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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 2:02:33 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
(ie: they're not contracts).

In what way are they not contracts? They may not be legally binding in your jurisdiction, but that does not invalidate them as "contracts", just as "legally binding contracts".

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 2:16:49 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
(ie: they're not contracts).

In what way are they not contracts? They may not be legally binding in your jurisdiction, but that does not invalidate them as "contracts", just as "legally binding contracts".

Taggard

Main Entry:
1con·tract

Pronunciation:
\ˈkän-ˌtrakt\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin contractus, from contrahere to draw together, make a contract, reduce in size, from com- + trahere to draw
Date:
14th century
1 a: a binding agreement between two or more persons or parties; especially : one legally enforceable b: a business arrangement for the supply of goods or services at a fixed price <make parts on contract> c: the act of marriage or an agreement to marry2: a document describing the terms of a contract3: the final bid to win a specified number of tricks in bridge4: an order or arrangement for a hired assassin to kill someone <his enemies put out a contract on him> They are not binding agreements between parties (they are mere agreements without being bound in any way).They are not legally enforceable.They are not a business arrangement for the sale of goods or services.They are not an act of, or promise to, marriage.They are a document, but do not describe the terms of a contract as defined (but they do define the terms of an agreement).They are not a final bid to win a specified number of tricks in bridge.They are not a "hit" for hire. Given that they satisfy none of the criteria for the definition of a contract, I believe myself to be on sound logical ground in concluding that they are not contracts. BDSM has a sad history of manipulating and prostituting terms to suit "feelings" rather than realities. John

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 2:20:56 PM

szobras

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We are married, and also have a contract for this dynamic of structure. Certainly we have discussed and continue to communicate in great depth, to understand and clarify are thoughts and feelings. The written word does however lend itself to aid in the very least a clear reminder of that which has been discussed , clarified and committed to on various points as has been previously said.

< Message edited by szobras -- 1/9/2008 2:23:12 PM >

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 2:22:56 PM

Rover

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Main Entry:
agree·ment

Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈgrē-mənt\
Function:
noun
Date:
15th century
1 a: the act or fact of agreeing b: harmony of opinion, action, or character : concord
2 a: an arrangement as to a course of action b: compact treaty
3 a: a contract duly executed and legally binding b: the language or instrument embodying such a contract

They are not a contract duly executed and legally binding.

-- BUT --

They are an arrangement as to a course of action.
They are an act or fact of agreeing, representing a harmony of opinion and action.

Given that they satisfy the criteria for the definition of an agreememnt, I believe myself to be on sound logical ground in concluding that they are agreements. No manipulation or prostitution required.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 1/9/2008 2:25:45 PM >

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 4:00:15 PM

MadRabbit

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It's the same concept that I put into practice when I write a "To Do" List in the morning. It clearly outlines the direction and structure of how I want things to go and makes it easier to keep focused on goals.

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 4:59:08 PM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
BDSM has a sad history of manipulating and prostituting terms to suit "feelings" rather than realities.

So true.

quote:

Given that they satisfy the criteria for the definition of an agreememnt, I believe myself to be on sound logical ground in concluding that they are agreements. No manipulation or prostitution required.

John

This is what i was thinking, too. If some like to have things spelled-out in a written document, why not call it a Written Agreement or maybe, a Letter of Understanding instead of a "Contract"? Of course, they would still not be legally binding, either.

Here's an example to consider:

Letter of Understanding

Between _______________________________

and ____________________________________

"This letter of understanding is the result of a deliberative negotiation process between the parties, _____________ and _____________. It is understood and acknowledged by the parties that this letter of understanding is not itself a legally-binding document and is not enforceable in a court of law. It is further understood and acknowledged by the parties that their signing of this letter of understanding indicates only that the document accurately reflects the points of agreement created by the parties through mutual discussion and negotiation. This document may be rescinded and considered to be null and void, at any time, by either party."

Purpose: The purpose of this letter is to specify the terms and conditions under which the parties, __________________ and ________________ ........................................

Ownership: (if any) _________________ is the owner of ______________ and property rights.........................

Activities: (or some such term)

Restrictions or Prohibitions: (or some such term, if any)

Confidentiality: (or some such term) Parties will maintain the absolute confidentiality of each other and their activities............
(Keep things quiet. What happens here, stays here, etc.)

Sharing: (or some such term, if any)

Violations: (or some such term) Violation of this agreement by either party..........

Disputes: (or some such term) Disagreements which may arise shall be settled by means of ........

Other: (Additional stipulations, if any, as desired.)

