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RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 12:56:04 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

*deep breath Berlin*
Hey, Anthro- (and everyone else out there in the Big, Bad World)-
Love is the deciding factor in my submisssion. Perhaps that makes me a slave to the heart, overly dramatic or just a bit silly, but keep in mind that I am **selectively submissive**. I can have sex without love, can have sex with love, but can not submit without love. That's how it applies to me.
Hope that was the answer you were looking for.
As Always
Berlin

Hello,

One of the main reasons I left the lifestyle was because I could not find that spark of love in the few relationships I had. Everybody was in such a hurry to meet and beat and go home, and the relationships I saw didnt seem to last.

This is why I am going so slow. I want to be in love again. To feel deeply for another. To cuddle to sleep at night clutching each other under a down comforter. To lean over her red and marked back and listen to the racing of her heart and the soft deep breathing of subspace. To listen to her squeal when I drop snow down the back of her her jacket. To chase her and give her a nice long spanking when she does the same thing to me. To have her gaze at me with adoring eyes as I order her cioppino and a nice glass of merlot. To buy her pretty things to wear and watch her shining eyes gaze at me as she tries them on and models them for me.

To look at her cell phone number pop up on my caller id box and feel a huge smile light up my face as I reach to pick up the phone, and to know that when my number pops up on her cell phone it will do the same thing for her.

I personally think love is what D/s is all about. Because the honesty and caring and trust and commitment in the relationship can be so much deeper, in my opinion, than it can in the vanilla world.

It could just be my opinion, and I suppose I will be lonely for a very long time if I am wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to MzBerlin)

Post #: 21

RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 1:43:59 PM

MzBerlin

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

Sinergy-
It's nice to hear (see?) that someone besides myself and a certain other someone who will go unnamed believe that a D/s relationship is best built on a foundation of romance. (Hope I interpreted you correctly.

)
As Always-
Berlin

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 22

RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 2:06:07 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

It's nice to hear (see?) that someone besides myself and a certain other someone who will go unnamed believe that a D/s relationship is best built on a foundation of romance. (Hope I interpreted you correctly. )
As Always-
Berlin

Hello,

Yes, you did interpret it correctly. Please give my regards to the certain other someone who will go unnamed (COSWWGU) if you would be so kind.

Thank you,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to MzBerlin)

Post #: 23

RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 3:42:30 PM

anthrosub

Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

*deep breath Berlin*
Hey, Anthro- (and everyone else out there in the Big, Bad World)-
Love is the deciding factor in my submisssion. Perhaps that makes me a slave to the heart, (snip) ...but can not submit without love. That's how it applies to me.
Hope that was the answer you were looking for.
As Always
Berlin

MzBerlin,
Your description of how you feel is very much the way i feel, too. Thanks for your words.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 24

RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 4:42:47 PM

SherriA

Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I personally think love is what D/s is all about. Because the honesty and caring and trust and commitment in the relationship can be so much deeper, in my opinion, than it can in the vanilla world.

I always have a problem with the notion that bdsm (or d/s if you prefer, to me it's all under the same umbrella) somehow means relationships are somehow better/deeper/more than relationships without it. That might be true for people who have twisted wiring like we do, but I don't think it's true for the population as a whole.

I know people who are utterly in love and completely committed with none of wiitwd involved. Hell, my grandparents were like that for 50+ years - totally, completely devoted to each other. I think 'nilla folks are just as capable of deep feelings as we are, they simply find a different route to them than we may choose.

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 25

RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 4:58:35 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: featheryOne

I forget that single people have perspectives which differ from those of couples. I only speak of my own perspective, which is usually based upon my own life experiences. I gave my perspective and certainly did not mean to insult anyone, if I did, my humble apologies.

Humbly,

feather

How very kind of you to clarify.

Thank you.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to featheryOne)

Post #: 26

RE: Love in D/s - 7/15/2004 5:10:34 PM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

I believe love is necessary from both aspects of the stool for a relationship to be fruitful and meaningful, though in most cases with Me and my subs it is more of a Fathers love and desire for what's best for their child. I have also experienced, though more rarely the culmination of a lover and a sub in one but the problem there stems from the natural desire to do what is best for ones self versus what is best for the training of an individual. In my actions My personal pleasure comes after My personal responsibilities to provide My children with the discipline they desire and deserve.

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 27

RE: Love in D/s - 7/16/2004 1:38:55 AM

MzBerlin

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I personally think love is what D/s is all about. Because the honesty and caring and trust and commitment in the relationship can be so much deeper, in my opinion, than it can in the vanilla world.

I would have to agree with you. For me, the D/s, PE, S/m- whatever is the push I need, that little 'spark' that was mentioned above.

quote:

Original- SherriA
I always have a problem with the notion that bdsm (or d/s if you prefer, to me it's all under the same umbrella) somehow means relationships are somehow better/deeper/more than relationships without it. That might be true for people who have twisted wiring like we do, but I don't think it's true for the population as a whole.

