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RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 7:39:14 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Is this possably a "sign" of a newbee who is playing with something they themselves are not sure of. ??


I get a sense that this is a woman who has incredible insight and empathy, which regardless of real time "hands on" experience puts her years ahead of a lot of people engaging in BDSM activities.

This shows that she understands that place as a femdom, and knows how complex it can be in your own head. It shows a genuine desire to not muddle or destroy momentum by adopting clumsy "scene rules" or protocol people love to flaunt.

A "newbie" wouldn't even "get" what she's talking about. They'd just stumble along.

A lot of people have already given good practical advice. I generally hate "checking in" at all when I am on a roll. I also don't like safewords as stop-start-stop-start codes, I prefer good old fashioned communication. If I *do* feel compelled to check in for some reason, something I do for my own momentum is reduce it to just a whisper when I ask him. For me, it turns it almost into a kind of "sidebar" that allows me to get right back to what I'm focussing on. At that point I may give a temporary "safeword" type signal, just for the next few moments, like putting something in his hand and saying "drop this if you can't take any more." I don't make that a safeword or stop signal for all time, but just for those moments.

Even when you know someone very well, sometimes they can mask reactions -- or, you find yourself with someone that knows how to push *your* buttons, and you can't tell if he's indulging you or if he's sincere, or if it's just the perfect mixture.

When you talk to someone afterwards, that's when you get the gems of knowledge. Take note of his reactions along the way, then ask him later, "When you were <describe his behavior>, what were you feeling? Was that pushing you too hard?"

Regardless, you still have to be on high alert. Always trust your instincts.

Akasha

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(in reply to Kinkypupper)
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RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 8:54:58 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: saret
But asking "Are you ok? Is that too much?" every few minutes during a scene can break the flow, and blur the dominant persona I project.
How do you ask "are you ok" without using those words? What are subtle signs a sub is not, beyond obvious signs of exhaustion?
-S-
I don't ask "are you okay" often (not that I think there's anything wrong with asking), because I try to stay atuned to the person, watch the person carefully, and always talk about/hope he isn't the strong silent type... In fact, I tend to find very silent types kind of boring, to the point that I'll be harsher than usual to get a reaction out of them. M


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(in reply to saret)
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RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 9:03:57 PM   
lupinesub


Posts: 17
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Austin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

I would try using the three colors as safe words, green, yellow, and red... discuss with the submissive and decide on the meaning you both will place on the three colors... then when you are concerned simply ask for a color. Afterwards I would also discuss the scene and get some input from the submissive about anything that could have been done differently.

I'm glad you seek advise, to me it shows that you take what you do very seriously.

Jewel


This is exactly the method I'm used to and prefer to use. I personally don't like to talk during a scene, it makes lose my concentration and sometimes my headspace. However, simply being asked "Color?" is perfect, I can give a one word answer to it.

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
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RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/20/2005 10:13:17 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: saret

Ok -

I'm the first person who harps about being ethical and responsible about BDSM. I learn my toys before I play, pay attention to body language and safewords.

But asking "Are you ok? Is that too much?" every few minutes during a scene can break the flow, and blur the dominant persona I project.
How do you ask "are you ok" without using those words? What are subtle signs a sub is not, beyond obvious signs of exhaustion?

-S-

When you start, you don't. I think in the beginning you have to sacrifice a little bit of flow and intensity to the gods of common sense and getting to know the person.

Once you KNOW them, then you can rely on cues and past history. But that takes time.

(in reply to saret)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/21/2005 7:21:54 AM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Look at body language, pupil dilation, tendency to swoon, etc. If you notice any of these, take a break. I'd recommend asking your sub outside of play what things make them feel like they're not doing so good. Also, have a safe word and safe signal (for if they're gagged), and insist that they use it if needed.

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~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
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(in reply to saret)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/21/2005 1:08:15 PM   
Ephiny


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Being asked "are you ok" most certainly breaking the mood. Since my Sir is certainly has not been given the gift of ESP I use subtle hints to let him know my mental and physical state for the safety of myself and him. Prolly the #1 thing I do to let him know my physical and mental state is by using my voice and making sounds. You have the normal pleasure sounds but when I start be pushed toward my edge I change to pitch (higher) of my moans, whimper, and occasionally cry. On top of that when I get to my breaking point my body naturally trembles which is also a sign that he needs to back off a bit. Overall I pretty much depend on my body language to communicate to him and it has worked for me thus far. I have been pushed hard but yet to use my 'safe word'. Hope that helps =)

(in reply to saret)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/21/2005 1:50:43 PM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I see a lot of focus on safewords and safesignals here, but I don't agree. The dominant is in control, hence responsible. Safewords are fine, but they don't always work, and the dom is still responsible. Many subs have an intense desire to please that overrides their sense of what's going on, on others reach a place where they simply can't safe-out. And, of course, there are subs with some traumatic issues that really can't use safewords at all. It's easy enough to advise such people against playing, but it isn't realistic- so the dom is responsible. The dom has to pay attention, learn what they're doing, learn to read the signs of the individual they are dealing with. It might take a little time, might involve a little awkwardness. So be it.

