RE: Being open minded ?

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Jeffff -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 9:24:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble ~FR~ On some subjects (kinky activities, sex, dynamics) I'm very open-minded and pretty much unsquickable. On other subjects (adult consentuality) my mind is and will remain closed. I don't have a problem with either one. Celeste Oh, I do have a problem with Jeffff though. He uses way more than his fair share of F's. That shit just ain't right! [sm=crop.gif] Too bad...my mind is made up!!!....:) Jeff

juliaoceania -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 9:30:43 AM)
quote: Just what does being open minded mean , in your opinion, within this lifestyle ? Are any of us really open minded or do some activities, other peoples relationships or how others chose to learn or live still make us squeamish? I do not know what open minded means in the lifestyle, but the way I have heard it used most in the larger society is to describe someone that is open to considering many ideas and ways of being and not being closed minded to those ways of being even if they are different from their own. Even if they decide those ways of being are not for them, they still are open to the idea of other people being that way even though it is not their way. I do not smoke for example, I am open minded about other people smoking, I just do not want to smoke or be around it... that does not make me closed minded about smoking in general. There are many things that people do that are not right for me, but I considered it, and rejected it for my own reasons... a closed minded person won't even consider it, or will want to stop other people from doing it even if they are not bothering them with their behavior... like some religious groups attempting to legislate morality inside the privacy of another person's home.

velvetears -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 9:36:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I would like to add... that being open minded is not, by definition, a good thing. you can be open minded to the point of having no concrete...."values". you can end up drifting with whatever current pulls you This is a key point to being open minded. The idea that just because you won't embrace certain activities, philosophies, ideologies doesn't mean you are not openminded. Everyone has their own value system of what is right or wrong. Some are pretty black and white (killing not in self defense), there's no way i am going to say i will be open to the possibility of becoming a serial killer and try to see the pov of the serial killer and have it as even a remote possibility of something i would try. Is that being closed minded? i don't think so. Because i won't embrace doing certain activities in bdsm like scat play or being cut to bleeding i don't think makes me a closed minded person. What would make a person closed minded is when they say anyone and everyone else who engages in that is sick, demented, etc and they are wrong to engage in that. So in essense everyone has some things they are going to be close minded about, and other areas where they will be open minded. i think people can be open minded to the point of idiocy where they will follow anyone and try everything under the sun with no thought to the effects - so being "very open minded" has its draw backs. [edited to add] i also think open minded means accepting that there is more then one way to approach something - being willing to try new avenues and change your way of doing things. It's also not following familiar or standard patterns of thought - thinking outside the box for solutions.

juliaoceania -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 9:39:30 AM)
I agree, being open minded means being open to new ideas, not necessarily embracing those ideas into our lives... I can be open to considering many things, it does not mean I will adopt them as my own practices.

Aswad -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 9:43:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I would like to add... that being open minded is not, by definition, a good thing. you can be open minded to the point of having no concrete...."values". you can end up drifting with whatever current pulls you Actually, being open minded does not imply having no values. It implies realizing that you create your values. Also, being open minded is, by definition, a good thing outside certain professions (e.g. police), as it strongly correlates with improved function of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, and also has a signifcant, but not strong, correlation with intelligence. Either way, would you prefer to live a pleasant lie over facing hard truth? Most people would; a few of us would not. Health, al-Aswad.

Jeffff -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 9:48:19 AM)
I said it CAN be taken to far....It is a somewhat opposing view point. My thinking is, in and of itself. being open minded is neutral. What you do with it, is not Jeff

