only under acidic conditions could you generate chlorine gas- hence DON'T mix vinegar and bleach- chlorine is very nasty stuff. Whiffing a little bleach isn't going to do much to anyone. Any action bleach causes- burning sensation in the eyes will be a short term effect-as long as it doesn't cause any injury. It's an oxidant- that's how it works. However, oxidants should not be taken lightly- splash on skin, splash in the eyes etc, you could get burned or lose your sight. Generally the stuff sold is dilute enough to not worry about- but if there's anything left and it gets nuked- and it gets more concentrated, that could be a problem.
2) Adding lots of water to something just means that the microwave is going to take longer heating it up. Microwave ovens short out when there are metals that reflect the microwaves- hence effectively the element cooks itself. I don't see why heating a large jug of water is any different than microwaving something on the larger end of the food scale- say a turkey. Both the water and the turkey will efficiently absorb the microwaves, hence heating up the object in the oven and not shorting anything out. Whether microwaves crap out because they can only run a finite number of hours- or if they crap out because their parts aren't environmentally stable (i.e. would an unused 200 year old microwave still work if you plugged it in?) I have no idea.
3) I suspect that the reason that some polymers are not microwave safe has to do with the amount of water they contain. Too much water means that there's a lot of energy going into the polymer, hence it melts. Molten plastic has a high heat capacity- and is likely to be tough to clean at any rate. It's also true that some people react badly to the outgassing of polymers which will be accelerated in a microwave. Realistically though, he's probably not breathing enough in to be worrisome. The only concern would be sensitization to outgassing, and there's typically more nasty stuff coming off of engine exhaust, carpeting, or what's in a paint shed.
4) I suspect that the do not reuse stickers on the bleach containers are much more a function of the dangers of mixing bleaches with acids-hence the company, to be on the safe side- said don't reuse the bottle, assuming that somebody wouldn't clean it out well. However, I'm damned if I see any problem with adding water to the residue in a bleach bottle- that's exactly how the stuff should be diluted.

Summary- I suspect that your old man is right- you're being a nervous nellie.
Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 12/20/2007 7:17:40 AM >

(in reply to sub4hire)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 9:41:45 AM

YourhandMyAss

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he don't believe it's dangerous, I really don't think it's a case of knowing it is, but choosing other wise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

he's doing it purposely, he has to know it's dangerous, he just doesn't give a sh*t.

(in reply to PanthersMom)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 9:45:41 AM

RCdc

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I don't know sam - I wasn;t even thinking about the bleach but what the bottles are made of and whether they have metals in or on them.
Regardless, it won't be microwavable(unless indicated) in which case then he is risking burning himself if it suddenly splits and have you ever seen a container explode in a microwave?

the.dark.

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 11:12:51 AM

Stephann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

sexy pet he has some of those too, all though he just burst one for microwaving it longer than was safe, the directions say no more than 5 minutes and he likes to put them on for say 15 minutes, thinks they stay warmer longer. he also likes them super hot, hotter than 5 minutes will get them. He likes the bottles cause it's frugal and thrifty and they're huge.

Petdave, he somehow discovered microwaving bottles and jars makes better wamers, he puts them under the blankets of the couch he sleeps on and they heat up the blankets and since then uses the large laundry detergent type bottles because they're large. he thinks he's being thrifty*IE frugal or saving money* by reusing the bottles and has found a great way to stay warm.
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Why on earth is he using a bleach bottle as a heating pad??

Never mind, i don't want to know.

Okay, actually, i kinda do.

Using a 2500 watt microwave for 15 minutes gobbles up 675 watts at close to 15 cents.

I know, not a huge ton of money, but it's a long time to microwave anything. Filling the bottle with steaming hot water from the stove or an electric kettle would save electricity, and make it much less likely to cause damage to the enviroment (especially inside your house.)

Stephan

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 12:26:05 PM

samboct

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Hi Dark

Most polymers don't have metals in them- it would be an expensive filler- and I'm pretty sure that most of these containers are either polyethylene (PE) or polypropylene (PP)- I guess some might be PVC. None of these polymers should have much metals- and most shouldn't contain much water. Polycarbonate (PC) tends to soak up water- which is why I have a hunch some of these containers might melt.

Now exploding in a microwave- well, there is some chance of that if you overcook it, PP and PE aren't really very high temperature materials- they have relatively low melting points- and microwave ovens have been known to concentrate radiation- which would lead to a hot spot. Might blow apart on a seam- but try an experiment- take a container- nuke it- and hurl it against a wall. See if it does any worse than the non-nuked container. I'll bet it'd be fine.

The only concern I've got is the bleach smell coming out-if the polymer is porous, and lets water in, that might cause it to melt more readily. But realistically, I suspect that the practice is relatively safe.

Sam

(in reply to Stephann)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 1:15:08 PM

sub4hire

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Ok, after reading your post I did a search. Found articles pertaining to Yes microwaving cooking is killing you and also articles saying no it is not.
This one from the FDA seems to be the one I would choose as a reputable source.

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2002/602_plastic.html

(in reply to samboct)

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RE: Is microwaving empty* rinsed out* bleach and other ... - 12/20/2007 1:56:48 PM

RCdc

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It's not the plastic exploding, its the liquid pressure inside.

Many years ago, I mic'ed a glass of water for tea(too lazy to boil a kettle) and forgot about it whilst talking to my work collegue. I was standing just off from the door. It must have been about 2 and a half minutes... no more than that and there was an almighty bang, the door flung open knocking me aside into my back. The cup was still in one piece but totally empty of water, which was now all inside the microwave and on the window opposite the unit the microwave was on. If anyone had been standing opposite it, they would have been severely scalded and I would have been in complete poop. I suffered major bruising on the right hand side of my back.

Two years later(I know it was two years because I was living with her and my son was just born), my friend did the same thing with milk and set her mic on fire.

So I don't need to do an experiment...

the.dark.

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