Date: __________________________________________

Signed: ________________________________________

This was just an idea that some might want to consider. i don't know what language to use or what should be put in one of these things. This might not even be what people are looking for but, hey, it's something to consider.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 8:06:44 PM

ksub4u

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To the OP - didn't you discuss a contract with your Master before entering 24/7 with him, or was this something he didn't see a need for?

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 8:51:11 PM

sexyred1

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I think it all depends on whether your Master is real or imaginary.

An imaginary Master would only be able to write a contract in invisible ink, so the contract would not be legally binding.

Food for thought....

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 9:05:23 PM

takenbyjohnr07

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We talked and discussed for a very long time. For us things are simple. He is my first and he has been a Master for over 23 years and he sees no need nor do i for a contract. We see a lot of things in the same way which makes it easier and we're in love as a vanilla couple as well so we incorporate everything into that too. We don't play or scene. It's the way we live our life daily. We kind of just fall into it naturally and in all the time i have been with him. i have not had to change or clarify anything. We do both want marriage and we both want a collaring ceremony when the time is right. i hope i've answere you correctly. If not please feel free to let me know. thanks/

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 9:10:04 PM

CalifChick

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Live life daily... apart? Fall into it... apart?

Sigh.

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 9:17:12 PM

ksub4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07
We talked and discussed for a very long time. For us things are simple. He is my first and he has been a Master for over 23 years and he sees no need nor do i for a contract. We see a lot of things in the same way which makes it easier and we're in love as a vanilla couple as well so we incorporate everything into that too. We don't play or scene. It's the way we live our life daily. We kind of just fall into it naturally and in all the time i have been with him. i have not had to change or clarify anything. We do both want marriage and we both want a collaring ceremony when the time is right. i hope i've answere you correctly. If not please feel free to let me know. thanks/

Okay, understood. You don't feel the need for a contract - some people do for the purpose of communication. It's a way to lay the cards out on the table, so to speak, and state where they stand with one another, expectations, needs, desires, whatever. It means something for the people signing the contract. It may be a symbol of their relationship, just the same way a marriage license or collaring ceremony would be for you. Just another way of looking at it.

It certainly doesn't mean there's a lack of trust in the relationship, as you questioned in your opening post. <snip>"Does that mean that you don't trust the other person to abide by what the two of you have already decided on when you discuss what each other wants and needs?"<snip> Please remember that just because something isn't done the way you prefer or have decided to handle it doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong or negative in it.

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 9:29:34 PM

takenbyjohnr07

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i was just asking, because i was curious.

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 9:38:05 PM

darkpassenger434

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I think that the whole contract or pact process helps you think about what you want and can accept. I think it also helps with possible arguements or misunderstandings. I've also found that symbols are good in relationships. Symbols of commitment, of control, of submission, or whatever. A contract can be all of these things. I might be a little biased though. As an amateur caligrapher I am in a position to put some real work into the actual physical contract, make it art with real meaning.
-R
PS - married couples already sign a contract regarding the nature of their vanilla relationship, why should their kink be any different?

< Message edited by darkpassenger434 -- 1/9/2008 9:41:39 PM >

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 9:38:07 PM

ksub4u

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Oh, ok!

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 10:05:38 PM

takenbyjohnr07

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:)

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 10:14:17 PM

Maynard

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sooo....are we saying I can't take someone to Judge Judy for breaking a BDSM contract?

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 10:19:11 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maynard

sooo....are we saying I can't take someone to Judge Judy for breaking a BDSM contract?

If anyone does, please let me know so I can watch that one.

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 10:23:15 PM

ksub4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maynard

sooo....are we saying I can't take someone to Judge Judy for breaking a BDSM contract?

If anyone does, please let me know so I can watch that one.

That sounds like a great SNL skit! Who was it that used to do Judge Judy?

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 10:28:19 PM

takenbyjohnr07

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Signing a marriage license is not a kink. It is a requirement of the law, it says nothing about how the couple will live or conduct their lives. that is for the ceremony if they chose it to be. Now if You're talking about a prenup. That's a different story.

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RE: Contracts - 1/9/2008 10:38:05 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

Signing a marriage license is not a kink. It is a requirement of the law, it says nothing about how the couple will live or conduct their lives. that is for the ceremony if they chose it to be. Now if You're talking about a prenup. That's a different story.

Contracts aren't always a kink either (I suspect someone with a kink for paperwork would get some enjoyment out of the marriage contract) and to some extent a marriage does define how people will live their lives. You can support a girlfriend for 10 years so she never needs to work and just dump her randomly. If you do that to a wife, you have to pay spousal support. For some people, slave/submissive contracts are the equal of "marriage contracts", just as some people choose not to marry but have a collaring ceramony.

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