Aswad -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 10:30:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber I have approached your philosophy, based on the holy 26 crappy novels of John Norman, with an open mind and I was thuroughly rejected by those who follow it. Hey, bipolarber... my philosophy does not derive from the abysmally poor novels of John Norman. If you'd stuck around long enough, you might have realized that at some point. Hell knows I have said it more than often enough there. quote: I was called an "abomination." I've been called worse. Get over it. quote: I was told by one of your members that he "would sooner spit on me as talk to me." I might concur, but not for the same reasons. He said it because he was close-minded and prejudiced against your orientation and your inclination. If I were to say it, I would say it because you have insulted me by implying that my assessment is the same, and that I would venerate the shitty fiction spewed by Norman over what I believe to be the philosophy that lies at the core of my religious beliefs. That, and you're too trigger-happy. quote: As I say, I approached you guys with an open mind. As far as I can remember, you did not, but neither were you met with an open mind, so no matter. quote: But because your group is bigoted, (against Fem Dom, against male subs, against GLBT in general) I have had to change my views, and consider your philosophy to be worthless. I have a group now, all of a sudden? This is news to me, to be sure. Let me address this regarding myself, rather than this supposed group of mine, then: I find some femdoms attractive as life partners, and most as potential play partners, but I am not the man they are looking for. I can get on my knees for a session, but I cannot thrive while living on my knees. Simple as that. Hell, my mind is flexible enough that I'd probably be able to compartmentalize my mind well enough to submit for a weekend,or maybe even longer. But I cannot be myself in that space over time. And I can't feel that it's real for me if she isn't able to take me there, by force if need be. That excludes most femdoms, but not all, and I can still play with the rest if they want to, but it will be for my enjoyment that I do so, not hers. I think that pretty much defeats the point for most femdoms that might interest me. As for male slaves, I would probably be trying out one right now, if his English had been good enough to communicate clearly with regards to expectations, limits and so forth. I have never done so before, although I have had offers. If that is your nature, I respect you for it, and for living true to that nature. It is not my nature, however. Each thing in its place, according to its nature. Hell, even Bull has played with the thought (albeit as a purely service oriented thing). Male subs are unworkable for me, as are female subs at this time, as either would require emotionally bonding to both me and my girl. I take it you fully comprehend fidelity, and thus my respect for her not being poly (as far as we know). As for LGBT, if you had read the backlog, you would see that me, Naja, and various others, have explained that this is natural variation. You will also see that I have noted that, scientifically speaking, the brain is born without a preference for either gender, and that this preference arises through scent conditioning (a reversal of the genes involved in this will lead to an inverted effect of this stimulus) via scent-arousal coupling. Later, this preference is modified by the environment in which one is reared, along with exposure and any subsequent intentional efforts at changing the resultant arousal conditioning. For me, ass is ass. A man has one less hole for me to play with, and will generally look less attractive. Brad is sexy, and I'd do him. But I'd prefer to do his wife. And I would not have a chance at making a relationship work with him, for the simple reason that I do not bond emotionally with men in the same way that I bond with women. Whether that is a consequence of the aforementioned conditioning, doesn't really matter. I might be able to learn to love men, but I have no reason to do so; there's plenty of already compatible people out there, and I don't need to love one to fuck one or play with one. My girl is bisexual. She may even have a slight preference for the gals; it certainly seems that way at times, going by how many women she will find attractive, compared to how many men she will find attractive. It's her natural orientation. And I certainly don't mind that. Saves me the time it would take to get her used to having sex with women if she'd been heterosexually oriented. I would not want her to live contrary to her orientation. I've been open about these things all along, and it doesn't stop a significant number of the Gorean men and women on these boards from counting me among their number. Even some who do have the prejudices you describe have done so. Which leads me to suspect that there is something else that caused your reception on those boards, and I find that this suspicion is supported by the observations I made of your posting at the time. quote: Being "open minded" means giving something... an idea, a person, a lifestyle... a chance to prove itself. Bingo. Which is very close to paraphrasing a fundamental tenet: judge by merit alone. Not everyone follows that tenet perfectly, but we're only human, and thus imperfect, n'est ce pas? That said, my judgment of your merits was not favorable, which has nothing to do with you being LGBT, being a malesub, or your views on femdoms. Find a femdom that is willing to bring a cute malesub along on a vacation to Norway for some tag-teaming with me, and I'll have a go at it. That is not where the problem with you is at, for me. quote: