What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (Full Version)

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bekaness -> What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 8:36:51 PM)

When I read the post about 14 yr old with Teacher site.. there was another link..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080107/ap_on_re_us/eligible_bachelor_rape;_ylt=As0a0wGL04yK8gpR.UfZ5.5H2ocA

To sum it up, guy bought girls some nice things and then tried to have sex/was turned down, so he raped them. I am not debating whether or not he did it, rather... I have been on some restaraunt meets with some Doms in the area and after deciding that those who are not active in the BDSM community/parties are often not my type, because after going to dinner with them they think we will then go play.
Am I completely off here? Is a dinner/movie invitation open invitation for a groping session?

I never dated in highschool, I was religious back then, but not now. So I am kind of lost in that being submissive, where is the line? Some of these women he bought really nice things, and they should of not allowed him to buy them things if they weren't planning on doing anything else with him.. True the saying a fool and his money are soon parted, but don't you think they should not have lead him on?

Myself, I make it very clear from the beginning there will be no play after, no touching, especially on the first date. They tend to anyway.. and I go with it because I enjoy it(I'm a redblooded woman just like the rest), not because they FORCE me to.. but it does irritate me that they go for it anyway especially after I had asked for no touching in the first place. Is this unreasonable to expect no physical contact on a first meet beyond a hug?

How does this whole dating thing work?? Please, I am new to the RT(as opposed to online) BDSM community within the last year and really would appreciate friendly advice.

Rebecca



samboct -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 9:01:18 PM)

Hi Rebecca

I'll take a stab at it-

1)  Don't use the actions of a sensationalist newspaper article as the basis for your dating do's and don'ts.  It's quite clear that Z preyed on young, inexperienced women.  Most women would realize that a guy pressing expensive gifts on a first date is taking her for a whore, and should walk away quickly, unless she's happy with the arrangement.  (I'm not being facetious or sanctimonious here.)

2)  There's been a lot of distortion about dating communication over the past years.  Remember that sex should be a passionate act, and therefore doesn't really do well with a dispassionate discussion all the time.  Furthermore, most men have had experience with women who are uncomfortable verbalizing their desires and therefore will essay a physical advance, regardless of what the woman has said prior.  People are entitled to change their minds after all.  Any reasonable guy will recognize when a pass has made a woman uncomfortable, but body language speaks far louder than verbiage.  Stiffening and shrinking away from contact will generally get the point across quickly.

3)  Consider your meeting place- a BDSM event is where sex is being discussed, thus many individuals, both men and women are going to have sex on their mind.  While there are plenty of people that don't play upon first introduction, there are no hard and fast rules.  His expectation of a dating situation involving sex pretty quickly is not unreasonable.

4)  From the guys perspective, there's a lot of guesswork going on here- does she like me?, if I call her later, will she say yes?  A guy with a fair amount of confidence, respect for himself, and for you has no need to clinch the deal on the first meeting, not everybody is into what Erica Jong termed the zipless fuck.  But make it clear that you're interested in the guy if you want him to call back.  A good kiss does wonders, or a pat on the ass leaves it pretty plain where things are at.

5)  If I can play armchair shrink for a sec- I have a hunch what's going on is that you're unsure of yourself and that's getting transmitted to the men you're with.  This means you're ripe for a sales pitch, which is what you're getting.  If you have a bit more self confidence and surety, then signals won't be so ambiguous.  But it's a catch 22- you won't get that without a bit more experience.

There- does any of this help?

Sam



FreeAgent -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 9:22:29 PM)

It is really hard to not be lured in ESPECIALLY when they bring presents.  But, just because you show up for dinner and a movie doesn't grant anyone the right to touch you.  Even if they buy you a Porsche they still have no claim to your body.  If you want to protect yourself mentally, physically and emotionally, you have to stand firm to what you've decided you will and won't let happen to you, especially on a first time meet.  

Believe me, after several bazillion dates myself, I was heading towards the road of bitter betty and jaded jane until I began to follow my own rules and decided that I'm not going to play with just anyone.  Dating in BDSM is really hard especially when you're new but, take heart with time it gets easier.  But, as with anything there's less heart ache when you believe in yourself and know your own parameters and follow those.  Of course there's always a time to throw caution to the wind just check in with yourself and make sure that it's what you really want to do and aren't doing it for someone/something else.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 9:28:39 PM)

I have always found here in the scene, that submissive women love giving presents, especially on dates.

I always accecpt them in the spirit ( and I love getting the gift of spirits hint hint) they are given.