I know people who are utterly in love and completely committed with none of wiitwd involved. Hell, my grandparents were like that for 50+ years - totally, completely devoted to each other. I think 'nilla folks are just as capable of deep feelings as we are, they simply find a different route to them than we may choose.

I agree with you also, Sherri. I believe that everyone has different buttons. In all aspects of life, including they're sexuality and how they choose to integrate what they want into real life. My grandparents (who raised me) were so devoted to one another, and I can assure you that they were "nilla," and they just had a different 'dynamic.' They're buttons to feel safe, secure, needed, wanted, accepted, whatever, were met by different things. This forum has been very affirming for me. I hope that it does the same for y'all.

As Always
Berlin

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 28

RE: Love in D/s - 7/16/2004 6:05:04 PM

anthrosub

Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline

i'm sure some opinions will differ but i have to agree that this lifestyle seems to provide a more open channel to reaching into what makes the other tick. What i mean by that is in a vanilla relationship, interaction seems to be guided more by the accepted norms and mores. Getting to know someone really well can take a long time and correct me if i'm wrong but i think many people accept this as how things work. In BDSM however, there's the opportunity to focus with deliberate intensity and test while exploring (if that make sense). And if all this sounds erotic, i must state here i'm talking about the mind!

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to MzBerlin)

Post #: 29

RE: Love in D/s - 7/16/2004 7:44:11 PM

Tigresss

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline

It is not a *requirement* for me to love someone that I have sex with or play with, however, I have never played with someone that I didn't care about. Clear as mud??? lol Not loving someone on many levels and in many ways that I make a decision to enter a long-term and committed relationship with is simply unthinkable to me.

Tigress

(in reply to MzBerlin)

Post #: 30

RE: Love in D/s - 7/17/2004 12:29:55 AM

angelthighhighs

Posts: 104
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline

for me to be able to surrender to the extent that i need to, i must love that person. unfortunately i haven't been lucky enough to have them love me back...care about me, be fond of me yes...to actually love, no. knowing they haven't has left me empty..at times to tears because i need so much to be able to surrender fully but i can't if i know that person doesn't love me enough that he will do all in his power not to hurt me. i don't mean physically...

if love isn't involved, and i've had a couple that we were great friends, there was care and trust...i can submit...but not surrender fully which to me is different. i can submit with my body but leave my soul and heart out of it. i need to be able to surrender all, heart, body and soul for it to be fulfilling. to me there can't be D/s without love, although there can be BDSM.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to MzBerlin)

Post #: 31

RE: Love in D/s - 7/17/2004 1:07:36 PM

kiki blue

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA
I always have a problem with the notion that bdsm (or d/s if you prefer, to me it's all under the same umbrella) somehow means relationships are somehow better/deeper/more than relationships without it. That might be true for people who have twisted wiring like we do, but I don't think it's true for the population as a whole.

I agree. Kink relationships may be better for us, may give us what we need and be more fulfilling, but that doesn't mean it's any better than non kink relationships, as Sherri has already said.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to SherriA)

Post #: 32

RE: Love in D/s - 7/18/2004 11:08:24 PM

MzBerlin

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigresss

It is not a *requirement* for me to love someone that I have sex with or play with, however, I have never played with someone that I didn't care about. Clear as mud??? lol Not loving someone on many levels and in many ways that I make a decision to enter a long-term and committed relationship with is simply unthinkable to me.

Tigress

Tigress-
I think that we feel the same way about opposite things. I have never 'scened' with that being the intention of the encouter. I am very new to BDSM and all of its' facets. I am also relationship oriented. I am into committed romantic relationships with BDSM structure. I am not a monogomist, though.

I feel that (for me) I must submit to one before I explore. I've never been a good leader, but I'm a really good assistant.
As Always-
Berlin

(in reply to Tigresss)

Post #: 33

RE: Love in D/s - 7/19/2004 9:24:10 AM

MissSadistic2

Posts: 2
Joined: 1/2/2004
Status: offline

For myself I will not take a slave into my home that I can not love, or is not capable to love me. It is a must in my home to have love present and flowing freely. I do not want a robot for a slave, but a slave that is capable of loving and needing that love.

Hope this helps.

Miss S

(in reply to MzBerlin)

Post #: 34

RE: Love in D/s - 7/25/2004 6:44:43 PM

ladyangel

Posts: 58
Joined: 1/27/2004
Status: offline

I must say that I agree wholeheartedly, with what MzBerlin and also what MissSadistic2 have both stated.

I, too, will not take a slave into My home without some sort of connection. That connection- most likely- will have started as a spark, and the dynamics of the D/s relationship between Myself and the slave fueled that spark to an eternal flame. Or so I would hope.
I am an extremely passionate person- in every aspect. I also have a great capacity to love.....the dynamics of a D/s relationship are merely 1 means that I use to display, act upon, show, etc..My love for a slave.

Lady Angel

(in reply to MissSadistic2)

Post #: 35

RE: Love in D/s - 7/26/2004 7:04:20 PM

theroebabe

Posts: 3155
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline

Here's a follow up question for submissives in regard to the above...how many feel their need to express their submissive nature can best be achieved through feeling love for their Domme/Owner? In other words, do you feel that love drives your expression of submission or is it something else?

