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My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 6:18:02 AM

charmdpetKeira

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Joined: 6/2/2007
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A lot of my thought process on this started because of the saying, “happiness comes from the inside”. It is a thought that did not sit too well with me, so I decided to inspect it further, in an attempt to understand why I felt that way.

I don’t believe it is meant literal, if it were, I should be able to derive happiness out of nothing. Since happiness is an emotion, and emotions are only internal indicators of whether we like or dislike something, I believe there has to be some type of occurrence to elicit emotion.

Moreover, I already knew the saying isn’t referring to emotions, but instead, perspective. While I know it is possible to change my perspective to see the “bright side”, I feel it is not always wise to do so.

For example, I can acknowledge I have a half empty glass of water, then change my perspective to, “my glass is half full”. Once the glass is empty I can say, “Well, at least I still have this nice glass”. I can even continue with the idea right to the end, where I am dying of thirst, decide to break the glass, slit my wrist to bleed out, be thankful it will be over soon, and I had the glass to use in doing so, but if my objective was to fill the pool…..

Also, having a broken glass, bleeding out, and dying of thirst, even though none will help me toward my goal of filling the pool, still are not “bad”. Nouns and verbs are neither good nor bad; they just are.

That being said, my new thoughts run along the lines of:

There is an upside and downside to everything so
Actions alone do not constitute good/bad, therefore,
Good/bad, right/wrong are more realistically gauged on a spectrum, of best to worst possible outcome, toward the achievement of a particular goal.

I am of the mind that I have three goals to work on; the story I make of myself, which those who know me in this world, will remember me by; my personal goals, mastering natural abilities and strengthening weaknesses; and self.

There are many things on this planet I can influence, very few I can control; the only one I can guarantee; is me.
My new "storyline" goal is to be responsible for, and toward myself, in light of others.

Goal for self is balance, derived from self-awareness.

The reason I posted this is to get opinions on how realistic my ideas are.

Happy New Year everyone.

Sincerely,
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

Post #: 1

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 6:32:21 AM

Alumbrado

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Happiness is as you say, an emotion, generated by brain chemistry. We still have the ability to interfere with the enjoyment of it, so the notion of an internal process allowing hapiness to get 'out' is not unreasonable.

Making goals about balance requires one to take the same approach... you cannot force yourself to be either happy or balanced, you can only give yourself permission.

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 2

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 7:00:28 AM

Rushemery

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Joined: 9/10/2007
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"I am of the mind that I have three goals to work on; the story I make of myself, which those who know me in this world, will remember me by; my personal goals, mastering natural abilities and strengthening weaknesses; and self."

Those are good goals, I wouldnt worry about how other people see you, I feel you have to change the way you see yourself before other people will and then most are too negitive to see the positive you have improved on, many people only care to see the negitive, so focus on yourself for yourself.
emotions can be controled I have always thought it is mind over matter but as I have aged I actually think they may be a good thing otherwise we wouldnt have them

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 3

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 7:17:59 AM

charmdpetKeira

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Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Happiness is as you say, an emotion, generated by brain chemistry. We still have the ability to interfere with the enjoyment of it, so the notion of an internal process allowing hapiness to get 'out' is not unreasonable.

I thought emotions are responses to thought and physical reactions are generated by brain chemistry.

The thing I noticed about emotions, while they can tell us that we like or dislike something, they can’t tell us why we like or dislike it. My objective is to use emotions as a tool in deciding on whether or not I am in line with my goal, not as my map.

After all, just because I don’t like something, does not mean it is not in line with my goal.

quote:

Making goals about balance requires one to take the same approach... you cannot force yourself to be either happy or balanced, you can only give yourself permission.

I agree it can’t be forced, furthermore, I don’t advocate trying to force it. I believe if I am experiencing a troubling emotion, it is up to me to identify why I am troubled; in effect making me an active participant in changing my prospective. Taking the time to figure it out will help in avoiding repeat reactions; something I refer to as emotional trigger responses and in becoming more aware of realities.

I am not trying to control my emotions, I am working on understanding my thought process.

It appears to me, finding balance entails sorting out emotions, brought on by thought possesses.

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 4

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 7:49:51 AM

charmdpetKeira

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Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rushemery

Those are good goals,

Thank you.

quote:

I wouldnt worry about how other people see you, I feel you have to change the way you see yourself before other people will and then most are too negitive to see the positive you have improved on, many people only care to see the negitive, so focus on yourself for yourself.

My posting this is more in light of understanding one of my weaknesses, than acceptance.

A lot of my understanding has come from reading the posts on these message boards; lots of good stuff here. I consider bringing it back here as check toward balance.

I have come to the conclusion, as long as I am a member of society; my actions have an affect on those I encounter. “It ain’t all about me.”

