Goverment attacks a family (Full Version)

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BigDaddyWyoming -> Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 5:54:05 PM)

SHORT STORY:
11 year old kid falls and hits head. Family evaluates kid and decides he doesn't need medical attention. Neighbor calls ambulance. Paramedics enter home uninvited, evaluate kid, determine that there is no obvious injury or impairment but wants the kid to go to the ER as a precaution. Family refuses.

Paramedics call Police, Sheriff, Family Protective Services in that order.

End Result - Swat team assaults home, subdues family members with guns and forces kid to get a medical evaluation...which determines that he suffered NO injury and releases him.

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FULL STORY:
NEW CASTLE - The Garfield County All Hazards Response Team broke down Tom Shiflett's door Friday night and, following a court order, took his son for medical treatment.

The doctor's recommendation: Take Tylenol and apply ice to the bruises. The boy was back home a few hours later.

Authorities said they had reason to believe Shiflett mistreated his 11-year-old son, Jon, by failing to provide him proper medical care for a head injury. But Shiflett says his privacy and his rights were invaded, and that he has the right and the skill to treat his son himself. Shiflett, 62, said he served as a medic in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive.

"Who in the world puts a stipulation on how adequate a person is to care for an injury?" Shiflett asked.

Speaking about the incident from his home in the Apple Tree Park on Monday, Shiflett was very upset. Perhaps most offensive, Shiflett said, was that law enforcement didn't announce there was a warrant before breaking into his home south of New Castle.

"I would have let them in," he said. "It was traumatic to my children, and it's unnecessary."

His spouse, Tina, and his six of 10 kids who are still at home were shocked at the manner of entry. Tina said law enforcement, wearing masks, broke down their door with a battering ram and pointed guns in her children's faces.

"They didn't need to bash into my home and slam my kids to the floor," Tina said, adding later, "I think they get a kick out of this."

She said law enforcement threatened criminal charges should the family even try to follow Jon or find out where he was taken. Jon was returned hours later, around 2:30 a.m. Saturday.

"In all there was not one shred of evidence found that we had done anything wrong or that Jon had not been properly cared for at home," Tina said.

According to a copy of Jon's patient aftercare instructions, a physician recommended Jon drink fluids, take Tylenol, use ice and keep his cuts from his injury clean. Jon still had a nasty-looking black eye and visible bruising on his face Monday after having been hurt in a fall on Thursday.

Jon injured himself by grabbing onto the handle of a moving car his sister was driving and falling. Shiflett and his family said Shiflett ran down the street, checked Jon for injuries and brought him back into their home, where they prayed, applied ice to his head and monitored his condition.

Someone - possibly a neighbor - called paramedics. Shiflett said paramedics looked at Jon after coming through an open front door uninvited. Shiflett told them he didn't want them to treat Jon and asked them to leave.

Friday morning, caseworkers from the Garfield County Department of Social Services arrived. Shiflett allowed them to look at Jon briefly but refused to allow them to take his son for treatment or medical evaluation.

Ross Talbott, who owns the Apple Tree Mobile Home Park and rents to Shiflett, said, "I thought it was an incredibly stupid power move by people who went in there misinformed and ill-informed. I think they violated their personal rights, their constitutional rights and their rights to family."

Talbott also writes a freelance column for the Post Independent.

"I've been (Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario's) longtime supporter, but I tell you what, to send a SWAT team down there was just absolutely over the hill," he said. "Inappropriate is not nearly strong enough a word. It was gross irresponsibility and stupidity. ... Is this Russia? I don't know what we're coming to when they think your kid needs medical help and they send a SWAT team."

Community relations sheriff's deputy Tanny McGinnis said two deputies were first sent to notify Shiflett of a court order for his son's medical treatment and that Shiflett did not comply.

Phone messages to Vallario were not returned Monday afternoon.

A search warrant and order for medical treatment says there was good reason to believe Jon needed treatment. It states that two social services caseworkers tried to explain to Tom Shiflett they believed the boy needed medical treatment after observing injuries including a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil. They offered to pay for treatment, and said they would have to obtain a court order for treatment if they couldn't get Shiflett's consent, the warrant says.

"Shiflett shouted at this worker and advised this worker that if he obtained a court order, he better 'bring an army,'" the warrant states.

A first responder with West Care Ambulance wrote in an affidavit that she and others in an ambulance crew also believed the boy needed medical treatment.

The responder wrote that paramedics left the residence for fear of their safety after Tom Shiflett refused to let them treat his son and became "verbally abusive" to the ambulance crew.

But Talbott said he was there when paramedics responded, and that Shiflett was not yelling or acting abusive. He only asked them to leave, Talbott said, and paramedics were in fact acting belligerent. Shiflett says authorities had no right to enter his home uninvited and without announcing they had a warrant.

"When American law allows federal and state agencies to come in a home and confiscate family, there is something wrong with our system," Shiflett said. "If I can find a law firm or lawyer that can take this pro bono, because I have no money, I'm going to sue everyone on that warrant."

Garfield County Director of Social Services Lynn Rennick said social services is legally required to intervene when it receives a report about possible mistreatment of children, and that sometimes court orders are necessary. She wouldn't discuss any specific case.

