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Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 12:13:17 PM   
Ankira


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings, All.

I had a question.  This situation has come up several times and I am unsure about my thoughts/opinions/feelings about it.  I would appreciate some advice or ideas from other people with more experience than yours truly.

Recently, I collared my sub that I have been exclusive with for a few months.  While I am open to finding other subs to play with us, and have expressed this, I am in no major hurry to go looking for others.  He, however, has taken it upon himself to look for others to join us.  Most of the time this other person is a female Domme.  And why this bothers me, I don't know.  But it upsets me that he continues to look for play partners and does tell me when he talks with them or when they contact him.  It seems a bit disrespectful.

I expected my collared sub to allow me to handle this (finding people).  And have told him so.  If anyone brings someone into our pair, I figured it would/should be me. 

My question is:  what is the general expected behavior of collared subs?  Do I need to take back the collar, and just keep him as a play partner, or what?  Thank you in advance for your thoughtful responses.

A
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 12:19:25 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		I would make it clear to him just what you indicated here.  This, I hope, was discussed in detail before you collared him.  If he continued to go against my wishes in this matter and I owned him... there would be disciplinary action .. and if it continued after that, I would seriously consider dismissing him.  It seems to me he is topping from the bottom... and deliberatly going against your wishes... but I am assumeing that you have had clear communication with him about this.  I may be totally wrong in that assumption and if I am my comments are not valid.

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 12:35:01 PM   
rubberpet


Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline 		I'm with MissHarlet.  While I'm not officially collared by Mistress, I feel it would be insulting to Her if I were to venture out on my own to find play partners, especially if they were other dommes.  Even if She wanted to bring others into our circle of play (which She doesn't and neither do I), I think it would be understood that She does the looking and approving.  If She is benevolent enough to ask for my opinion and input, it would ultimately be Her decision to allow that person in because She is the domme and therefore the boss.

Set some ground rules and list consequences for any further offense.  If he continues to go against your wishes, dismissal should be an option because, in my opinion, he is not fully respecting your authority (no Cartman comments, please).  Once again, that's just my opinion.

_____________________________

Collared and devoted property of Mistress Lorelei (vampchick88) as of 3/26/08.

Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.


(in reply to MissHarlet)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 1:32:58 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		He may believe that he has control over who you will/will not play with and therefore feels its ok for him to look for other partners, including another Domme. If I were you I'd step on his neck with my boot and make it clear YOU are the Domme you are in control and you will say when/if you want him to look for other playmates. The fact that he is contacting another Domme would not set well with me, when I play I am the one in control and while finding sub playmates may be his area, the Dominant hunting should be left to his Domme.

Good luck,
~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 2:57:15 PM   
MysticFireTopaz


Posts: 50939
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
Status: offline 		You indicated that you have let him know that your expectation is that you would be the one to find other people.  The fact that he continues to do this knowing how you feel seems very disrespectful to me.
 
Personally, I would give him a severe talking to and let him know if that behavior occurs again, he will be released.  And if he continues doing this, I would follow through and release him.
 
I have sometimes been approached by the submissive partner with an offer to play with a couple.  This has always rubbed me the wrong way, as I feel a Dom/me should be the one to approach another Dom/me, not the sub.  Sometimes the sub has indicated that their Dom/me instructed them to approach me.  In those cases I don't fault the sub, but I still don't care for it.
 
In any event, the bottom line is that he is continuing to do something that he knows is against your wishes, and that needs to stop immediately if not sooner.
 
Lady Topaz

(in reply to Ankira)
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RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 3:15:29 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ankira

My question is:  what is the general expected behavior of collared subs?  Do I need to take back the collar, and just keep him as a play partner, or what?  Thank you in advance for your thoughtful responses.

A


There is no general expected behavior of collared subs!  That's something which is negotiated between each Domme and sub.  When a collar is offerred, it really should be discussed at that time what it means to the one offerring it and what can be expected of the sub receiving it as well as what the sub can expect from the Domme who is offering it as part of her commitment to him as his Domme.  You might say "it's negotiation time" or time to better define the relationship; which I know from experience is something very difficult to do when the emotions of a collaring are involved.  I feel this is much easier to do and much better if it happens before a collar is ever offered by a dominant to a sub.
 
IMO, the fact you'd only known him for a few months suggests it may have been more appropriate to offer him a "training collar" instead of a more permanent one.  You might make the analogy of a pre-engagement ring vs. a full-fledged engagement ring.  Most vanillas wouldn't offer an engagement ring to someon they'd only known for a few months.  The training collar would allow the two of you to better define your relationship over time before a permanent collaring took place.  It shows there's an intent to work toward a more permanent relationship, that there's perhaps some exclusivitity in that "he's yours" and a strong signal of "hands off" is being sent to other Dommes, but that you've not made a more permanent commitment to the sub.  But that's just my opinion on the subject and is based on my own experience.  It seems to me that that too many in the lifestyle make these kinds of commitments a bit pre-maturely and the value of a collar has been losing some of it's significance as a result.  The word "disposable" somewhat comes to mind.
 
