RE: Defining Victory in Iraq

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farglebargle -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 2:02:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity The Left used to say that a person's private life didn't matter. That's changed now I take it... What you do in a PUBLIC BATHROOM isn't your PRIVATE LIFE.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 3:43:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I remember Harold McMillan asking after a rant by Khruschev in the United Nations security council, over the Suez invasion I think Can I have a translation please lol That was our adlai stevenson, over the cuban missle crisis and the russian minister (in the un said that) and adlai said, dont wait for the translation, you can answer yes or no, started with a Z, that guys name and it was in 63. Ron Different incident. Adlai "famously" asked for a response as to whether missiles had been deployed in Cuba and said he would wait until hell freezes over for an answer. He knew the Russian rep. could speak English so answer now and dont wait for a translation. Khruschev actually took his shoe off and banged it on the table and got very very agitated and incoherent. just like your posts tho' without the profanity lol Hence the need for a translation. Adding: The shoe banging incident was not over Suez. Googling top secret sources tells me that in fact Khruschev may have brought a third shoe with him that day. To Julia and Sinergy this IMO is the correct use of sources on CM. To substantiate facts not support opinion as it is likely that an opposing source of opinion can easily be found. I recall mentioning this before. Please pay attention and observe in the future Thank you lol

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 8:08:49 AM)
~FR~ I will also consider it a victory in Iraq when people stop bickering about what happened before the war. It goes no where and the CO2 that expels from their mouths is contributing to global warming/cooling.

Sinergy -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 8:34:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Monkeygirl, It was Sinergy who brought Clinton into this thread, not I. And you are just now bringing up the blowjob. Why is it in any discussion of recent history, which of course includes the 90s, Leftwingers feel a need to derail it by bringing up Clintons BJ? While it is a common argumentative tactic to discount historical or contextual information which tends to negate one's opinions, I am a historian. In my experience, things generally do not happen in a vacuum. Using this tactic, one could make a perfect case that the revolutionaries in the British colonies in the new world were simply a bunch of terrorists. The Continental Congress was simply a bunch of blowhards expelling CO2 to whine about how poorly they were treated prior to the terrorists pouring tea into Boston Harbor. I mentioned Clinton in this discussion because his administration did what most administrations do and briefed the incoming administration with what had gone on before. The fact that Anencephalyboy and his cub scout patrol didnt bother to pay attention to it does not negate the value of that briefing. Secondly, I was clear making my point that our invasion of Afghanistan had yielded information which allowed the proper authorities (Interpol, etc) to neutralize Al Qaeda. The fact that somebody else ranted about Clinton doing nothing (well, firing a couple of cruise missiles is not technically nothing, but computers are unlikely to be recovered without people on the ground) should not be taken to mean that I brought Clinton and Blowjobgate into the discussion. Sinergy edited to add a joke from Leno: Q: What do you call a man who has been in a coma for six years? A: Mr. President.

luckydog1 -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 9:20:59 AM)
Secondly, I was clear making my point that our invasion of Afghanistan had yielded information which allowed the proper authorities (Interpol, etc) to neutralize Al Qaeda. Nope a lot of them were caught by the US muilitary, or simply blown up by a predator, it was not pure police work. you said that after 911 Clinton advocated a police action instead of military, that is simply false. The fact that somebody else ranted about Clinton doing nothing (well, firing a couple of cruise missiles is not technically nothing, but computers are unlikely to be recovered without people on the ground) should not be taken to mean that I brought Clinton and Blowjobgate into the discussion. Your woman brought the Blowjob gate in, not I or You. You brought in Clinton. I said it was a half hearted attack in 98, not Nothing. And I asked you again why Clinton commited acts of war (didn't say invasion) against Iraq in 98 along with Sudan. And you continue to be afraid to discuss it. Why did Clinton bomb Al shifa, and did it have any affect on our standing in the Muslim world? You can answer or evade...

Owner59 -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 9:53:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf ~FR~ I will also consider it a victory in Iraq when people stop bickering about what happened before the war. It goes no where and the CO2 that expels from their mouths is contributing to global warming/cooling. faster relpy: George Bernard Shaw, We learn from history that we learn nothing from history. I`ll say.....

