Need your opinion (Full Version)

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Saltwatergirl -> Need your opinion (1/8/2008 3:23:53 AM)

I have been corresponding with a potential slave since the summer. He has visited me once and things did not go that well. Now after months and months this slave wants to try again to see if things could potentially work out. The tentitive plan for the visit is five days of 24/7 training.  I live in a rural private area and own a large estate.

The slave first offered to pay all expense trip to NY or whereever I wanted to go but serious training would be a lot harder to do in a hotel so I offered to do this at my home and suggested that rather than pay for the expensive hotels and flights estimated at about 4000 dollars and that he use this money as a tribute for training to cover my monthly expense during the time he is here and the extensive planning I have and would have to do to execute this full 24/7 week of training. The slave is very financially secure etc.

Do you think that it is wrong to expect for this? Why would any slave expect to get a full week of training 24/7 which would be very demanding physically, mentally and emotionally for me - without having to offer me at least what the various trips would have cost? I am starting to think that this slave is just looking for a sex partner to dominate him rather than a real Mistress/slave relationship and that he is just using the slave role to try to find self indulgent pleasures at my expense/efforts.

Any opinions would be most welcome!




darchChylde -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 3:34:22 AM)

so long as you are up front about it, there is nothing wrong with it at all

on the same note, there is nothing wrong with him disagreeing to do so

just be careful bringing someone into your home who you obviously do
not trust on some levels




MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 3:53:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl

... He has visited me once and things did not go that well. ....

........I am starting to think that this slave is just looking for a sex partner to dominate him rather than a real Mistress/slave relationship and that he is just using the slave role to try to find self indulgent pleasures at my expense/efforts.


I don't think you are going to have a great week. Your feminine instincts about this "slave" are probably right.

No amount of money would induce me to allow a sleazy, self indulgent, rich man into my own  home and service him for 5 days!  He can go pay a pro-domme.

If you really need the $4,000, make sure you don't breach any prostitution laws in your part of the world.  You might need a permit for the kind of "training" he is expecting for his $4,000.  Do not assume that play like anal penetration, cock and ball torture and and oral service is "not sex" in Nova Scotia.

Also get the money in advance and have a safety plan to remove him if he turns nasty (when reality doesn't perfectly match his fantasy).  Perhaps only charge $800 for every day or part day that he actually stays.

5 days is a long time with a virtual stranger in your home.




petdave -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 5:33:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl
Why would any slave expect to get a full week of training 24/7 which would be very demanding physically, mentally and emotionally for me - without having to offer me at least what the various trips would have cost?


Well, were you planning on getting anything out of the experience before he raised the issue of money? i have heard that some people dominate for fun, but it could just be one of those pesky internet rumors...




SailingBum -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 6:07:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl

I have been corresponding with a potential slave since the summer. He has visited me once and things did not go that well. Now after months and months this slave wants to try again to see if things could potentially work out. The tentitive plan for the visit is five days of 24/7 training.  I live in a rural private area and own a large estate.

The slave first offered to pay all expense trip to NY or whereever I wanted to go but serious training would be a lot harder to do in a hotel so I offered to do this at my home and suggested that rather than pay for the expensive hotels and flights estimated at about 4000 dollars and that he use this money as a tribute for training to cover my monthly expense during the time he is here and the extensive planning I have and would have to do to execute this full 24/7 week of training. The slave is very financially secure etc.

Do you think that it is wrong to expect for this? Why would any slave expect to get a full week of training 24/7 which would be very demanding physically, mentally and emotionally for me - without having to offer me at least what the various trips would have cost? I am starting to think that this slave is just looking for a sex partner to dominate him rather than a real Mistress/slave relationship and that he is just using the slave role to try to find self indulgent pleasures at my expense/efforts.

Any opinions would be most welcome!



If your so well off miss large estate what is 4 grand to you???  I would be insulted if you suggested that, call you a whore and find someone else.  nuff said

BadOne




undergroundsea -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 6:21:27 AM)

It depends on the persons involved. I have an easier time seeing the suggested approach for a professional or semi-professional dynamic than for a personal one.

