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Bigots - 1/9/2008 10:10:17 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		After a couple of other threads it came to me. I have been described as a racist, and have never denied that. But I am in no way a bigot, which basically means that I have no delusions of grandeur. My ancestors' accompishments are not mine, only my accomplishments are mine.

Well there was a time when I was not so enlightened, and I knew some "fag bashers". That is a gang of guys who when they had the spare time, would go around the gay bars and start shit with gays, crossdressers, pretty much anybody. I never went with them, but I knew them.

Add to that this thought, the old Man who used to chide the teen for his long hair. They forgot to mention that the old Man was bald.

There is alot more but I don't have all night. The point is that anyone getting pissed at kinksters or gays, is afraid. Afraid of their own desires, and those who appear to have the most vehemence are the most insecure. You find this shit out when you know people for fifteen twenty years. I have more but I would suspect you just don't want it now, so I will change up.

Jealousy is usually the problem. How do you feel when you get a speeding ticket when a car just passed you at double your speed ?

So I submit that, in the psychological sense, this desire to stamp out others who are different than one's self is rooted in fear. Yes, you heard me, going out and beating people up is because the beaters are afraid. Sounds wierd I know, but I think it true.

All the things I have seen and heard in my life, they indicate that people who shun kink or bi/homo generally, I would say possibly half of them are jealous. How many will admit to it is another story.

Think about it yourself in another context. Do you admire or hate the rich ? When I look a Man in the eye it is the same, he can be George Bush or Jesus Christ,  I have some tough questions for each. But that's me.

The point is, I think bigotry is based in cowardess, in wanting to be in the majority, on the side that's winning. That is the whole point. When you take the side that is losing, call me. When you fight when you are not assured of winning, when you actually take risk, when you put it on the line, call me.

I have a saying - You have to be willing to lose to win.

But most people will just go along with the mainstream, get the latest videogames and all the bullshit. Go kick some fag's asses and be home for dinner.

I read an encouraging story from England where this goes on all the time. This dude, a TG or whatever, kicked the shit out of three guys. She wailed on them, and I guess not with her purse.

But the point is why did they strart shit in the first place ?

Put your drink down now.

They wanted to be doing what she is doing. The root of this violence is jealousy, nothing more, nothing less. The perps do not have the freedom in their lives, or maybe their minds to do what she has done. They wish they could but they can't, and the more violent they get, the more it shows. And they are ashamed of it.

Perhaps they have not yet recieved the message that you only live once.

What say you ?

T
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RE: Bigots - 1/9/2008 10:15:33 PM   
tinoketsheli


Posts: 50
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sorry, i dont understand your question.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Bigots - 1/9/2008 10:17:53 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline 		You're probably not drunk enough.  But then again, I don't know that enough alcohol exists on this planet to make someone that drunk.

~stef


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RE: Bigots - 1/9/2008 10:27:13 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		people going out and hurting others because they are different is done out of fear..

sometimes the fear is of their own desires, they are jealous

I can't make it much plainer than that.

T

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RE: Bigots - 1/9/2008 10:46:45 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Well racists are also acting out of fear or jealously,  so how do you differ?

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 12:07:35 AM   
tinoketsheli


Posts: 50
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		I would that people go out and hurt each other based off many different factors - intolerance, personal affiliation, bad mood, education level, etc, all these - as well as fear - breed racism in my opinion.

(in reply to Maya2001)
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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 2:47:29 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Well when I was young I used to think that a multi cultural society would be a good thing.
Now I am older I know it is not.

There is all the difference in the world between discrimination based on experience and vicious violent personal abuse based on ignorance or fear.
Show me a person who claims he/she does not discriminate and I will show you someone who is running for political office or is as thick as two planks ie no insight into their own behaviour, or is a liar !

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 4:53:25 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

There is all the difference in the world between discrimination based on experience and vicious violent personal abuse based on ignorance or fear.



But - if one has experience of such and such a group being a bad lot, is vicious violence against it then justified?

I see prejudice as a natural instinctual reaction to warn us of possible danger - something in the environment has changed, and it could be dangerous for us. We then tread carefully and ascertain the situation - if nothing bad happens then we return to our normal state and the object of prejudice is accepted into our environment. If something bad happens though, it lays down a record in our minds - if the same change in environment happens again in future then we will naturally be fearful and fight/flight reactions will ensue. This is how I see the whole thing happening in a natural way, with all animals - us included.