How I affect them is up to them, the method I use is up to me and reliant on my goal.

quote:

emotions can be controled I have always thought it is mind over matter but as I have aged I actually think they may be a good thing otherwise we wouldnt have them

I agree emotions are valuable, have purpose, but I found they were being used to steer the ship, instead of as a guide, which I now believe they were intended as.

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to Rushemery)

Post #: 5

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 8:36:27 AM

dawntreader

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Goal for self is balance, derived from self-awareness.

The reason I posted this is to get opinions on how realistic my ideas are.

Happy New Year everyone.

Sincerely,
k

Greetings k,
Excellent thoughts :-)
It sounds like to me that you have started the most wonderful journey of all...knowing yourself. As a fellow hiker of this same path i wish you all the best with it!

my quote for the day is

"True knowledge is the knowledge of our own nature. Know yourself."
Swami Vivekanandia
peace and strength for the journey,
j

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 6

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 9:16:08 AM

charmdpetKeira

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Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Greetings k,
Excellent thoughts :-)
It sounds like to me that you have started the most wonderful journey of all...knowing yourself. As a fellow hiker of this same path i wish you all the best with it!

my quote for the day is

"True knowledge is the knowledge of our own nature. Know yourself."
Swami Vivekanandia
peace and strength for the journey,
j

Thank you very much j, to you as well.

I really like the quote, very fitting.

I agree it is an amazing journey. I am finding, some of the ideals I held, at a fairly young age, are rather impressive; even though the assessment of an experience was inaccurate.

I think this is probably true for most people, as I believe it is a time when our thoughts are most pure; with the least amount of environmental conditioning, or having been effected by experience.

I also find it interesting how the more I understand myself, the more the appearance of outside influences changes, which in turn, causes more change inside.

Best wishes,

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 7

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 12:26:41 PM

popeye1250

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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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I try to keep those kind of things as simple as possible.
For me "ethics" involves "The Golden Rule" treating people as I'd like to be treated, and don't lie, cheat and steal like they do in Washington.
Self esteem comes from *accomplishment* not from all these rediculous "feel good" programs that they have in the public schools these days.
With that crap we end up with young kids with tremendous egos and hair triggers at the least bit of a slight. But they don't know History or Geography! But, they have a very high opinion of themselves! No working in the mailroom for them, they want to go directly to the CEO's office!
We see the same twisting of ethics in the "U.N." and in Universities lately with this, "human rights" B.S.
You get know nothing "perfessors" proclaiming "human rights" for everyone in the world only they never have the answer as to just "who" is going to enforce those "human rights" and more importantly pay for them. (Presumably "The West" would pay for the rest of the world in their scenario?)
And, they would impose their brand of Western ethics on different peoples whether they wanted them or not!
Talk about s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g Ethics!
And of course it would *always* be "someone else" who would be doing the paying and enforcing. Never them!
Since we in the West already have a handle on that "human rights" thang I suggest that those people who advocate that B.S. take their show on the road to non-Western countries.
If "human rights" mean whatever those socialists say they mean how can they really mean anything at all?
There's an old saying in the Teaching profession; "Teach, don't Preach." That's why we have job descriptions and syllabus's.
I have an enourmous amount of respect for those in the teaching professions but, just like in the rest of society you'll get people in there who use it for their own twisted or even criminal ends like the infamous Ward "Tonto" Churchill.
Funny how they try to twist ethics and "human rights" together.
Like if I was in N.H. minding my own business and living my life how can they say it was my fault that a bunch of people in Ruwanda 6,000 miles away started hacking each up with machetes?
Was I to quit my job and go into the military (again); how about (them?) Or would they go for a "deferrment" again like they did in the 1960's?
If a bunch of people in Switzerland became billionaires I'd presumably share in that wealth under the socialists scenario?
If Ethics can mean "anything" then they mean nothing.
I just don't think it's up to (me) to "provide" people in foreign countries with (their) "human rights".
Those people are (responsable) for their own "human rights."
Charmed, you sound like you're getting a good handle on your own happiness.
One thing to remember is that everyone is responsible for their own happiness!
You, are the one who chooses to be happy or sad despite outside influences.
And, you, are not responsible for someone else's happiness.
If someone else wants to be miserable then there's nothing you or I can do about it.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 8

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 2:52:54 PM

Termyn8or

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Thing to remember K is that emotions are optional. It took me over forty years to learn this. But it is true, and I can prove it. In life you will find stimulii that will impel you to feel an emotion, but nothing can compel you to feel anything.

As I said I can prove it, and though I have said it before here, it would be too much PITA to find it now, but here is said proof, without cites or quotes, as they are not needed.

You are in a boxing ring. Your opponent is kicking your ass. You might get your dander up, get that second wind, get uppity and come up duking it out. But are you angry at your opponent ? No.