Maya2001 -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 9:51:01 PM)

When I arrange to meet someone, it has to be at someplace public eg coffee shop or restaurant, if your driving yourself make sure your car in parked close by and in a busy public view incase they want to walk you to your car and I make it very clear that I am doing nothing beyond meeting to see if there is interest and to chat, this applies even in the case where I have been chatting with someone for months online, this gives me a chance to see if I am somewhat comfort  a hug or peck on the cheek I consider acceptable,  I normally will tell the person that I would like to take 2 or 3 days to think it over if I would like to see them again and will contact them... and this manner I am not rejecting them on the spot and I can also give myself time to relax from the excitement/nervousness of meeting and think clearly do I really want to continue seeing this person, it also gives the other person the same opportunity and then does not have to be face to face where discomfort/pressure may be felt to make a judgement on the spot.  Having a safe call buddy is also a good idea  http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/ravensafecallsandwords.htm


As for gifts I don't like the idea of accepting prior  in particular because it would open you up to providing an address where you live, I need to be quite comfortable with that person before I give up details where I live and I only give out a cell phone number and do not give out my last name so they cannot look me up.  

A first meet gift depends on a couple of factors -- how long have you been chatting  beforehand also on what is it, flowers, taking me out to dinner-- no biggie,   a collar --no way. 



Termyn8or -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 9:57:39 PM)

Well you got pictures of guys on your profile. And I do not mean to insult, but there are those places where you have to ask.

If indeed you are a Lady, (and always have been) you are to be accorded certain types of respect. Even if not you are to be accorded certain types of respect.

You have that Catholic school look and I have no idea if you came by it honestly or achieved it. But if you are indeed that which you claim, and even if not, there is a certain respect involved.

If I were the Man you meet I would limit touching to a light hug. I am very sensitive about being touched and almost sent someone to the hospital for going too far. This is a guy, a friend, but he was drunk. Just fucking with me he almost wound up in ER. I have my space.

You have your space, it is not for me to violate, it is to respect, and earn your respect. I know alot of guys just think with their penis and can't be bothered even with simple manners.

Body language means alot, a couple of hugs, OK, then a few handholds, and at the end a heavy handhold. Watch out next time though.

Really if the second date happens it means you want something. Me. That tells me we have a connection, and expect more then.

I mean expect my hands up your shirt and down your pants. Now mind you that is still not a yes to sex, but it is a strong indicator that yes is in the near future.

By the third date you should be at ease with me, then shit happens.

The days of chivalry are not gone, but the chivalrous have gone underground. We are still here, some of us were raised right. Some of us have respect and candor. Some of us have bravery and common sense. You just don't hear from us much because when we speak we get shot down at every turn.

If it's not gay rights it is feminists who want to be Men, and never will be. It is always something. So don't blame us for hiding in the woodwork, we will come out when the time is right. And it is mostly our own woodwork. So we do what we want.

But we are still here.

Actually I could teach you how to put a MF on the floor in 0.08 seconds if he puts his hands where you do not want them. But I dunno if that is quite necessary yet.

But then my next olady will know this, and will be able to put me on the floor before I will ever let her leave my house. I do not want to have to worrry about her.

Actually IMO your Dad should have taught you this shit. You can cripple a Man with one hand if you know how to do it.

Hey now, a little hands on is not always bad, second or third date, exploration should be fun. But if you are actually on that second or third date it is for a reason. You want to be there. Play it by ear I guess. But I believe that on a first date a Man is a gentleman. At least in respect to the Lady. I might go kill the cook if the Lady's steak is too well done, but she will never see that. How I treat others is a moot point. This is a DATE STUPID, get it ?

How I treat her, in the final analysis, is all that matters.

T



YourhandMyAss -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 10:28:31 PM)

I think that someone should make it entirely clear UPFRONT BEFORE said date that this isn't a seqway into play, this date is just a meeting for dinner and some nice conversation, and make it clear nothing is to be expected later on simply cause we had dinner.  Usualy making that clear makes people who think one meeting is going to quarentee them a fuck decide not to meet me.



I also think that if someone chooses to give me a gift he did so on his own free will and I am not obligated to him in ANY way even if I accept the gift..
quote:

ORIGINAL: bekaness

To sum it up, guy bought girls some nice things and then tried to have sex/was turned down, so he raped them. I am not debating whether or not he did it, rather... I have been on some restaraunt meets with some Doms in the area and after deciding that those who are not active in the BDSM community/parties are often not my type, because after going to dinner with them they think we will then go play.

Am I completely off here? Is a dinner/movie invitation open invitation for a groping session?

I never dated in highschool, I was religious back then, but not now. So I am kind of lost in that being submissive, where is the line? Some of these women he bought really nice things, and they should of not allowed him to buy them things if they weren't planning on doing anything else with him.. .

Rebecca




MissMagnolia -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 10:54:17 PM)

Vanilla or not, gifts or not, I always tell a guy straight out that sex isn't on the menu. And won't be until I say so. Which can take a loooooong time.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:01:58 PM)

Ironically I told james no sex no play no bdsm no nothing on our first meet that's not what it's for, and I myself, personally, was the one who broke that the minute we met I couldn't keep my greedy little paws off of him lol, we fooled around a bit he himself said it was to soon for sex, and then we blew right past that statement cause I wanted sex and he was willing to go along lol.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

Vanilla or not, gifts or not, I always tell a guy straight out that sex isn't on the menu. And won't be until I say so. Which can take a loooooong time.



