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Padriag -> RE: Masters? Do you have set rules and expectations for your submissive? (1/2/2008 8:33:56 PM)
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Very good points Marie, I'll comment further below, but I agree that there can be some confusion here depending how how terms are used or understood.
quote:
ORIGINAL: marieToo
FR:
I think there is a line between having standards, criteria, and expectations, and having specific "rules" for a submissive that are tailor-made to be as effective as possible with that particular submissive.
The thread title (no offense to the OP) is posed in a way which invites confusion and a blurring of the lines, because specific "rules" are not necessarily the same as "expectations".
Example:
Expectation or Standard: I expect my submissive to keep the house clean.
Rule: My submissive has to accomplish all her housecleaning chores on her day off work.
The above rule might be altered if the sub has a habit of skipping out on the chores because she doesn't like to do them, Then the rule might be changed to: She's not allowed to go shopping or socialize with friends until the chores are done.
I think this is a key point. However, we use terms a little differently here. Where you view it as altering a rule, I view it as altering a consequence. I'll try to illustrate by extending your example.
Supposing I set the rule that a submissive must keep the house clean. That's a very general and broad rule, so to clarify I'd break it down into more specific expectations, such as how often the furniture should be dusted, floors mopped or swept, windows cleaned, dishes washed, etc. This would be the "rule".
Suppose the submissive wasn't complying with this rule fully. That would mean I'd want to alter her behavior, so I'd examine what might be causing her misbehavior and apply, to the best of my ability, a consequence that would motivate her to alter her behavior into compliance. This is the key area where our terminology differs and where some of my previous posts might have been misunderstood. My rule doesn't change, the rule is still to keep the house cleaned to certain specifications... what changes are the consequences, in this case something unpleasant will be applied until the behavior alters... when she begins complying, that consequence may change yet again to something pleasant as a reinforcer for the desired behavior.
Hopefully that helps clear up some miscommunication. Thanks for bringing it up Marie.
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I think everyone (doms and subs) need to have certain standards about what kind of relationship they want or expect to have. When we are true to those standards, we tend to attract like-minded people.
Absolutely agree
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After a relationship begins to develope and unfold between two like-minded people with similar standards, then the dom can see exactly where the submissive needs polishing in order to meet his specific expectations, and I think that's where the tailor-made rules have to come into play. And every submissive is different too. It's not like a dom should change what he wants in order to accomodate a submissive, but each relationship has a different chemistry to it, and what a dom wants from one submissive may not be the same as what he wants from the next or the last. In structuring the rules of the relationship, there's got to be some consideration on the Dom's part with regards to the submissive's particular personality. Absolute rigidity with no regard for the fact that you're dealing with individual human beings, most likely isn't going to get any dom very far.
Here too I think we very much agree, just a slight difference in terminology really, saying essentially the same things in different ways. Sometimes my very precise usage of behavioral terminology unfortunately doesn't really aid in effective communication. [8|] Blame it on the geek in me.
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