That is the difference. When I was younger we used to spar, slapbox and work out in ways would blow your mind. We were practically indestructable. My buddy kicked me twenty feet across the room and I got up, ran back and said "do it again". You don't figure I was angry at the time do you ? Hell no.

That attitude prevades my life now. I have had things happen to me that would blow your mind, and because I did not get pissed off and thought it out the outcome was much better, i.e. that I am not in prison. Things weren't always that way though, I spent a fortune buying myself out of trouble a long time ago. I look back and wonder why I couldn't have learned this sooner.

Congrats on your personal growth, there is no replacement for it.

Let's say years ago someone fell through the screen of my bigscreen TV, I would get my gun. Today, no. It ain't worth it. They might owe me $400 now, but killing them is not going to get me my money.

Why why couldn't I be like this twenty years ago ?

And that doesn't mean I am a wimp now, far from it. A couple of years ago a buddy called in trouble. I brought two carloads (actually a car and a pickup truck) of guys ready to bust some heads. Anger ? No, but when they start throwing rocks at your olady, who I know and like, and who treats me good I can't let them get away with it.

Will I ever do violence again ? Probably, but it will be well thought out and designed to solve the problem, not make it worse. But these fucking punks were bullies. When there were six of them and one of him, they were really brave, when there were six of them and four of us they ran. Pieces of shit and I hope the lesson was permanent.

And the word got out "when this dude calls people they show up". And it was not the police. When you call the police you are telegraphing that you have noone else to call. It went well.

Nobody has to be a complete pacifist, we still have our personal beliefs and standards. When violence is not justified, don't do it. People who do are acting out of anger, and that is something I simply refuse to feel. It is MY choice you know.

And it is your's as well. You think I am mad when I bust some N's kneecap with my 350 Chevy camshaft ? No, I am sending a message. This is what is needed, then it is needed. Nothing more, nothing less. Skin color ? Doesn't mean shit. Throwing rocks, that means something.

Y'know, we'll never find the post, but this same guy, his olady's kid hit her. Not his kid, if so I would have never gotten the call. Yes I went and smacked him around. People chided me for returning violence with violence, and they had a point, but I have a point too.

I have gotten my ass kicked really bad, AND shot the same night IN THE FACE. I think that went a long way in making me not want to start fights. (specially with four guys when I am alone)

Was I angry ? No. Did I act angry ? Yes. I did my best, and even after the cops came they did not pay one bit of attention to me. I don't care if my words affected his attitude or that he was now afraid of me and won't hit Mom anymore, all I care is that he doesn't hit Mom anymore.

Her olman, a friend of mine was reluctant to take such action for fear of jail. But the kid only knows me as the Terminator, really. And he was the one in the back of the cop car, not me. Cold calculated action. He thought I was pissed off because that is the way he saw life, but I was not. I was doing what needed to be done.

So after two very unpleasant experiences with the Terminator, the kid and I get along fine. He is now working and paying towards the family bills. There have been no further episodes.

They say violence begets more violence, but I say sometimes the opposite is true. There are many stupid, misguided people out there, many of them young and strong. This is not the best situation to say the least. So what is to be done ?

One of the main tenets of the Protocols is that Man will not be governed by academic discussion, only violence and terrorization will work. And that is how the world is run. How can we expect the young to get a different message than reality ? That would be stupid anyway.

Even if you have to smack the kid around, you are just looking for him to stop doing something that is wrong. And what you have to realize about that situation is that I really did not hurt the kid, but his sense of losing my respect went a long way.

I think he now realizes that I was very careful not to hurt him, because I could've very badly. But because my anger was NOT under control, it was NONEXISTENT, I could pull it off. It really was good. It worked.

But there is a downside to this. Love is an emotion as well, and once you actually control yourself, you will find that you no longer fall head over heels, and there is no more love at first sight. Understand this, as you get rid of the negative, the positive goes as well. And that is permanent, it never comes back.This is a one way street.

Yes you can still feel, but being under concious control it is not the same. Lust loses it's luster even. It all changes, but getting in control is the best thing that could ever happen to a person. Understand it, if you choose.

Be well.

T

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 9

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/1/2008 3:35:09 PM

Rushemery

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Joined: 9/10/2007
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sometimes violence helps sometimes not, I have found when your indestructable there is always someone looking to take you down when you take down four next time its 5, 6 or 7 to one, walk out of the bar at night and scan the cars to see who is waiting for you or you start worring about someone doing a drive by and yours ums getting in the way, always taking the seat where you can see everyone or wearing boots out instead of a comphy pair of sneekers because if you kick someone it'll do more damage, waking up and going to work with broken bones in your hand, my last ten years have been peaceful but some of those habits never go away. I teach mine to fight with their elbows because the world isnt a nice place, defence only, I will let others decide whats ethical about violence but now I would rather be peaceful and let someone else to the rough stuff lol

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 10

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 9:13:24 AM

charmdpetKeira

Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I try to keep those kind of things as simple as possible.
For me "ethics" involves "The Golden Rule" treating people as I'd like to be treated, and don't lie, cheat and steal like they do in Washington.