Asked what he thought of being taken for medical treatment after the break-in, Jon said, "I think it's ridiculous. There's no reason for it."
http://www.postindependent.com/article/20080108/VALLEYNEWS/248366321




Gwynvyd -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 6:22:35 PM)

I wonder how this story would have played out if someone in the family had beat the shit out of the kid.. which he looked like... and lied and said he "fell"

I wonder if the cops just said Ok.. no prob he fell... we understand, and then the person who beat the kid in the first place kills the kid upset the cops were called in.

I wonder what the news head lines would be then.

There are 2 sides to each story. As a mother and having a medical background I would want to treat my own child.. however having been on the force I realise how bad it would look if my sons face was bashed up, and with a black eye.. I would let him be seen just to ease folks concerns that he wasnt an abused child.

They carried it out badly.. and only gods knows what the neighbors told the police.. or if Dad or mom have a criminal background. All that could have played into it.

in otherwords... if your kid gets hurt and looks like shit. and the authorities want to be sure they are ok.. just let them check the kid out. as long as you dont change your story 20 times you should be good.

Kids get hurt.. but there are folks out there trying to make sure the kids are ok, and not in an abusive situation.

Trust me.. I have seen kids in abusive situations. You wouldnt wish that on any one.

Just my 2 cents.. feel free to flame..

Gwyn




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 6:48:45 PM)

Yeah just obey authority and get used to it. Sounds like a winner.




Moloch -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 7:28:56 PM)

I know a couple of towns in S.C. where the swat would be dead already.




BigDaddyWyoming -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 7:30:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

I wonder how this story would have played out if someone in the family had beat the shit out of the kid.. which he looked like... and lied and said he "fell"

only gods knows what the neighbors told the police.

Kids get hurt.. but there are folks out there trying to make sure the kids are ok, and not in an abusive situation.


Kid fell in the middle of the street for everyone to see. Government trying to control our lives plain and simple. Just ask them "we're just too stupid to know what's good for us". [sm=moon.gif]




defiantbadgirl -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 7:46:36 PM)

According to an old co-worker of mine, her young child was injured by falling off the couch and hitting his eye on corner of the coffee table. He was jumping on the couch (which she had repeatedly warned him about) when the injury occured. She refused to take her son to the ER because she said he looked like he had been punched in the eye and she didn't want to lose him to the state. Since then, I've talked to other parents who said they would have done the same thing in her situation.




subfever -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 7:47:38 PM)

We all need the government to protect us from every possible calamity. They know what we need more than we do. All we need to do is just submit to and obey authority, and we'll all do just fine... [sm=rolleyes.gif] 




sexyteddibare -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 7:50:36 PM)

and i thought America was the land of the free ...innocent untill proven guilty ...............




domiguy -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 7:53:35 PM)

"curveball" told the police, who hated the family anyways, that they were beating their kid.




Sanity -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 8:03:37 PM)

Once, my ex-wife (my wife at that time) dropped a hot glass casserole pan on our linoleum floor in our kitchen, and it broke, leaving little burn marks here and there on that floor.

Much later I'm separated, headed towards divorce, and I stupidly allowed a Deputy Sheriff into the house who had come around looking for her. I was being a nice guy and cooperating. She wasn't there, and I let him see like he asked.

Well, Deputy Dawg there had bad eyes and I guess those burn marks on the floor looked like dog shit or cat shit to him or whatever. Or at least, so he claimed. Next thing I know my home is swarming with Cops and Health and Welfare, I am being forced to sit on my couch with my kid while two other Deputies glare at me menacingly, and they're searching my fridge, my cupboards, my bedroom...
Never again.

I'll never cooperate voluntarily with the police again, ever.





MzMia -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 8:14:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

According to an old co-worker of mine, her young child was injured by falling off the couch and hitting his eye on corner of the coffee table. He was jumping on the couch (which she had repeatedly warned him about) when the injury occured. She refused to take her son to the ER because she said he looked like he had been punched in the eye and she didn't want to lose him to the state. Since then, I've talked to other parents who said they would have done the same thing in her situation.


Damn DBG, I did not realize people were that paranoid.
Come to think of it, I totally understand!
Why the hell does the government ALWAYS throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Every time.




MzMia -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 8:21:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Once, my ex-wife (my wife at that time) dropped a hot glass casserole pan on our linoleum floor in our kitchen, and it broke, leaving little burn marks here and there on that floor.

Much later I'm separated, headed towards divorce, and I stupidly allowed a Deputy Sheriff into the house who had come around looking for her. I was being a nice guy and cooperating. She wasn't there, and I let him see like he asked.

Well, Deputy Dawg there had bad eyes and I guess those burn marks on the floor looked like dog shit or cat shit to him or whatever. Or at least, so he claimed. Next thing I know my home is swarming with Cops and Health and Welfare, I am being forced to sit on my couch with my kid while two other Deputies glare at me menacingly, and they're searching my fridge, my cupboards, my bedroom...
Never again.

I'll never cooperate voluntarily with the police again, ever.