Certainly the desire to give and the desire to accept one is strong on both sides of the coin.  After all, I think most of us are looking for that kind of connection.  It just seems to me that the time spent defining what a collar means to each side of the coin is far too often insufficient and inadequate before an actual collaring occurs.
 
 - pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 3:27:24 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Although i dont agree with training collars, to me im collared or im not. i do agree with the context of pixels contents. if i agree to certain expectations, and dont follow through. i would expect to be released unless i had a very, and i mean very, good excuse. Talking with another Domme against Your wishes and behind Your back shows more than a lack of respect. It shows someone who has his own ideas of how the relationship will work.

(in reply to pixelslave)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 3:47:11 PM   
LadyJeelys


Posts: 99
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		Perhaps he simply needs more control than has been given and this is an opportunity for you to assert your control.


In my view, no, this is not something a collared subbie should be doing---and it is not something another Dominant ought to be acceptng. But then, I tend to be very slow to offer a collar and have only done so when I know the guy well and he knows me and my expectations.

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 3:56:24 PM   
TNDomDiscipline


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/18/2007
Status: offline 		What we have here is a failure to communicate...

I agree with the others, that it needs to be explicitly clear what your expectations are. My sub is collared and we have discussed the possibility of bringing in other play partners as she is bi-sexual.  We have discussed this, and it is clear that we will only play with submissive females as she is only submissive to me and nobody else, and it is mostly based on satisfying her bi side.  She has been given permission to contact subs that she may wish to play with and we have asked that any subs contacting us make contact with both of us.  Our decision to play with others will be a joint decision by our mutual agreement.

If she were to begin contacting Dom/mes or males without my permission, then there would be disciplinary action taken, as my expectations and restrictions have been made clear...

Try the CPR approach to this... Communication Punishment Release... Best of luck...

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 5:49:25 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		There is no such thing as "generally expected behavior from a sub"  What's expected is as diffrent as every single relationship. It's not a one way guide.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ankira

Greetings, All.

IMy question is:  what is the general expected behavior of collared subs? 
A

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 5:55:15 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Expectations and boundaries need to be clear form the get go. Telling him what is expected of him and this relationship is essential. He doesn't know unless you tell him. If he keeps doing it then that is a different discussion altogether.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 8:27:01 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I have to agree with the advice that you've received.  Having a third person to join in can be a lot of fun, but whether that person is either a Top or a bottom, you can be absolutely sure of one thing.  As the Domme, I'll take care of doing the approaching, I'll handle the negotiations, and I will make the decisions.  If My sub decided on his own to undertake any of these things, it would be a bad mistake on his part.  The first time, if he wasn't already aware (in My case, I can promise you that he is), it would be a discussion, focusing on My disappointment in him that he would assume handling matters that are My decisions.  On the second offense, I would pull My consent for playing with additional people for a time, say three months, for example.  (This is a very good punishment in this particular case, as My sub thoroughly enjoys being co-Topped.  It would certainly be a disappointment to him.)  If any offenses went past this, I would have to start looking at potential release, as propositioning other Dommes to play is exceptionally disrespectful of the collar that he is wearing to begin with.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/6/2008 9:05:52 PM   
weneedyourhelp


Posts: 118
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am of the same opinion as most here. As you may see from our profile, we are also looking for a third, but as you can see, I am the one who is maintaining it. I also handle any approaches/responses. Although 95 % of the time, like now, she is here and I have her look at what it is that I am doing. But that is at My discretion. If he continues to challenge your Dominance, I would reconsider the collar.

Cougar 

_____________________________

" You become responsible forever for what you have tamed." ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Man is still man, and even frozen in a block of ice, our singular purpose is still to get a nut.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/7/2008 10:46:49 AM   
LadyNTemptress


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		Ankira,
 
I am having difficulty understanding why you can' t just assert yourself and set your sub straight once and for all. If you have been clear with him, then he is disrespecting you by ignoring your expectation concerning this particular aspect of the relationship. If on the other hand, you admit to yourself that you have not been clear enough, follow your instinct and let him know in no uncertain terms that you will manage this process going forward and what your approach will be.
 
This maybe his cue to tell you if he agrees or not with your process, your sense of urgency and the parameters you establish for the search. I am in no position to judge if the 'collaring' happened to soon or not. However, I do believe this issue offers an opportunity to redefine the boundaries of the relationship. I definitely support TNDomDiscipline's CPR approach.
 