But if it turns out that what you gave a chance to is evil and destructive, then you toss it on a scrap heap and try to tell others of your experience of it, to save them the effort... or at least let them investigate it on their own with their gaurd up. Actually, if what I've given a chance to is not to my liking, I leave it alone and shrug. If it's "evil" and destructive in my judgment, I put an end to it. No reason to pass it on to others. quote: There ARE things in BDSM that should be abandoned. On this, we disagree. Comes back to the "openmindedness" thing. quote: Things that are patently dangerous either physically, or mentally. Driving a car is patently dangerous. In fact, driving to and from work every day on the freeway is as dangerous as being promiscuous without a condom. Yet we allow people to do so. Jumping off a cliff, smoking, drinking excessively, and so forth, are all patently dangerous. Yet we allow people to do so. Going back to an abusive spouse is patently dangerous, both physically and mentally. Yet we leave it up to the battered spouse to choose. I pick my risks, and if anyone tries to interfere, they will learn that self-defense is for living, not just life. quote: It falls under the "safe and sane" part of SSC. Which is a part that not all of us adhere to, among other things because it's terribly relative. I take it you're familiar with RACK, for instance. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 10:34:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble On other subjects (adult consentuality) my mind is and will remain closed. If the TOS were not as it is, you might find a coherent argument for a more nuanced view. Not that my differs significantly, per se, but it's not as simple as it seems. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 10:51:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears What would make a person closed minded is when they say anyone and everyone else who engages in that is sick, demented, etc and they are wrong to engage in that. No, that just makes them judgmental. If they additionally try to interfere, it makes them meddlesome. I am meddlesome; try to kick my cat, and you'll see what my shoe size is. But argue the point here, or in person, and I will hear you out and consider what you've said. I find it unlikely that your arguments for kicking my cat will hold water, but I will not count it as impossible. Until I am done pondering it, the shoe size remains an issue, though. There are things I've considered outright wrong at various points in my life that I now support. Who knows what my opinion on those things will be some years down the road? I am open to being convinced, but not too susceptible to persuasion. quote: i think people can be open minded to the point of idiocy where they will follow anyone and try everything under the sun with no thought to the effects - so being "very open minded" has its draw backs. That argument does not hold water. I will think about everything under the sun, and then some. But what I will actually try, will still depend on careful consideration. You will not hear me saying "that's just wrong" and actually meaning it. But you will clearly hear me saying "that's not for me" or "take it elsewhere" or the like. I choose what my values are, and I judge based on those and the objective facts at my disposal. I reject the notion that some things should not be considered, or that things have inherent value or inherent qualities about them beyond what we assign to them. Going by the standard metric for open-mindedness, I'm in the 99th percentile somewhere. Yet I am usually the last person to go overboard on trying everything under the sun, preferring to think it through first. quote: It's also not following familiar or standard patterns of thought - thinking outside the box for solutions. Bingo. Which requires you to tear down the walls of the box, thus rejecting "what you can't say" and "what you can't think," along with preset answers and so forth. Think it all through for yourself, and without a pre-formed opinion (at least not as anything more than a mere datum). Don't store your conclusions as decisions, but instead form them anew every time, based on the information you have available to you. That's where it's at. Thinking outside the box is delicious to some, and infuriating or at best incomprehensible to others. Health, al-Aswad.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 10:54:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I would like to add... that being open minded is not, by definition, a good thing. you can be open minded to the point of having no concrete...."values". you can end up drifting with whatever current pulls you Actually, being open minded does not imply having no values. It implies realizing that you create your values. Health, al-Aswad. For me, it's even more than creating my own values. Being open-minded means that i must be willing to question my values and to re-examine what i hold to be true and be open to the possibility that i might need to readjust my way of looking at things and my beliefs and my values from time to time, based on new information i receive and/or a new perspective resulting from a new experience. Having an open mind doesn't mean that i am accepting of anything and everything. It means that i don't automatically slam the door on things, just because it's something that's strange to my way of thinking or is contrary to what i believe to be true. It means that i have to be prepared to feel uncomfortable, squeamish, even troubled by something, as i give it some examination, before making a decision, one way or the other about it. Because change is often troubling and uncomfortable. But, change is a part of growth. slave joy Owned property of Master David