I totally understand how you feel also.
Before I separated from my husband we used to have a few "loud" arguments.
I am so lucky no one called the cops.
I asked a cop about domestic disputes and he said usually
they would take us both in.
I asked even if I was not the one at fault {husband breaking and throwing things}.
He said, yup they would take us both in and sort it out.
Ain't that some chit?




TheHeretic -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 8:30:42 PM)

       This is hardly the feds sticking a gun in Elian Gonzales' face.   Despite the heavy-handed police work, I'm going with Gwyn on this one.

      Children's Services might be the closest thing we actually have to a secret police in this country.  I know enough about the people they go after to almost be ok with that.  We have the right to deny them entry to a home, only on the first visit.  Once they have stepped through the door once, they are in control of the situation. 

      He let them examine the son.  The fact that the family stated they had prayed for the boy probably made it worse.  It's a red flag.  Every social worker knows that abuse rates are much higher among the sort of fundamentalist/charismatic Christian sects who, among other things, practice healing by laying on of hands.

      This guy has a wife and six kids, living in a trailer park rental.  I can completely understand his desire to avoid an ER bill.   As a combat medic, he has to know that head injuries can be funny things though.  The refusal to get it checked for free suggests to me that he'd decided to get into a little pissing contest about "his rights."  Bad choice.

      If there is blame to throw here, I'd point it at the paramedics.  Sounds to me like somebody got all offended by not being allowed to be the hero, and called CFS.  Once they get the call, they HAVE to investigate.




FangsNfeet -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 9:29:02 PM)

I'm all for a Forced Cout Order to have my kid get checked out at the hospital. After all, I wouldn't have to pay the bill. ER visits are expensive. I wouldn't pay the Ambulance either. I didn't call nor ask for 911 services.

When the court orders, that means that it's up to the state to pay the bill. It'll be a fun field trip for the kid. Ice cream and pop cicles. Not to mention, it would give me and the misses a little alone time.




FangsNfeet -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/8/2008 9:34:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyteddibare

and i thought America was the land of the free ...innocent untill proven guilty ...............


Bull Fucking Shit. Innocent untill proven guilty my arse. Every time I seen a woman or kid enter the ER with so much as a bruise, just about every nurse belived the accident was really a result of abuse.

Any man can come into the ER with a stab or Gun Shot wound and get away with saying it was an accident. One guy said it was his dog who knocked down the shot gun leaning up against a chair. For some reason, accidents can never happen to women or kids.

That's my experience in the ER.




lazarus1983 -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/9/2008 12:32:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

I wonder how this story would have played out if someone in the family had beat the shit out of the kid.. which he looked like... and lied and said he "fell"

I wonder if the cops just said Ok.. no prob he fell... we understand, and then the person who beat the kid in the first place kills the kid upset the cops were called in.

I wonder what the news head lines would be then.

There are 2 sides to each story. As a mother and having a medical background I would want to treat my own child.. however having been on the force I realise how bad it would look if my sons face was bashed up, and with a black eye.. I would let him be seen just to ease folks concerns that he wasnt an abused child.

They carried it out badly.. and only gods knows what the neighbors told the police.. or if Dad or mom have a criminal background. All that could have played into it.

in otherwords... if your kid gets hurt and looks like shit. and the authorities want to be sure they are ok.. just let them check the kid out. as long as you dont change your story 20 times you should be good.

Kids get hurt.. but there are folks out there trying to make sure the kids are ok, and not in an abusive situation.

Trust me.. I have seen kids in abusive situations. You wouldnt wish that on any one.

Just my 2 cents.. feel free to flame..

Gwyn


There you go again, you damn instigator! You and your crazy beliefs that there's more to this story than what is represented! It's true, there are two sides to every story, but that never pertains to a situation where people can hop on soapboxes and ridicule that faceless entity known as "authority" or "government." In those instances, as long as the story fits their preconceived notions, then there is never room for argument. EVER!!!

You bring up several good questions, which no one has yet to address. They just keep shouting "damn guv'ment!" because it's easier.




Lizbetbathory -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/9/2008 3:00:51 AM)

with gun powder ..treason....for both sides i was in state custody and saw a 11 yr old girl who had basically pimped out by her grandpa get sent back there.... and on the other side i get cases workers talking to me and security gaurds escorting  my 6'8 350 lbs SUBBIE out of the er room when i go in fora a dislocated joint beacuse some new doc or nurse or what ever hasnt heard of a genetic disorder i have.... either the gov' ment is too invovled or not at all we need to decide


man's downfall is his own humanity




KenDckey -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/9/2008 4:14:59 AM)

Parents now have a criminal (be it not convicted) record for child abuse.    Isn't that wonderful.




Sanity -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/9/2008 5:56:32 AM)

While wielding ultimate power over you, some "local authorities" can be bizarre and dysfunctional, a fact that's far more obvious to certain people only after they've been on the receiving end of such a disconcerting experience.

It can and does happen... and the only way I can relate what it's like to experience it first hand is to say that it feels like rape must feel. 




TankII7871 -> RE: Goverment attacks a family (1/9/2008 5:58:14 AM)

I see a lawsuit coming.  Bet he wont be living in a trailer park for long.

Eric




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