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.appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 1:23:12 PM

RCdc

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I am sitting here watching TV. And on it is a programme about Eval Kineval. Now, he was a thrill seeker - a man who pushed his limits and who was a showman. He had 400 fractures, 37 bones broken over the years, liver damage, lung disease - had a stroke but he was continuing with the interview because he did not want to 'let people down'.
It set a thought in my head.

I suppose, that this question is mainly to masochists and I posted it in 'general' because any orientation can be masochistic - and I didn't want to limit the answers anyway.
In an interview in the 70's, he stated -

quote:

What hurts the average person doesnt hurt me -

So my question is - do masochists appriciate and embrace that they aren't 'average'. And if not, why not?(For the object of this question - 'average' is defined as something without or lacking special distinction, quality or ability.) I have posed it to masochists in general and particular, as it related to Kinevals statement, but anyone can of course answer from their POV.

the.dark.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 1:41:28 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

do masochists appriciate and embrace that they aren't 'average'

Well, using the definition that you gave; No, I don't appreciate or embrace that I am not 'average'. If it must be known, I really do not like my masochism nor do I embrace it in the sense that you mean. If I could turn it off forever, I would do so quite happily.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 1:42:56 PM

laurell3

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I don't want to miss the point of the thread but on the whole scheme of life and even in the bdsm arena I don't look at whether I'm average or not, I am me and an individual.

However, I do want to point out that despite the fact that I am a masochist, it does in fact "hurt me". I choose and even embrace and prefer for it to, but many things I seek do hurt, I just enjoy the mental aspect of that pain.

I don't pretend to answer for all people identifying as masochists. There are wide varities on how they process or deal with pain.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 2:26:22 PM

sweetnurseBBW

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I don't consider myself average or above average because I am a masochist. I am just me. I do enjoy being a masochist and do embrace it but I do not think it makes me more than average. It is just something I am and enjoy.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 2:34:39 PM

spanklette

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I don't think that I've ever thought about being a masochist on terms of average, below average, or above average. Maybe if I used my masochism for something extraordinary...have you ever seen that video of the guys pulling the buses along with their penises? That could be considered above average or below average...depending on your perspective.

I guess, it's not a quantitative quality for me...it's either something I experience differently or something that I respond to differently.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 3:22:14 PM

julietsierra

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I'm not sure if I'm average, above average or below average. What I do know is that whereever I fall on that continuum, it's not due to my masochism.What I do know is that I really hate the idea that mediocre is good enough. And what I do know is that I like me - average, above average or below average - and that I continue to strive to be better.

Now, does that make me average, above average or below average? I have no idea.

As far as my ability to process pain, I'd have to say that the difference for me is that if I'm hurt non-consentually (stubbing my toe on the furniture, falling on the ice, cutting my finger etc), it hurts like hell and is NO fun. And when someone hurts me consensually, I process it as intensity and I love every minute of it.

And I have no idea if that constitutes average or not. I just know I love what I do.

juliet

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 4:13:57 PM

Prinsexx

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I don't just simply embrace that I am not average. I have always known it. It was, as a child, a feeling of being on the outside looking in.
The details of my very very early sexualisation aren't appropriate here (even here I have been given repsonses that my childhood disclosures have made others feel icky.....)
but I suppose if I were to look for a moment in my llife that could have destroyed me and did not it is one that I will outline in short here.
This was the event that could have had me crumble into despair....but it is an event that I 'turned' around into the positive ....
at 13 nearly 14 I was date raped. Actually it was date gang banged. It took me many many years to recover the memory. The process felt like trying to rememebr a dream....or rather have the dream impress itself upon one's psyche, you know how a dream does this throughout the day, but this happened over a period of more than thrity years.
I think most of the memory has come back. But it forms the basis of my predilections now. Pain, humiliation, enforced submission, group sex, raw sexualised activity during which I blipped into and out of awareness during the 'session' itself.
And you know what? I remained proud, I remained aware enough to know at that time that my submission was my power. And I was special.
Would I be submissive if that date rape hadn't occured? I believe so. Because I believe I was born submissive to men and knew it at the time. What I did and what I allowed them to do (I had no choice anyway) was skilful and special and I suppose I will go on replicating its qualities, despite the apparent risks and danger that others might perceive I submit myself to. It's masochism and tjhe feeling translats itself as 'he hurts me therefore he needs me/wants me/needs me/loves me/wants to contain me/wants to own me...any or all of those. I have to think of it as a special quality and empower myself and deal with the drop, the separation, the often lack of aftercare, the sharp/hard/pressing/bruising peak experiences fading into the responsibilities of everyday life.
Thank you for the inspiring opening post.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 12/23/2007 4:19:21 PM >

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 5:39:03 PM

chellekitty

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i don't think that average is the appropriate word because of the value connotations people associate with it, as other people have mentioned, if you are not average then you are above average or below average....rather, i know that i am not normal....i don't feel pain like other people feel pain...and when i do feel pain, i don't have the same reaciton as other people...yes, i recognize it...i don't know if "appreciate" is the right word either....it certainly makes it more difficult to get off...i like to hurt, it takes a lot to hurt me, there aren't a lot of people (at least that i am willing to let around here) who are willing to go that far to give me the kind of pain i need....so....it kinda sucks...but i do recognize that it's not normal....

chelle

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 6:02:54 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

So my question is - do masochists appriciate and embrace that they aren't 'average'. And if not, why not?(For the object of this question - 'average' is defined as something without or lacking special distinction, quality or ability.) I have posed it to masochists in general and particular, as it related to Kinevals statement, but anyone can of course answer from their POV.