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/21/2007 11:27:07 PM)
Joy is similar to myself. For me open mindedness is simply being open to new information and experiences- even if (sometimes especially if) it leads to challenging my pre-existing notions and conclusions and forcing change. What most people seem to be describing here is what I call acceptance or tolerance. There's plenty of nice accepting and tolerant people in the scene who are completely closed minded. They have said "This is what I like and what I understand, I am fine with you doing what you want, but I am not interested in new things or listening to anyone who might try and bring information to me that I find disturbing to my current way of thinking"

BitaTruble -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/22/2007 12:02:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble On other subjects (adult consentuality) my mind is and will remain closed. If the TOS were not as it is, you might find a coherent argument for a more nuanced view. Not that my differs significantly, per se, but it's not as simple as it seems. Health, al-Aswad. I'm quite curious as to how you decided you know what my views are since I didn't state them. I only stated that on the subject of adult consentuality, my mind is closed and will remain so. How do you know that my views on the subject are not quite complex and highly nuanced already? Also, since you don't know my views, how do you know that your own do not differ in a significant way? What makes you think my views on the subject are at all simple? Is it not possible that I have given deep and thoughtful consideration to them over the course of several years and have simply .. made up my mind on the matter? Perhaps you can't speak to 'your' views because of the TOS, but you have no assurance at all that such effects me since .. you don't know my views. This is from my profile: I don't embrace SSC as a way to live ... I do believe in 'mostly' consensual. Now, if you can't discuss the subject without getting yourself moderated, I'll be happy to take it to email, but I would ask that you refrain from making assumptions about my views because I'd bet dollars to donuts that whatever you're thinking right now about 'my views' on the subject.. you're probably wrong and do keep in mind that I have already stated that my mind is and will remain closed on the matter. Oh and since tone of voice can't be 'heard' through this written medium, rest assured, I am chuckling on my end. [8D] Celeste

catize -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/22/2007 12:58:18 AM)
My definition of an open mind is a willingness to question my own thoughts and opinions. Are they simply parroted clichés or have I taken the time to find a valid rationale for what I feel and believe? Will my conclusions be defensible when questioned? Then it is important to explore the distinction: is it right or wrong only for me or do I truly believe it is right or wrong universally.

chellekitty -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/22/2007 1:02:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize My definition of an open mind is a willingness to question my own thoughts and opinions. Are they simply parroted clichés or have I taken the time to find a valid rationale for what I feel and believe? Will my conclusions be defensible when questioned? Then it is important to explore the distinction: is it right or wrong only for me or do I truly believe it is right or wrong universally. well, this certainly makes it easier...ditto...i was just about to post just that... chelle

catize -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/22/2007 1:13:14 AM)
quote: well, this certainly makes it easier...ditto...i was just about to post just that... chelle I’m thinking that since you agree with me you are very open minded! [:D]

Aswad -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/22/2007 6:31:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble Oh and since tone of voice can't be 'heard' through this written medium, rest assured, I am chuckling on my end. [8D] I did make an assumption, which may very well be mistaken. If it is, you have my apologies for that. Take it as a compliment. I meant to imply that you have displayed enough willingness to listen to well thought out arguments in the past that I did not think you would be unable to absorb similar arguments regarding that subject. I may be wrong in that regard, in which case chuckles are in order, but I like you well enough to assume otherwise. Again, my apologies for any mistaken assumptions. Health, al-Aswad.

MidMichCowboy -> RE: Being open minded ? (12/22/2007 6:40:45 AM)
I'm considered very liberal and open minded. I don't judge people based on sexual preference, religion, race or even politics (that one is hard for me). I am pretty open minded about peoples lifestyle as long as its truly consenting and doesn't harm (seriously) anyone. But, I do have one big prejudice. Idiots. I'm not talking those who are mentally challenged or those who have disabilities. I'm talking about those who have the capacity for thought, but remain close minded. I don't like those who use people. I've ran into some who become a Dom/Domme not because they love and respect their subs, but because they use them and throw them away. Its all about them, not the matching of needs. I've seen people with low self esteem used and abused in the name of the lifestyle. Sorry, but I don't have to respect that. While I feel sorry for those who let this happen to them and wonder why they can't realize it, I have no respect for those that take advantage of that situation. Does that make me close minded? I don't know and quite honestly, I don't care. I retain the right to make judgments while keeping an open mind to new situations.

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