Sinergy -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 10:05:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 And I asked you again why Clinton commited acts of war (didn't say invasion) against Iraq in 98 along with Sudan. And you continue to be afraid to discuss it. I am not afraid to discuss anything, although I find it mildy amusing that your argumentation tactic seems to be to insult and attempt to pick a fight. Good luck with trying to anger me; I am a professional at verbal strategies, insulting people, and conflict deescalation. You also were angry earlier about the thread being derailed; something about Clinton being discussed as I recall. Why dont you start a thread relating to acts of war Clinton committed against Iraq in 1998 and we can discuss it there. This way the people who want to discuss how "Defining Victory in Iraq" can continue to do so here. Sinergy

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 10:11:18 AM)
Learning from history is alot different than the swarm of flies on this dead horse. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf ~FR~ I will also consider it a victory in Iraq when people stop bickering about what happened before the war. It goes no where and the CO2 that expels from their mouths is contributing to global warming/cooling. faster relpy: George Bernard Shaw, We learn from history that we learn nothing from history. I`ll say.....

Owner59 -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 10:15:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Learning from history is alot different than the swarm of flies on this dead horse. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf ~FR~ I will also consider it a victory in Iraq when people stop bickering about what happened before the war. It goes no where and the CO2 that expels from their mouths is contributing to global warming/cooling. faster relpy: George Bernard Shaw, We learn from history that we learn nothing from history. I`ll say..... Ha-ha You banter,as our GI`s are dying,for nothing.And will continue to die,for nothing. Disgusting..... We are so fucked.

juliaoceania -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 10:43:05 AM)
quote: To Julia and Sinergy this IMO is the correct use of sources on CM. To substantiate facts not support opinion as it is likely that an opposing source of opinion can easily be found. I recall mentioning this before. Please pay attention and observe in the future Thank you lol Please tell me what is unfactual about my sources? I do not remember you ever providing one, I did not know you knew how to or what they were for

seeksfemslave -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 11:32:37 AM)
Juliaoceania: You are indeed a hard woman. At 4:56pm 4th Jan you posted as a source a reference to a Pamphlet. At 5:30pm 4th Jan you told me off for not having read it yet.lol quote: Chap 1 Julia's dirge will discuss... quote: (1) the origin of religion in an ambiguous encounter with the sacred that generates competing interpretations, leaving the community ambivalent about violence quote: (2) the ensuing transgenerational “argument”within the community of interpreters that constitutes a multivalent religious tradition; quote: and (3) the internal pluralism of the tradition as the resource for its continual adaptation and evolution. quote: Throughout the discussion I note the critical interpretive role of leadership in forming and mobilizing the religious community. Doesnt this boil down to: this pamphlet is going to offer opinions explaining the historical development of religion.? Now things like Christianity holds that Jesus is the son of God or Islam was revealed to Muhammed in I forget where he was at the time These are facts. See the difference ?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 11:55:22 AM)
Uhhh, what else is someone supposed to do? You send email to your representatives to get things changed, you research those in the elections, and then you follow your ethics and morals. What does banter have to do with this? Is the repeated bullshit, arguements, posted for the 100th time making things any better. Did you get a mirror for Christmas? Maybe a gift card you could use to get one? You are fucked because you say it is true. I am not because I continue to try and find a better way, instead of all the whiny "he said she said", that political cheerleaders are obsessed with. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Learning from history is alot different than the swarm of flies on this dead horse. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf ~FR~ I will also consider it a victory in Iraq when people stop bickering about what happened before the war. It goes no where and the CO2 that expels from their mouths is contributing to global warming/cooling. faster relpy: George Bernard Shaw, We learn from history that we learn nothing from history. I`ll say..... Ha-ha You banter,as our GI`s are dying,for nothing.And will continue to die,for nothing. Disgusting..... We are so fucked.