If that is the working definition I would say that being a masochist is "average" because I do not think that being masochistic makes one especially distinctive, able, or being a quality.... it is just what it is....

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/23/2007 6:03:15 PM >

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 6:08:00 PM

cherrypez

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I do not consider myself not average. Being a masochist for me does not change the fact that pain still hurt, I just enjoy the sensation of the pain.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 6:28:24 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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I'm not sure I understand the question (and the way you create thread titles always confuses me).

Some do, some don't of course.

The interesting thing for me is that I actually have a higher PAIN threshhold than a fair number of masochists I know. They simply have a much higher pain to pleasure threshhold than I do.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/23/2007 6:28:31 PM

catize

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I am not willing to risk broken bones or internal injuries in the pursuit of pain.
I appreciate my masochism when I’m with a sadist who understands what I need and accepts my limitations of how much I can/will endure.
My perception of the “Eval one” is not admiration. Some may think he was brave, I consider it stupidity; but heh, I don’t ‘get’ boxing either.
There are some who consider masochism as a do-me mind set which makes it a hindrance at times.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/24/2007 4:19:42 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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No one here is average in any sense of the word sorry and why someone thinks there is a below or an above average is beyond me because it isn’t a test where you are scoring points, in this case. It's a simple fact that on the bell curve of standard distribution we are nowhere near the middle. People shouldn’t take purely statistical terms and attach positive or negative connotations to them because I don’t think that is what the op was asking.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 12/24/2007 4:22:03 AM >

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/24/2007 6:37:37 AM

RayvenGoddess

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I can't answer for the masos out there as I am a sadist, but I don't think that my joy and excitement at being talented in causing pain (in the consenting of course) makes me "non-average" (either above or below). When I think about all of the people in the world there are millions throughout time who have been able to take on great amount of pain and suffering and preserver, and a the same time there have been millions who are very good at causing those things as well. Only a handful from each get noticed because of their "non-average" qualities.

Oh and by the way, I just wanted to add that I have always thought that as an individual Eval was average. It may not help that I grew up around a lot of dumb-ass guys who could make the guys from Jackass look like the boy in the bubble, but I thought that all Eval really had going for him was that he had a better mind for marketing and promoting himself than other wife-beating, drug-abusing, red-necked dare-devils like him.

< Message edited by RayvenGoddess -- 12/24/2007 7:05:49 AM >

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/24/2007 9:09:49 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
No one here is average in any sense of the word sorry and why someone thinks there is a below or an above average is beyond me because it isn’t a test where you are scoring points, in this case. It's a simple fact that on the bell curve of standard distribution we are nowhere near the middle. People shouldn’t take purely statistical terms and attach positive or negative connotations to them because I don’t think that is what the op was asking.

How do you know we aren't near the curve?

I drive a car that is extremely common and average. My salary is very average. I like tv shows which millions of others also enjoy.

And when it comes to food, well I'm about as average and standard as they come. I often judge how innovative a food is based on how inclined I am to like it.

While there's no clear standard, we can all approximate pretty well what is considered "average" for a particular culture. And I'm very average for the modern American/Western European in very many ways.

Why would you want to tell me that I can't be average?

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/24/2007 9:53:58 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
How do you know we aren't near the curve?

I drive a car that is extremely common and average. My salary is very average. I like tv shows which millions of others also enjoy.

And when it comes to food, well I'm about as average and standard as they come. I often judge how innovative a food is based on how inclined I am to like it.

While there's no clear standard, we can all approximate pretty well what is considered "average" for a particular culture. And I'm very average for the modern American/Western European in very many ways.

Why would you want to tell me that I can't be average?

quote:

What hurts the average person doesnt hurt me -

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
So my question is - do masochists appriciate and embrace that they aren't 'average'. And if not, why not?

I’m sure you drive a pretty average car, get paid an average wage, go on an average holiday but those attributes are not what the op was measuring in terms of being beyond average. I may be wrong in this but that was my interpretation.

My reply was limited to the measure of the tolerance of pain. I see people dangling from the ceiling with hooks in their back and I don’t consider that to be average pain tolerance, so my answer was a simple one in those terms. I didn’t understand this question to a certain extent but I replied in accordance with how I understood it. Maybe there was hidden depths to this question and I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t swim deep enough to realise them.