MissMagnolia -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:06:52 PM)

Hey, if you choose to shag his arse off the first time you meet, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact instant sex can be amazing (not that I'd know, innocent angel that I be[:D]). But it is a choice and one shouldn't feel obligated to put out just because someone gives you a bunch of petunias and a box of chocolates he found under the sofa.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:12:01 PM)

Hey now those chocolates were NOT found under the couch* winks*

I agree it's a persons choice and purely up to them, I just thought our situation was kind of funny, and ironically every one loves the picture of us before he left from the date they all said I look so happy and content and cozy wth him.  I don't mention it was all the endorphins from amazing sex* hehe*
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

Hey, if you choose to shag his arse off the first time you meet, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact instant sex can be amazing (not that I'd know, innocent angel that I be[:D]). But it is a choice and one shouldn't feel obligated to put out just because someone gives you a bunch of petunias and a box of chocolates he found under the sofa.



Lordandmaster -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:13:22 PM)

Lordandmaster accepts gifts.

I HOPE YOU'RE ALL PAYING ATTENTION.



MissMagnolia -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:17:35 PM)

They were too from under the couch. And the reason you instantly shagged the bugger to death is cuz you're a tart.[sm=shake.gif][sm=tongue.gif]



bekaness -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:28:39 PM)

LOL good to know, you are all such cards.



Hottiegurl -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/7/2008 11:32:06 PM)

Oh dear, I have not had gifts brought to me since I was in my teens and twenties, but even then I could not stand them on a first date.  Flowers, am I allergic?  Chocolate, mmmmmmm downfall right there but stick some fruit or the wrong cream in it and ick.  Perfume, my god, that is one a guy should never buy on a first date but I have gotten that too.
 
Give me a guy who asks me what kind of food we both would like to eat or go to a movie that We will both enjoy that is a great first date.  A meeting, give me a coffee shop or even a bookstore with a coffee shop.  Most important is the meeting in public.
 
I have been the ok nice to meet you but no thanks girl, I have been the ok great to meet you see you in a week and I can't wait.  Nails bit off before I see him next.  Then I have been the hussy and said can I ...................................... yes........... slurp ............. oh my. etc!



YourhandMyAss -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/8/2008 12:03:28 AM)

they were not from under the couch he don't own a couch:P

Yes, but I am his tart:D ;)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

They were too from under the couch. And the reason you instantly shagged the bugger to death is cuz you're a tart.[sm=shake.gif][sm=tongue.gif]



AquaticSub -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/8/2008 1:00:21 AM)

~Fast Reply~

I have not encountered anyone who thought they could buy sex with gifts on dates. Probably cause I'm pretty upfront about the fact that I will tie penises into very lovely bows if needed. [:D]

That said, I have turned down gifts because I thought they were too much. But that doesn't mean I would have owed him something if I had. Gifts are just that - gifts. If you want to buy sex, ring up a call girl, don't get an iPod. If he was offering them gifts, he had no absolutely no reason to expect sex in return. That's just the mark of a sleezeball and those girls have no blame in what happened simply because they expected gifts to be gifts.

If you don't want to be touched beyond a hug, be clear and stick to your ground. If you tell them no touching, but go with it anyway then you are sending the signal that "This is ok, I enjoy it, keep going". Since you enjoy it, maybe you sent some sort of signal that they thought meant you had changed your mind, which you enforced by not rebuffing them. It wouldn't be the first time a woman said "No X,Y, or Z" and changed her mind in the middle of the date.



Level -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/8/2008 3:25:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

(not that I'd know, innocent angel that I be[:D]).


[8|][8|][8|]



seeksfemslave -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/8/2008 3:39:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss
Ironically I told james no sex no play no bdsm no nothing on our first meet that's not what it's for, and I myself, personally, was the one who broke that the minute we met I couldn't keep my greedy little paws off of him lol

My little grey cells detect double standards here.
Women wants it = OK and funny
Men, who always want it = cant have and not funny
Yeeees very interesting!



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: What is your view on getting gifts on a "date" (1/8/2008 4:19:37 AM)

i'm a very a picky woman which means Daddy and i spent time picking the "right" men for dating (before finding my SO).  yes, you've heard me correctly - Daddy assisted me in finding my SO for a relationship. besides His list of 4 standards in what i should be looking in a man, He established a very strict rule that there will be no sex on the 1st date.  if the guy really liked me, then he would wait until the next date.  that rule truly burned me in the end because often there was no second date HOWEVER it also weed out the men who were only looking for "dinner/movie/sex at a cheap motel".  i did have some nice 1st dates yet it was very clear they were looking for something in return.



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