Cane

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/21/2005 2:52:44 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

I see a lot of focus on safewords and safesignals here, but I don't agree. The dominant is in control, hence responsible. Safewords are fine, but they don't always work, and the dom is still responsible. Many subs have an intense desire to please that overrides their sense of what's going on, on others reach a place where they simply can't safe-out. And, of course, there are subs with some traumatic issues that really can't use safewords at all. It's easy enough to advise such people against playing, but it isn't realistic- so the dom is responsible. The dom has to pay attention, learn what they're doing, learn to read the signs of the individual they are dealing with. It might take a little time, might involve a little awkwardness. So be it.

Cane


I mostly agree with you. I am a great believer in the "Slowley, slowley" approach and the "When in doubt, Dont" method of things in general.


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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CitizenCane)
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RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/22/2005 12:07:45 AM   
MsPurrmeow


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
When you start, you don't. I think in the beginning you have to sacrifice a little bit of flow and intensity to the gods of common sense and getting to know the person.

Once you KNOW them, then you can rely on cues and past history. But that takes time.


Thanks EmeraldSlave. This is a very level-headed way fo saying something very important. "Scenes" in all likelihood will not be all-encompassing experiences in the beginning. Employing some humility in the learning stages usually pays off positively in later days. No amount of ego-stroking is worth ignoring basic common sense.

Purr

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/22/2005 12:38:22 AM   
slatyb


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Is this possably a "sign" of a newbee who is playing with something they themselves are not sure of. ??


That was really patronizing and unhelpful, not to mention badly spelled and poorly punctuated.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/22/2005 1:02:32 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slatyb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Is this possably a "sign" of a newbee who is playing with something they themselves are not sure of. ??


That was really patronizing and unhelpful, not to mention badly spelled and poorly punctuated.


I agree with your "patronising " and "unhelpfull" comment slatyb, however, was it realy necessary to critisise the spelling and punctuation? To me that was both unnecessary and on poor taste. Not everyone here is an english major and many fine honourable people who post magnificient posts make spelling and punctuation errors.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to slatyb)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/22/2005 3:17:54 AM   
slatyb


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
I agree with your "patronising " and "unhelpfull" comment slatyb, however, was it realy necessary to critisise the spelling and punctuation? To me that was both unnecessary and on poor taste. Not everyone here is an english major and many fine honourable people who post magnificient posts make spelling and punctuation errors.


It was a possibly weak attempt to humorously echo kp's smugly superior attitude toward the original poster. I have neither the time or interest to correct every CM post. But I think it is common courtesy to make an effort to spell correctly. When posts contain repeated misspellings, I figure it just some crap from a wannabee and ignore it and everything else from that poster. Any real doms or subs would be more considerate of the other CM users, and take half a minute to run a spell check before posting.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/22/2005 8:23:31 PM   
saret


Posts: 71
Joined: 4/27/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice everyone!

(in reply to saret)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/22/2005 8:42:38 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slatyb

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
I agree with your "patronising " and "unhelpfull" comment slatyb, however, was it realy necessary to critisise the spelling and punctuation? To me that was both unnecessary and on poor taste. Not everyone here is an english major and many fine honourable people who post magnificient posts make spelling and punctuation errors.


It was a possibly weak attempt to humorously echo kp's smugly superior attitude toward the original poster. I have neither the time or interest to correct every CM post. But I think it is common courtesy to make an effort to spell correctly. When posts contain repeated misspellings, I figure it just some crap from a wannabee and ignore it and everything else from that poster. Any real doms or subs would be more considerate of the other CM users, and take half a minute to run a spell check before posting.


Interesting perspective and IF this was a perfecr world, I'd agree with you. However this is NOT a perfect world and not every one uses word for spelling and grammar checking. Many people spell a word how they pronounce it and when they mispronounce words, they are likely to misspell them too. Also have you concidered that many people here do not have english as their first language? Perhaps you could consider cutting people some slack or igroring them altogether. Personally, if i can get the gist of what they are saying, whilst I may mentally cringe with the spelling or grammar, it really doesnt matter.

BTW I'm not sure if you comments:
quote:

It was a possibly weak attempt to humorously echo kp's smugly superior attitude toward the original poster.

Were refering to my post or your comments. In either case no matter you are forgiven <tongue in cheek humour> Take care and enjoy. < tosses a can of Fosters toward slatyb>



_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to slatyb)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How to avoid "are you ok" ? - 8/23/2005 9:20:19 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Ok -

I'm the first person who harps about being ethical and responsible about BDSM. I learn my toys before I play, pay attention to body language and safewords.

But asking "Are you ok? Is that too much?" every few minutes during a scene can break the flow, and blur the dominant persona I project.
How do you ask "are you ok" without using those words? What are subtle signs a sub is not, beyond obvious signs of exhaustion?

-S-


I think this differs between someone you play with often, and those who you do pick-up scenes with.

Obviously, with someone you play with frequently, you'll get to know their personal signs and ticks; Sir will sometimes whisper in my ear a sort of 'are you ok' question, and I'll nod or shake my head. But it's rare that he feels the need to check that, and usually when we've gone particularly long or tried something new. Physically, as I'm sure you know, check pressure points, hands/feet if they are bound, breathing, etc, for physical distress.

As a bottom, I don't want a lot of interruption in a scene, so it's my preference to play with people who know me well and don't require a lot of interaction to know that I'm just fine.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to saret)
Profile   Post #: 35
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