Well in my case, I need to have a connection with the person involved. I cannot just play with people I dont know. the one exception was my former dom where we played after just knowing each other a week. We spoke during the week and i did have a safe call for the night we played.

I think that the need to please for me is deeper when i care for the person and want to do my best, if it is someone that i do not have feelings for then i have a more casual attitude about submission. As in, he is not my dom i dont have to do what he says outside the scene. When i first got into the lifestyle, i would never have thought of saying no. Thankfully i have learned in some cases it is best to say no. So it is important for me to have a connection with my dom on an emotional level. It might not be love but it certainly must be respect.

(in reply to anthrosub)

Post #: 36

RE: Love in D/s - 7/27/2004 5:17:20 AM

kiki blue

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: theroebabe
Here's a follow up question for submissives in regard to the above...how many feel their need to express their submissive nature can best be achieved through feeling love for their Domme/Owner? In other words, do you feel that love drives your expression of submission or is it something else?

I only submit to someone I'm in a relationship with, which means I will have built up a level of emotional intimacy first. I can and will do more when I am involved with someone that way.

quote:

Well in my case, I need to have a connection with the person involved. I cannot just play with people I dont know.

I tend to play with people I know, but am not involved with. The kinksters I socialise with, I've known most of them for years, but not all of them. I play with the ones I like as people.

quote:

I think that the need to please for me is deeper when i care for the person and want to do my best, if it is someone that i do not have feelings for then i have a more casual attitude about submission.

I can take more, and am willing to take more, when I allow someone else control of me during a scene. I'm not into pain, I don't get off on it or enjoy it, but I do like to play and I like to see what I can take (and I love the bruises). When I started playing again after my ex and I broke up, I didn't take as much as I knew I could've, because I just didn't want to. It hurt, I'd had my fun, I got some marks, we can stop now. When I play, it's just fun. It's not serious. I do like having someone else control the play, to push me, because I know I'll stop well before it's too much, just coz I can.

_____________________________

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to theroebabe)

Post #: 37

RE: Love in D/s - 7/27/2004 8:50:42 PM

basiasubrosa

Posts: 130
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline

Originally, i thought that i'd trust the more rhetorically gifted here to express the pro-love stance for me. After all, i have only been in love with one person, and only explored D/s within that relationship.

However, upon closer inspection, i feel that aspects of D/s have certainly been played out in non-love circumstances, too. I sing in a choir in which the director is a mild, modest, soft-spoken man who has an infamous reputation as a perfectionist slave-driver. Even people in other choirs in other cities fear his 'evil eye'. With no erotic nor romantic undercurrents whatsoever, working with him in choir and as his concert manager (i.e. personal slave) has been one of the most exhilerating experiences yet. One glance of satisfaction, one nod of acknowledgement, one kind word, one twitch of a smile, is enough to make me euphoric. I do not love him any more than i love humanity and all my friendly acquaintences. I do not lust after him, either. It could be any number of things-- respect, admiration, his musical prowess or quiet British reservation-- but good gracious heavens does that man push my sub buttons, whether or not he is aware of it. For me, at least, it seems very much like how others describe scene-specific T/b, only without the physical aspects, and, technically, without the kink.

Also, i must admit, if anyone-- anyone, regardless how undomly-- came along crooning Schumann in a rich velvety baritone voice, i would immediately melt into a puddle of nectar-sweetened jasmine green tea at his feet.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 38

RE: Love in D/s - 7/28/2004 3:10:12 AM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I'll say again (because it bears repeating) sex or play is sex or play. Anything "real" (how I hate that word) needs love (or deep like

)

In short I don't have love a woman to lick her. I do have to love a woman to give her a pedicure and not lick her. (Deep like will is also needed for me to run her vacuum cleaner.

)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to anthrosub)

Post #: 39

RE: Love in D/s - 7/28/2004 4:35:19 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyangel
I, too, will not take a slave into My home without some sort of connection. That connection- most likely- will have started as a spark, and the dynamics of the D/s relationship between Myself and the slave fueled that spark to an eternal flame. Or so I would hope.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I would never take a slave into my home without being in love with them. Then again, at 32, I’ve only ever agreed to live with one person. I’m very cautious about co-habitation and I see it as a huge commitment.

The circumstance under which I would take someone into my home is Love. Pure and simple. And I’ve found it before and I’ll find it again. And when it happens, it will be wonderful.

In the meantime, I do not feel I need to stay in my house waiting for love to come knocking at my door. I go out, I’m active, I meet people, I play. With the submissives that I play with, I share at the very least an affectionate relationship with, and some I love, but more in the sense you would love a friend. Not in that deep and romantic love. But then again, that is how I am with the people closest to me, whether they are at my feet or not.

But from what I’ve observed, I don’t think love is a requisite for D/s or M/s or S&M or Bondage, etc. I do however think it’s better when it’s present.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ladyangel)

Post #: 40

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