I seek relationships based on mutual interest. If I were to go visit a domme, I would not feel that I would owe her something because I would also be putting in time and energy into the experience. If in his position, I would feel that what I am contributing to the time together (visiting, and what I do while there) is being undermined. And if the offer for the NY trip was one with genuine intentions (versus one to create a sense obligation), I would feel that that gesture was being undermined. I see a D/s relationship in the same light as other social relationships like friendship or romance which are based on mutual interest and not compensation. My philosophy also relies on confidence that I can effectively contribute to make it a mutually enjoyable experience, and that I do reasonably well to be a considerate and unselfish guest in a social sense.

So that is how it is for my circumstances and my philosophy. There are various other circumstances and philosophies that exist, including those that allow for the scenario you envision.

MsC raises a good point. You have more information available to you and your instincts may be correct. Also, some men use money to create a sense of obligation and accordingly form expectations.

PetDave also raises a good question to discern whether you feel the energy expended into the weekend will be one-sided, or is the matter becoming relevant because his willingness to pay for the NY trip has now created the possibility.

Cheers,

Sea




Lashra -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 6:24:53 AM)

I would have him pay for all his own expenses and I would not have a stranger stay in my home. It maybe harder to train in a hotel, but it would be safer. Besides if he is that well off he can certainly afford the expenses and if it doesn't work out, you both can go your separate ways safely.

~Lashra




hardbodysub -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 6:49:58 AM)

Since the first visit "did not go that well", I don't think planning a five day training makes any sense at all.




pixelslave -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 7:00:30 AM)

I think the answer to your question would have a great deal to do with why you feel things did not go well during his first visit with you.  Understanding that would seem to give you a better understanding for your motivation to have continued your correspondence with him and to be considering another attempt at seeing him again.  Beyond that, I agree with the essence of what Sea has to say on the subject.
 
 - pixel




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 7:21:53 AM)

One bad experience often leads to another....   There is no way that I would permit a stranger into my home for training of this sort, especially if I had doubts about previous experience with him.  That you live in a rural area is even more of a red flag for me.  Subs go on and on about safe calls----what about dom safe calls? 

Cheap motels are amazingly useful places.  If you do go through with this venture, pick one and get a room far from the others.  If you need any special stuff, certainly make the man pay for it in advance---any insertables, gags, etc are going to be his anyway, it's not like you can re-use them!  If he wants you to wear some costume that you don't already own, or use some toy that you don't already have, make him get them for you as well. 

Regarding the money...  I would not go out of pocket to cover his expenses, but if you are not a pro, why ask for extra?  The wallet is the last bastion of male dominance, once the hard on is gone.  Asking for random money is asking him to take way too much control, and gives him too much leverage for the future. 

Short answer though---drop this guy like a hot rock.  Your instincts are doubtless correct!




thetammyjo -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 7:27:13 AM)

I'm echoing several other people here by wondering why you would do a second scene let along a 5 day "training" with someone with whom you obviously did not have chemistry.

I can't tell and I'm not going to look at your profile to see if you are a pro or not but even if you were, I'd wonder why you were doing it when surely there are others whom you can have more chemistry and fun with.

I for one do BDSM because I enjoy it. No enjoyment = don't do it.

I get enough mundane stuff I have to do to ever let it become part of a scene especially with someone new or whom I had little connection with.

That's why even after talking, meeting, and negotiations, I insist on a test scene before I'll sign someone to a training contract. Sometimes in words it seems like it will work out or should work out but there's no spark in meatlife when you finally try a scene. No one's fault, simply a matter of differences and chemistry. Geesh that sounds so 1970s doesn't it?




vampchick88 -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 9:29:13 AM)

  Don't sell yourself short. This person seems to be a bit weary. I know usually one bad time tends to lead to another. That person probably isn't going to change and seems to be taking you for a bit of a ride. Personally I wouldn't do it, thats just my opinion though. I'd be looking for somone worthy of my time, but again thats just my opinion.




Midgie -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 11:35:24 AM)

It sounds to me like you answered your own question.

While I don't see anything wrong with asking for a tribute as long as you are up front about it. I think you should follow your instincts.

Your gut is telling you no. So I would say, if you still want to do it, go to a hotel. Like others said it might be more difficult but it is certainly safer.