Good luck to you,
LadyNTemptress

(in reply to weneedyourhelp)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/7/2008 3:21:56 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Frankly what anyone else expects is unimportant -- what you expect is very important.

If you have told him to stop looking and he continues you have authority problems and until those are resolved adding anyone new is, in my strong opinion, unwise.

Only you two and work out the problem. Remember it takes at least two people to maintain your authority dynamic.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/8/2008 3:23:52 AM   
Ankira


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline 		Follow up on this topic.  After reading your advice...and thinking about this.

Thank you to all who posted advice and were so kind to contact me.  Here is what happened.  I clearly explained what I expect and what I don't expect.  In explicit and honest terms.  To which he did understand and agree to.  Which is the Communication part of CPR (suggested by TNDomDiscipline).  This worked.  Now, if in the future this happens again, Punishment and  Release will follow.  Yes, a re-definition of parameters has helped.  Issues that were clear are crystal clear.  He apologized and said what he will do in the future, which is let me handle it.

Assert myself?  I do, every day with him.  Now that we do not have failure to communicate, things should be fine.  He understands that when/if we get a play partner, it is up to me, not him.  And I think he finally "got it."    So, many blessings upon you who took the time to help me out. 

Thank you very much,                 Lady Ankira

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/8/2008 4:36:50 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ankira

I expected my collared sub to allow me to handle this (finding people).  And have told him so. 



Well... You told him what to do, he didn't do it.  Defying you after you've told him is one thing.  Doing something that he maybe thinks is ok is another.  Seems pretty clear to me.  You're the boss, things go your way... unless there's some sort of agreement. 

I would hope you would talk to him about what you want, his behaviors, how he should make it up to you and how he should behave in the future (and make him repeat it back in his own words).... and then follow through with whatever punishment you set up including making him leave for insubordination (isn't that a great word?  It even has "sub" in it).
peace


_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/8/2008 4:41:51 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Lady Ankira

Just to add my (late) 2 cents worth

I think the answer is the same whether he is collared or not.  His collaring is not really relevant. 

This behaviour is just bizarre.  Looking for other female partners (Domme or sub) behind your back is insulting.  And hugely disrespectful.  I don't think you failed to "communicate clearly".  I think you were right to automatically expect him to have the common decency to stop looking for other Mistresses once he was lucky enough to find you.

Subs pimping for their Dominants are a turn off.  I know a lot of male dominants get their girls to pimp, but its hard to respect a Dominant who gets subs to find extra partners (IMO).  It brings you into disrepute. 

If you want to be monogamous, assert your right to be monogamous.  Why does your sub want another Domme anyway?  Are you inadequate? I doubt it.  More likely, he behaving like a greedy kid in a candy store.  I would watch that - I am skeptical that he will change overnight thanks to one chat.

You mentioned that you might want another sub (probably male?), not a co-Domme!  What was your sub thinking?


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(in reply to Ankira)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/8/2008 4:53:57 AM   
petpete


Posts: 677
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		i will have to agree with Y/you folks too!! By the way, i love the way You take off Your knickers LNT

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Chief: Max, you realize you'll be facing every kind of danger imaginable.
Max: And loving it!


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Expectations for Collared Subs - 1/13/2008 12:56:15 PM   
Kitte9


Posts: 411
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline 		my two cents:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have to agree with the advice that you've received.  Having a third person to join in can be a lot of fun, but whether that person is either a Top or a bottom, you can be absolutely sure of one thing.  As the Domme, I'll take care of doing the approaching, I'll handle the negotiations, and I will make the decisions.  If My sub decided on his own to undertake any of these things, it would be a bad mistake on his part.  The first time, if he wasn't already aware (in My case, I can promise you that he is), it would be a discussion, focusing on My disappointment in him that he would assume handling matters that are My decisions.  On the second offense, I would pull My consent for playing with additional people for a time, say three months, for example.  (This is a very good punishment in this particular case, as My sub thoroughly enjoys being co-Topped.  It would certainly be a disappointment to him.)  If any offenses went past this, I would have to start looking at potential release, as propositioning other Dommes to play is exceptionally disrespectful of the collar that he is wearing to begin with.


I read this and was immediately affected. Anyone can yell, scream, or try to intimidate me and it won't work: I've been in retail too long. But to say that I have disappointed you hurts me deeply, and I will strive to never cause such disappointment again. It is a source of pride for me to know my Mistress is proud of my behaviour, and I work very hard to earn her respect. Any failure on my part is reflected upon her.

_____________________________

I am stronger than yesterday

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 20
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