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Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 11:50:02 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Here, may I ask of you knowledgeable people here who have been so helpful in the past;

Is it possible to fuse molten glass to stainless steel?

The project being a glass handled knife.

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 11:57:04 AM   
Muttling


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Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		No, they have significantly different melting temperatures and rates of contraction during cooling.  If you can work with molten glass, then your best bet would be to wrap the glass around the steel or set it in a mold.   A small barb of some sort on the steell would be all you need to hold the handle in place.

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 11:59:28 AM   
sub4hire


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Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		No idea, my experience with molten glass ends in chemistry class. 
However if you do a search you come up with this.
"
Graphite Carbon Rods Used to make holes in fused glass. Put between layes of glass, fuse over it, and dig it out of the glass when done. Also they can be used to make custom tools by sanding and carving with a Dremel type tool. Carve a design into the end to make a custom stamp impression tool. Most ends are flat, a couple happen to have a tapered cone pointed end. Why Carbon? Most materials like metal will stick to molten glass. Carbon / Graphite has the unique property of not sticking to molten glass. It is the ideal material for pressing and shaping molten glass."

Which seems helpful...not the rods but the statement. 
http://www.sundanceglass.com/fused-glass-jewelry-materials.htm

Which only means, keep searching because it appears it is possible.  I have 3 broken fingers at the moment so that is the end of my searching for now.

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 12:08:01 PM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Thankyou for your searching despite your injury, your answers are very helpful.

I asked the question about fusing at college and that answer ranged from no, it will not work, to possibly.Me being experimental with an idea stuck in my heard er towards giving it a go.

You never know unless you try.

I have molten glass facilities at my disposal, the stainless as in a Swedish blade, I hope to form the glass handle upon, casting being a possibility in mind.

How to get a sinuous form in glass, well, it is surprising what use a condom can be put to, it filled with water and set into plaster to make a mould.

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 12:11:49 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
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Status: offline 		No problem...two of my fingers are old breaks...they swell with too much activity..one is today's break.  The pain is starting to subside, amazingly enough I can type relatively decent.  Its a different stance on the keyboard but I seem to have less typo's than typical.

Anyway during the search there was a page that said you could fuse all sorts of metals inside glass.
Just fusing to the surface..don't know.


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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 12:21:13 PM   
stef


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Status: offline 		If the blade's tang has voids or is transected where the molten glass could pass through and fuse with glass on the other side of the tang, there is a chance it could work.  If not, not so much.

~S


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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 12:28:43 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		~stef:

perhaps a T styled tang, or as you say a slot in the tang. or even bumps affixed to the tang, whichever is easier.

Ron 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 1/8/2008 12:30:01 PM >

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 3:22:49 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		I'll be having dinner tomorrow night with one of the senior metalsmiths from the Metal Museum. I'll ask then.

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/8/2008 3:32:19 PM   
Zensee


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Status: offline 		You might also consider if the temperatures needed to anneal the handle will affect the blade's temper and vice versa.


Z.


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RE: Glass and steel - 1/10/2008 12:40:51 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Talked to my friend, and yes, it can be done ('fused' being of course, a relative term). What is left on the end of the blowpipe after the finished glass product is cut off is molten glass fused to red hot metal.

The caveat is that it can be done with certain metals and certain glasses... and most of those metals are not the favorites for blade making. Stainless as commonly thought of would be a big problem. (Something to the effect of double layer of protective clothing, welders face shield, very long tongs...and then get someone else to handle the material for you).

So, whatever process you are currently using to forge your blades... once that is complete, weld on a different metal for a tang, and work the other end with the glass.

He also mentioned that the temperature expansion coefficients for glasses and metals can be looked up, and the ones which overlap are the ones you could start with. (OR, as he put it, grab a coke bottle and a piece of pipe, fire up your forge, and start experimenting). 

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 1/10/2008 1:02:01 PM >

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/10/2008 2:28:02 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Many thanks to you for taking the trouble to ask another, if there is an answer to my question.

I am aware of the glass that sticks to the end of the blow pipe after the required bit has been knocked off and know just how hot it gets near the end,the blowpipe in that place glowing a dull red heat, and I believe the blowpipes are made from stainless.

The thought was to try casting molten glass around the tang of a blade by simple sand and bentonite mold or kiln casting with fritand a plaster mold

Anyhows, it does give me food for though, I thank you Alumbrado, and all others who took the trouble to answer

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/10/2008 6:45:24 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Here, may I ask of you knowledgeable people here who have been so helpful in the past;

Is it possible to fuse molten glass to stainless steel?

The project being a glass handled knife.


What an awesome question!

There's a site...can't remember what it is...but it's all about people with questions (how to achieve some particular heretofore unachievable goal)...and then...like a Wiki I guess...people (or mulitple people) who then respond with a workable solution.

(Great minds and all that stuff).

It's actually a commercial site (those with queries offer X$ to resolve the issue)...it's quite interesting.

For instance...3 weeks ago someone offered the query..."I need to come up with a machine that can (mechanically/automatically/with some sort of machine) manufacture (standard red) bricks" (as opposed to, I presume, some outdated method which based on the query, must typically require some level of monolithic hand manufacturing).

There were all kinds of other queries relating to nano particles and any number of things I'm far too dense to respond to....but it was a great site...and as can be determined by the contrast between brick manufacturing and nano tubes....it's largely open to anyone with a question, interest, and a desire to find solutions.

I'll try to dig around...I may have saved it to favorites.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 1/10/2008 6:48:49 PM >

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RE: Glass and steel - 1/10/2008 10:23:27 PM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah you know, create the handle first with the insert place already designed, and crafted, then just form the glass into a blade with a long block you usually would have on a normal crafter sword blade base, little longer. Then just use a blow torch to melt it enough to insert and let sit till it hardens in some form of hold..

Important note I suggest pre heating the handle so its expanded out wards already, and staying away as it cools in case it shatters,
that way as it cools, oddly the metal handle will cool first compressing the molten glass already shoved into form, and make an almost seamless bond, if not loose with trial and error.


---errr make a whole in the blade with out ward slots, and push the melted glass end in like a form mold under pressure.---

< Message edited by MasDom -- 1/10/2008 10:28:38 PM >

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