Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/7/2008 7:51:58 PM)

        I came across a brief line by GoddessDustyGold on another thread that got me thinking.  Process of elimination makes me think she was talking about Giuliani when she said "a liberal disguising himself as a Republican."   If I were to use that same line, it would be to describe Huckabee.
 
       A problem with our two party system is the assumption that fiscal conservatives must also be social conservatives on the R side, and that fiscal liberals are also social liberals on the D.

       My question is this:  Which is more important in deciding which side of the aisle a politician belongs on?  Their social attitudes, or their fiscal ones?




petdave -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/7/2008 9:14:27 PM)

Damned if i could ever figure it out... that's why i'm just a plain ol' libertarian. None of that messy hypocrisy. [:)]

Personally, i tend to define "them" by social issues... Red or blue, they're both going to raise taxes and piss it away on stupid shit, but Republicans want to outlaw porn, abortion, and good music, and Democrats want to outlaw guns, cars, and insulting people. Either way, i'd rather elect my housecat.




Aylee -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/7/2008 9:54:23 PM)

Is his name Morris?




Termyn8or -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/7/2008 11:47:50 PM)

There ya go, everybody just write in Morris the cat.

Oh wait, how do you do that with touch screens ?

T

I know, please take it to another thread, I am tired of hijacking every thread I get into. The touchscreen voting thing, somebody else start it OK ? I'll have a look tomorrow and see how you did.

T




popeye1250 -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 12:14:34 AM)

I'd love to see a fiscal conservative in Washington!
Those pricks are spending money that doesn't exist.
Lobbyists should be outlawed!
One thing I do like about Romney is that he is an outstanding manager.
He said he would audit govt "top to bottom", that's a good start.
As for legislating morality the Dems want to do that.
I don't think it's any of the govt's business what the Citizens do as long as they don't break any laws or hurt others.
I'm a fiscal conservative, I want Washington to stop spending money in foreign countries and spend it here.
I want out of all these "trade" deals that are really "Outsourcing" deals.
I want my borders enforced and my immigration laws strictly enforced.
If two Lesbians or gay men want to get married it's none of mine or the govt's business.
You don't need a "permit" to vote or excercise your other rights, I don't think you should need a "permit" to carry or own firearms. I think that that would *really* "take a bite out of crime."
Vermont has no problem with that and New Hampshire looks like it is heading that way as well.
If someone wants to fire up a J bar that's their business too, not mine or the govt's.
If a local school district wants to change something they shouldn't have to petition Washington to do it.
We need to get rid of the Depts of Energy and Education and gut the State Dept.
We have 2,500 ICE Agents for the entire country, there should be 100,000.
Washington should be running our govt like they're supposed to be doing, not trying to tell the Citizens what to do.




hisannabelle -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 2:42:59 AM)

greetings theheretic,

i believe both are a good measure. unfortunately the way our country is set up, we have one party that is supposed to be socially and fiscally conservative, and one that is supposed to be socially and fiscally liberal. so in order to be a faithful democrat or republican, candidates must walk a certain tightrope if they are pro-taxes but anti-death penalty, or something like that.

personally, i'd be really happy to see a candidate who is both socially and fiscally liberal, as i think we're seriously lacking this year.

respectfully,
annabelle.




seeksfemslave -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 3:13:18 AM)

Social or Fiscal  attitudes to define people politically:?
It seems to me that opininions will be mixed and depend on the issue.

The group I think should be identified by having  a kiss mark stuck on their forehead are PC liberals. We will then know who they are before they offer their idealistic but ultimately dangerous opinions  and we can throw them back under the gooseberry bush , from where they must have come lol.

Well they believe in fairy tales dont they ?




subrob1967 -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 3:51:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I'd love to see a fiscal conservative in Washington!
Those pricks are spending money that doesn't exist.
Lobbyists should be outlawed!
One thing I do like about Romney is that he is an outstanding manager.
He said he would audit govt "top to bottom", that's a good start.
As for legislating morality the Dems want to do that.
I don't think it's any of the govt's business what the Citizens do as long as they don't break any laws or hurt others.
I'm a fiscal conservative, I want Washington to stop spending money in foreign countries and spend it here.
I want out of all these "trade" deals that are really "Outsourcing" deals.
I want my borders enforced and my immigration laws strictly enforced.
If two Lesbians or gay men want to get married it's none of mine or the govt's business.
You don't need a "permit" to vote or excercise your other rights, I don't think you should need a "permit" to carry or own firearms. I think that that would *really* "take a bite out of crime."
Vermont has no problem with that and New Hampshire looks like it is heading that way as well.
If someone wants to fire up a J bar that's their business too, not mine or the govt's.
If a local school district wants to change something they shouldn't have to petition Washington to do it.
We need to get rid of the Depts of Energy and Education and gut the State Dept.
We have 2,500 ICE Agents for the entire country, there should be 100,000.
Washington should be running our govt like they're supposed to be doing, not trying to tell the Citizens what to do.