Maybe the question was: does pain change the more you experience it, do you get desensitised to it in a way that other 'normal' people don't have the opportunity to but would otherwise, given the chance. It is after all your body telling your brain something is wrong and we can fool our minds in other ways, so why not the sensation of pain? How do I know that the pain I feel is similar to the pain you feel when we both suffer the same act?

Are we average in terms of tolerance to pain: obviously not. This question never really fascinated me as much as the question of why not. Is the pain worse for those that don’t choose it and why does anyone choose it anyway? From a philosophical standpoint you can’t prove anyone’s pain is any worse than anyone else’s. Therefore how can you prove a masochist would enjoy a similar pain to those that feel that don’t enjoy pain? Hard to explain really but so is the fact that our eyes pick up wavelengths and our brain interprets them as colours. So our skin picks up sensations and our brain decides if those sensations are pleasurable or not.

Regards
Maybe

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/24/2007 1:01:24 PM

eyesopened

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm not sure I understand the question (and the way you create thread titles always confuses me).

Some do, some don't of course.

The interesting thing for me is that I actually have a higher PAIN threshhold than a fair number of masochists I know. They simply have a much higher pain to pleasure threshhold than I do.

i generally agree with LA...(does that make me average?) But then this question was for masochists and i am not one. i tolerate clover clamps with weights but they bring me no pleasure other than the pleasure of my suffering makes my Master very pleased. He's the type of sadist who enjoys my real suffering. Like LA i have a much lower pain to pleasure threshhold than a masochist. Does that make me average? And if i am average, the real question is... does that make me less? i don't think so.

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/24/2007 7:56:48 PM

InkedMaster

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I met Kineval about 10 years ago, what a tool.

Okay, so do masochists appreciate and embrace they are not average, and if not, why not?

We have defined average to mean in this context, without or lacking special distinction, quality or ability. I think the question put this way implies that masochists are above average, since they are not average and I doubt it was implied they are below average. If we substitute the word common or ordinary, in my mind it doesn't imply better than, just different and I really think that was intention of the question. As for Kinevals quote "What hurts the average person doesn't hurt me" I think kineval really felt he was above the common man, my personal impression of him after our conversation was "what an arrogant cocky mother fucker". But he was a Showman, he was a fantastic Promoter...He just couldn't land worth a shit...

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/25/2007 12:17:28 AM

adoracat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InkedMaster

I met Kineval about 10 years ago, what a tool.

Okay, so do masochists appreciate and embrace they are not average, and if not, why not?

We have defined average to mean in this context, without or lacking special distinction, quality or ability. I think the question put this way implies that masochists are above average, since they are not average and I doubt it was implied they are below average. If we substitute the word common or ordinary, in my mind it doesn't imply better than, just different and I really think that was intention of the question. As for Kinevals quote "What hurts the average person doesn't hurt me" I think kineval really felt he was above the common man, my personal impression of him after our conversation was "what an arrogant cocky mother fucker". But he was a Showman, he was a fantastic Promoter...He just couldn't land worth a shit...

*laughs*

when evel kinevel broke all those bones in the astrodome so many years ago, my granny was his nurse. the first thing she told him was that he was a "damned fool" for taking such risks with his life.

he asked that she be his nurse on every shift she worked.

kitten

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RE: .appriciatingnonaveragequalities. - 12/27/2007 10:11:59 AM

RCdc

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First, thanks to everyone who replied.
Second, I am now kind of focusing on InkedMasters Post because it is the most compact and easiest to respond to for the sake of keeping things short and hopefully will expand my thoughts, but I will mention a couple of other posts as well.

I was more interested in masochists answering, because I saw a paralel between the pain they enjoy and the showman kinival enjoyed.
As for using the word 'average' - I don't personally believe in an average of anything. If we are working from a place where we believe that every single person in the world does possess something another doesn't and is therefore unique - every single person is not average. I don't know about kineval being a 'cocky mother fucker', but I do believe he didn't see himself as 'average'. Not better than or more than, just 'special' and it was embracing the specialness of oneself I was interested in seeing if people did, particularly masochists due to the myth that being given pain is some sort of negative abuse. I can see where using the word 'common' may have been a lot more appropriate, but for the sake of the phrase/quote used, average fitted. And yes - He really couldn't land!

I find it fascinating that people did jump on the 'morethan- less than' thoughts as that wasn't even mentioned in the post. I loved laurells explaination that she is individual and to me that was a great point and I think she kind of got the issue and thanks for that - as did IM also and big thanks to maybe who made a kickass point on the whole non-point structure.

I disagree with julia - I do believe that in the context of 'average' masochists aren't 'average' because they do contain a distinctive quality - otherwise they wouldn;t be a subsection or 'culture' - like I said, I believe in human uniqueness, so anyone whether they define themselves as a mas or not is not average by the definition I gave. No one is. But the main question is whether they embraced it or not.

the.dark.

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