YourhandMyAss -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 11:49:50 AM)

Why would you care what a bunch of online strangers say. 100 can say yes it's wrong of you and 100 can say no it's not wrong of you, and at the end of the day they're just words on a screen.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Saltwatergirl



Do you think that it is wrong to expect for this? Why would any slave expect to get a full week of training 24/7 which would be very demanding physically, mentally and emotionally for me - without having to offer me at least what the various trips would have cost? Any opinions would be most welcome!





YourhandMyAss -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 11:55:23 AM)

Hell it can be a long time even if you know the person. I stayed 7 days with my brother for his wedding and I was more than ready to go home after the visit lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

[5 days is a long time with a virtual stranger in your home.




littlesarbonn -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 11:56:46 AM)

From the sound of the posting, you're both independently wealthy, although it is difficult to determine that exactly without knowing for sure. My advice would be to arrange a few days where you meet this person in some location neither of you lives, kind of a halfway point between the two of you to see if you're actually compitable with each other. Unless you're a professional, which maybe you are (I have no clue on this), asking for money is always going to turn you into a professional in his eyes, and in some cases may actually cause a lot of respect to be diminished immediately (no, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a professional or that they deserve less respect, but when someone believes he's seeing a nonprofessional, he can turn quite nasty when realizing he was really dealing with someone whose first interest is money).




ElanSubdued -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 1:24:24 PM)

Saltwatergirl,

Undergroundsea and pixelslave gave relationship advice that resonates.  DarchChylde, MsCfromMelbourne, Lashra, and LadyHibiscus brought up safety issues that also immediately connected.  Oddly enough though, whore name-calling aside, SailingBum's comments most hit the nail on the head for me.  Were I in the position of your would-be slave and you attempted to redirect my travel/hotel offer to your own pocketbook, I'd be insulted.  Calling you a "whore" isn't my style, but it is likely I'd stop courting you.  Perhaps I might give you a chance to explain yourself, however, after the length of time you two have been communicating, I don't think so.  You're attempt to bill me would send a clear signal you're not interested in me as a long-term relationship partner.

I agree with the advice everyone gave vis-a-vis safety.  Seemingly though, this isn't the crux of the matter.  Your OP leads me to believe you two have differing agendas.  It is also possible that you've simply not figured out what you want from this slave.  Your profile isn't quite clear about whether you're looking for a long-term relationship, but it reads as though you are.  Based on the visit you already had, you may already know the chemistry isn't right for something long-term.  Thus, with no long-term potential, I can see why you'd want to be compensated for your time and expenses.  From what you've said, the slave isn't of the mindset that your second meeting is a "pay for training" arrangement.  It's more likely the slave thinks that meeting again is a second chance at courting and romance.  This is the incongruence I see in your own mindset and in your plan.  Keep in mind that romantic partners generally don't bill one another because:  (1) each person's time is as valuable as the other, and (2) donating time and resources is part of how you communicate romantic and/or long-term interest.  

All of this said, before continuing, I think it advisable to examine your feelings.  If you think the slave has long-term potential (or at least want to meet a second time to clarify your feelings), share expenses equally or as you're both able.  I would not charge for my time (even if I had to book time away from work).  Flipping this around, if you don't feel there is long-term compatibility, don't put yourself in this position.  With differing agendas, meeting again is likely to be worse than the first time.  There is nothing wrong with asking for money in exchange for training, but this isn't the premise under which you two have been communicating.  If you decide to train for money, I'd start fresh with someone else and be clear about this up front.

About meeting in your home.  I've had first (and second) meetings at my home and at domme's homes.  This has never been a problem, however, I don't do this casually.  Before meeting, I spend a lot of time getting to know someone through email, postal letters, telephone, and (where possible) web camera.  Still, even if the plan is to meet at one of our home's, I prefer to meet in public first, such as at a restaurant or coffee shop.  If the chemistry feels okay on public ground, I'll proceed to the at-home meeting.  I also ask friends to call me and let the woman I'm meeting know that people will be calling to check my safety.

It is as dangerous to meet at someone else's home as it is your own.  When you're on someone else's turf, they have the advantage.  Thus, I like to see a reasonable degree of caution from a person who is coming to my home for a first meeting.  This tells me they value themselves and are thinking rationally.  However, note my use of the word "reasonable".  This is key.  If I get the feeling someone doesn't trust me and I've given them every reason to trust me, this is a warning sign.  It's a careful balance for which there is no scientific recipe.  Each partner must use their gut feelings and instincts.