Well said...I agree 100%




hisannabelle -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 6:18:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings theheretic,

i believe both are a good measure. unfortunately the way our country is set up, we have one party that is supposed to be socially and fiscally conservative, and one that is supposed to be socially and fiscally liberal. so in order to be a faithful democrat or republican, candidates must walk a certain tightrope if they are pro-taxes but also pro-death penalty, or something like that.

personally, i'd be really happy to see a candidate who is both socially and fiscally liberal, as i think we're seriously lacking this year.

respectfully,
annabelle.





seeksfemslave -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 7:55:51 AM)

Why have you quoted yourself....verbatim ?
or to put it another way
Why have you quoted yourself....verbatim?




popeye1250 -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 3:26:52 PM)

Social issues seem to be big in the Democrats camp.
I prefer that the govt stay out of that area as it's really none of the govt's business.
Democrats always seem to want govt in every facet of their lives.
They're always looking for "another program" payed for by of course, the govt.




GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Social or Fiscal: Which defines? (1/8/2008 10:03:17 PM)

You are absolutely right.  I did type that, and I probably should have been more specific.  It was a bit tongue in cheek, and probably not the best way to word it.  And, yes, I was referring to Rudy.
Gone are the days when Republicans were pretty much conservative in all areas, and Democrats were on the liberal end of things.  I say , in today's political arena, I would vote for a conservative Dem before I would vote for a liberal Repub. 
I see things in much the same light as Popeye.  Get the hell out of our lives.  And tell the "people" to stop marching on Washington to get rights that are ridiculous.  We are now bending over backwards (or forward and grabbing our ankles, of you prefer) for a tiniest percentage of the population , because it is politically correct.  And/or because they are making a hell of a lot of noise. 
I am personally opposed to gay "marriage".  I have many firends who are gay and I love them dearly.  If they want to have a ceremony in which the state recognizes a civil union in a legal manner, let that be up to the state.  It is a secular thing.  But Churches should make their own rules, and should have the right to do so.  If some Churches choose to sanctify gay marriages, that is up to them.  But I do not want to see a law that tells Churches they have to honor any union with a ceremony within their religious precepts.  Many, including Me, still believe that the word marriage holds a specific meaning, and it should not be watered down.  There is no need.  For that matter, make all civil unions, whether between a man and a woman, or two women, or two men, civil unions if they are not church ceremonies.  If a judge performs the secular ceremony, then it is a legal civil union.  Save the word marriage for those who enter into the "bonds of matrimony" in the traditional manner.  "shrug*   It's really about recognition, isn't it?  And legal protection?  It's really not about God or a Covenant.  And if a civil union between gays is not recognized in a secular manner (by the state), then there are plenty of legal routes to ensure that the partner has all the protection needed.  What is is burning need to use the word "marriage".  We have already bastardized the intent of that word. 
I am also opposed to no holds barred abortion as we see it today.  Gone is the conscience and thoughfulness of the deed.  It is just another thing that is supposed to be "legal".  *Sigh*
I am done with all the social programs that do nothing but make people more and more dependant on "nanny". I am  done with all the justification of things that were once unacceptable behavior now becoming acceptable because social mores have desensitized us so badly.  I am done with the ease with which rights to make choices have been removed for so many.  There are less and less choices to make every day, because we are not counted as intelligent enough to make our own decisions, good or bad, and man up for the consequences, good or bad.    I do not see Rudy stemming the flow of that tide.  Of course, I see very few who are interested in stemming the flow of that tide, so it may not be fair of Me to pick on him. 
That said, yes, I have a problem with the character of a man who thinks it is alright to hold a press conference announcing he is divorcing his wife so he can be with his mistress.  And we all know he was not referring to his FemDom! [;)]  It speaks to his character.  And character still means something to Me.  It's important to Me. 
I am never PC.  But most of you know that already!      




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