I used to use the philosophy, “treat others the same as I would like to be treated”, but then it occurred to me not everyone deserves to be treated the same, so I added “until they treated me in a manner I would not treat them”. Eventually I realized not everyone likes being treated the same, so I started using, “live and let live”.

My point was though; I no longer believe there are “golden rules”, only “golden goals”.

The part about being responsible, in my OP, was an assessment of what I thought would be required of a person, whom wishes to be a participant of a society, which has the goal of liberty and justice for all.

quote:

Charmed, you sound like you're getting a good handle on your own happiness.

I don’t know about getting a handle on happiness, but it does help with being less stressed.

quote:

One thing to remember is that everyone is responsible for their own happiness!
You, are the one who chooses to be happy or sad despite outside influences.
And, you, are not responsible for someone else's happiness.
If someone else wants to be miserable then there's nothing you or I can do about it.

I’m still a bit messed up about how other people see this happiness stuff.

While I understand changing one’s perspective to see that which is beneficial, it seems to me, doing so when a situation does not contribute toward the goal, is pointless, other then to conclude something isn’t a total loss. The fact that there is some benefit does not necessarily mean I should be happy.

The second part of that, as I see it, is when finding a situation does not contribute toward my goal, it my responsibility to change the situation. However, I can’t overlook the fact that people are often limited by circumstances and other people.

I feel like I’m missing something.

k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 11

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 10:33:31 AM

Sinergy

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The only thing different between excitement, anger, fear, or extreme happiness (adrenal reactions) is the perspective of the person to the stimuli. If you think something makes you angry, it probably does. If you think something makes you unhappy, it probably does. But both the emotions and the attitude towards them are internal. One cannot always change their world or the things which happen to one, but one can always change their mind.

What you do in the outside world wont cause you to be happy, or angry, or upset, or whatever, unless you want to interpret the feedback you get from what you are doing in that way.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 12

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 3:27:08 PM

Griswold

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(I gave up my ethics in '87...so I really shouldn't comment on this topic).

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 13

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 5:25:55 PM

SugarMyChurro

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Status: offline

Here's my ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself

If someone of another culture said it first, post about it here with a link to the presumed timestamp.

(in reply to Griswold)

Post #: 14

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 5:35:31 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

To all the poor people in the world, we have plenty of food in the U.S., we'll sell you all you want!
We'll even give you some if you'll stop sending cheap plastic junk to the U.S.
Oh, and you can't come to the U.S. either.
We have too many poor people here already.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 15

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 9:13:42 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

I’m still a bit messed up about how other people see this happiness stuff.

I feel like I’m missing something.

k

Personally, i do not strive for happiness. If and when it occurs, so be it. i actually prefer contentment...peace with a situation or circumstance. This does not imply i "settle" not does it mean i do not have goals. i am just focusing on the moment more and the emotions less~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 16

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/5/2008 11:18:37 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline

Happiness and goodness does not come from the things we don't do and those we reject but rather the things we do and from everyone we embrace.

Happy and I know it CLAP CLAP!!

Spread the cheer. Give a little love and it all comes back to you.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 17

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/6/2008 12:13:29 AM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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I believe awareness.. not self-awareness, but plain awareness.. comes from earnesty.

When you can look at a glass as half-full, or half-empty, and feel the same way.. realize it's the same thing.. then you're growing up.

PS- Enlightenment and bliss are vastly different. Bliss will only come from ignorance- it's the truth. Enlightenment does not feel happy nor bliss; it's far more like contentment.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 1/6/2008 12:17:38 AM >

(in reply to charmdpetKeira)

Post #: 18

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/6/2008 1:04:18 AM

SugarMyChurro

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Joined: 4/26/2007
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Earnestness? Maybe...

Sincerity? Simpler word choice...

Seriousness of purpose? Another option...

Aren't you at university right now? What's the GPA, Shakespeare?

...

BTW, I'll take two buckets of "earnesty," coleslaw, and some biscuits and gravy.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 19

RE: My New Outlook on Ethics - 1/6/2008 1:55:04 AM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Typically, people speak to eachother in order to communicate. I was hoping "earnesty" would adequately convey "the quality of being earnest". I was under the impression that this was a message broad on the Internet and not an English report.

My apologies if this was somehow difficult or troubling for you.

I would also like to point out that "eachother" is also not a word, despite my usage of it above. I hope you'll somehow manage to understand what it means.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)

Post #: 20

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