So now we get to what I think is the fundamental issue here - gut feelings and instinct.  Only you know how you feel about this man and perhaps, as I alluded above, you're in a state of flux about him.  Ultimately, my advice is that you follow your gut feelings.  It really isn't a good idea to invite someone to your home who you don't feel comfortable with.  Likewise, if you're considering a second meeting worthwhile on the basis of making money or breaking even, I think you already have your answer.  I'm all for giving people second chances, but not when my instincts are screaming "no".

One option, if you feel stuck in a quandary, is to communicate exactly what you've written here.  Ask the slave to give feedback on your feelings:  "I am starting to think you're just looking for a sex partner to dominate you rather than a real Mistress/slave relationship;  I'm not willing to take on a slave who is only interested in indulging his pleasures at my expense/efforts".  Define what you mean by "real Mistress/slave relationship".  Getting the slave's feedback here will perhaps shed some light.  Also, evaluate what your feelings are regarding:  "he has visited me once and things did not go that well".  What didn't go well?  Can these things be rectified?  Do you want to make this type of investment in this person?  I'm sure you'll find answers here too.

The short of all this is:

1.) If you choose to meet at your home, I don't think you should ask for any fees.

2.) Only you can determine whether it is a good idea to meet again and if so, where.  Trust your feelings Luke.  The Force is strong in you. :-)

Good luck Saltwatergirl,

Elan.




GoddessTeaze -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 1:45:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Midgie

It sounds to me like you answered your own question.

While I don't see anything wrong with asking for a tribute as long as you are up front about it. I think you should follow your instincts.

Your gut is telling you no. So I would say, if you still want to do it, go to a hotel. Like others said it might be more difficult but it is certainly safer.


What She said,
trust ya own instinct!!!

GoddezzT`




ElanSubdued -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 3:04:36 PM)

Saltwatergirl,

I just re-examined this snippet from the OP:

quote:

Why would any slave expect to get a full week of training 24/7 which would be very demanding physically, mentally and emotionally for me - without having to offer me at least what the various trips would have cost?


I see the logic here, but in my mind this is flawed.  If I've read the remainder of the OP correctly, the slave offered to pay your travel expenses and hotel costs.  The slave did not offer to pay for your time.  There is a big difference between these two.  Treating someone on a trip is something I might offer a friend or romantic partner, but I'd never pay for their time (or expect them to pay for mine).  Now if someone could ill afford a week off, I might also offer to cover this.  Again, I'm not paying the person for their time, but rather treating them to a week off.  In my opinion, paying someone for their time makes the relationship professional.  In the context of BDSM, this usually means kinky play in return for money.  I see nothing wrong with you asking for compensation, but keep in mind this is likely to change the purpose and/or expectations of meeting (even if these are not discussed, which really, they should be).  For myself, if someone changed the premise this way, I'd say "no thanks".  Every person is unique though and thus your slave may feel differently.

Elan.




CdnExplorer -> RE: Need your opinion (1/8/2008 3:32:15 PM)

I'd have to agree with Elan. He isn't going to take the suggestion of paying for your time well given that the previous arrangement was on the level of making the experience a neutral cost for you and being a good host. It'll cause doubts about your intentions, whether you're genuinely interested in him or if he's just a client to you. Also when money gets involved like this it tends to change expectations. I know one Domme who was sent gifts without having asked for them, in return for online training. The next thing she knew the guy thought he had bought her and was his Mistress. It almost turned into a stalking situation, and the value of the gifts was far below $4000.

Given that you've spent time with him before and things didn't go well, it sounds like there are some reservations about the situation. I'd really suggest being careful. More so if he ends up paying tribute on top of expenses. A sub has cause to worry about going alone to someone's home, but a Domme can and often should have equal concern about some guy they don't know well coming to their home. If you can, have someone else present on the property while he's there or at least arrange for daily safe calls. The last thing I want to see on the local news is someone having been seriously harmed through involvement with bdsm. Things are far enough underground here as it is heh.




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