juliaoceania -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 11:56:32 AM)
It is an indepth academic study of fundamentalism all over the world and looks at religion as a source of violence and a source of peace. It looks at the historical developments behind extremist groups, how they became politically strong, and ways to short circuit that process. It does not demonize religion, and at the same time, it looks at how religion is used to rally people to a cause... Now people write books all the time using history and social theory to answer pressing questions. In my opinion it was fairly objective of an analysis (mine being an educated opinion), and Appleby had no sacred cows, nor a dog in the fight. Now, lord knows I am a slow reader... I take my time reading books because I enjoy the written word, but there is no way that you could have read that book, digested the many angles he wrote from, and come to the conclusion it is "just an opinion like any old ignorant asshole's opinion".. medical doctors have opinions all the time, based on experience and knowledge... there is an educated opinion, and then there is an uneducated opinion... his is educated, yours... well you know the answer to that. I paid 70 dollars for this book a few years ago for a religion class I took, it is more than a "pamphlet"... but then you would have to read the thing to understand that... and frankly, I can't see that happening Edited to add.. It is doubtful I will be responding to anymore posts from you, I get the distinct feeling you get off on it, kinda like the school boys who used to pull my hair and taunt me saying "Goldie Locks... you are goldie locks".. and frankly I find it rather boring

philosophy -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 12:24:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne i guess im thinking more of the entire middle east though and that may be clouding how im looking at this. they have a culture that has always included violence. we do not. (my italics) ....tell me, did you type that with a straight face? Geronimo i did kimosabe....we havent had the killings and such for thousands of years like they have.... and yes i know we had the lynchings and wars and such-but to me theres no comparison about the levels of violence in our history. i dont think we ever had women killed for adultery or authorized them being mutilated. ...ok, Salem witch trials.....persecution of people of colour.....McCarthy witch hunts...... pogroms against Jews all over Europe.....the Crusades.... You seek to compare Christian and Islamic cultures, and you seem to want to excuse all the violence done in the name of Christ while focussing on all the violence done in the name of Allah. Both cultures are violent.....both cultures have been violent inside the last 1000 years. Both cultures have persecuted women inside the last 1000 years. The problem with your position is that it is built on straw...you need to educate yourself a bit more about the darker side of christianity.

kdsub -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 12:52:11 PM)
philosophy...I hope you are not saying the past justifies today’s transgressions...Right now it makes no difference what the past is….. It’s the actions of the religions today. Today their killing is being done in the name of Allah and power. Our killing is being done in the name of oil and power. Why is Christ being brought into this fray? Butch

Mercnbeth -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 1:11:11 PM)
Defining victory in Iraq? Development of a alternative fuel source delivered at the pump for $1/gallon. It would actually be two victories. The first would be cutting off the funding source of radical Islam, the oil mullah's, Kings, and Royal families in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. The second would be once the region wasn't considered essential to US security we wouldn't give a rat's ass how many Muslims killed themselves arguing over who's faction was the "one true way" of Allah. I'm sure there are some industrial people shredders left over from Saddam's regime that would be cranked up for the 'conversion' process. Granted not as torturous and 'evil' as say water-boarding, but those shredders must have hurt a tad more than an ingrown toenail. Assuming of course the 'convert' was put in feet first. Reading through some of these posts it's no wonder that people need to stay indoors and on-line. Carrying around all those credentials, and sheepskins qualifying how their opinion is more valid than another's would take a HUGE suitcase!

dcnovice -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 1:19:34 PM)
Interesting points, Merc. Thanks.

breezie126 -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 1:25:32 PM)
i agree.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 1:35:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy You seek to compare Christian and Islamic cultures, and you seem to want to excuse all the violence done in the name of Christ while focussing on all the violence done in the name of Allah. Both cultures are violent.....both cultures have been violent inside the last 1000 years. Both cultures have persecuted women inside the last 1000 years. The problem with your position is that it is built on straw...you need to educate yourself a bit more about the darker side of christianity. not christian vs islamic.......american vs middle east.....we would have to still be having witchhunts and lynchings to this day and for many more for there to be any comparison. i am saying they will never desire to govern and live the way we do.....if they did, they would have done it them selves, as we did. the people of this country demanded things change for the better in regard to human rights. and we cant make them change their ways just because we believe we have the best idea on how to live. i dont see that as built on straw at all. but then i dont live in your head, and have no idea how you are comprehending my words.

philosophy -> RE: Defining Victory in Iraq (1/5/2008 2:14:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub philosophy...I hope you are not saying the past justifies today’s transgressions...Right now it makes no difference what the past is….. It’s the actions of the religions today. Today their killing is being done in the name of Allah and power. Our killing is being done in the name of oil and power. Why is Christ being brought into this fray? Butch ....because seeksonlyone made the comparison, and tried to suggest that America has ben culturally violence free for thousands of years. Once you start pointing fingers at whole cultures, then history is a valid comparison. Also, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

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