The peculiar problem we have as humans is that we can communicate the idea of danger from a situation such that we dont have to experience it directly ourselves to lay down a record in our minds that we should fight or flee if we come across it. This is useful to us of course - I have never walked into a tiger enclosure, but I dont need to do that to know it would be dangerous because of the experience of others of doing so which has been communicated to me. But its also a negative, in that in less obviously dangerous situations we are just as likely to follow the advice given to us, and we rarely question those with experience who have informed us of the danger, because to do so constitutes a risk to us.

And then we come to the various philosophies of mankind that have pervaded for centuries. Notably in our case the bible, which informs us of all manner of dangers from dealing with those not of our group. As a culture we have swallowed whole much of this advice where it has to do with other people, but surprisingly little regarding what foods to avoid. We have been educated to fear difference - and by a collection of books which in the one half classifies us as the danger and in the other preaches love for all (in our group), and which in its entirety is utterly alien to us.

So when we see our first ethnically different person, when we encounter someone from a different culture, when we see someone dressed inappropriately or acting out of the norm for our group, or speaking a different language - our inbred reaction is fear and then fight or flight. Not because we necessarily have bad experience of such people, but because we have been educated to fear difference by the cultural environment in which we live.

Many of us soon realise that there is in fact no danger of course. But those with lower amounts of processing capacity in their minds never get to the stage of actually testing the received wisdom. Instead they fight or flee, and in many cases it is the former rather than the latter, since the different person they encountered is alone or in a smaller group.

E

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 5:16:29 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Wow. This one post has my vote for "Most rambling, nonsensical diatribe." But then, it's only January.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 5:38:12 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		why thanks Bipolarber! I thought I'd written it pretty well, but I have only had two coffees so far
E

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 5:43:55 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know an overabundance about you but what I do know is you are not a bigot.
You have real concerns...simple as that.  Due to life circumstances.
Is that jealousy, not the way I define jealousy.
We all grow up different, we all have different shit we have to muddle through most of our lives.  It does jade us.
The people I am worried about being bigots right now are a few of our presidental candidates who have not tried to hide the fact whatsoever.

I have a problem with people who hate because they don't understand.  No matter who they are.



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 6:03:35 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Bipolarber:Who do you mean.?
If LadyE then its water pistols at dawn lol
If Termy then you might be right. lol times 2

By the way multi cultural societies dont fail when people are judged as individuals, it is the collective  that causes the schism.
Thus you have different group attitudes to families, women, education , work ethic, religion  , treatment of animals, foreign policy now that we have significant Muslim population, censorship, freedom of sexual expression things like that all causing  different groups to go their own ways.
The class divide and the cultural divide are unbridgeable.

PC Liberals, many who play the class card by believing that if the "workers" appreciated  education and the theatre more, for example, would necessarily be better people naively assume that what has never happened across the class barrier, ie integration, will magically happen if different cultures are thrown together.
In fact, laughably, I have just realised that what PC Liberals and earnest middle class do gooders really think is that if everybody was as they perceive themselves to be then all would be well.
One consequence would be that differences no longer exist ie a homogenous society

It never has happened and it never will.
examples: SriLanka, Israel/Arab. Murderous tensions in India/Pakistan, Indonesia Tribal conflict, latest = Kenya, in Africa. et ceteraah, et ceteraaah, et ceteraaah

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/10/2008 6:05:56 AM >

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 8:17:55 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Here is how I see it.  Me, this state, this conuntry- can be dynamic, stellar, outstanding, great, prosperous, ok- at the same time you, your state, your country can concurrently be dynamic, etc.  One does not take away from eachother -in fact it enhances it.

ok- now not ever person blends well with the other- personality conflict.  With that known, dont put oneself in a bad situation.

Would I take someones parking space?  Hell yeah I would.

cont in new thread on a riddle-

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 8:55:53 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		" people going out and hurting others because they are different is done out of fear.."

This has been happening since man existed.  it will never end.  There is way too much hate in the world.  i have experienced the above statement many times(being the one that got hurt badly).


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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 9:11:35 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I’m afraid you all give our species too much credit for thinking there is a reason for our actions.
I have this theory it is called …Three Monkeys and a Banana. It explains all that’s humane.
In every humane interaction…makes no difference what it is…. the biggest monkey will always get the banana. If there is not a biggest than two will gang up on the third. They will NEVER share equally. It is just built into us to act this way.
There may be hundreds of banana on the trees but they will still fight over the one.
There is no reason for fear of gays or crossdressers for instance… it is just the two monkeys ganging up on the third. We like it and want it that way...always have always will.

Now if I could just get this monkey off my back

Butch

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 10:01:25 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Bipolarber:Who do you mean.?
If LadyE then its water pistols at dawn lol
If Termy then you might be right. lol times 2

By the way multi cultural societies dont fail when people are judged as individuals, it is the collective  that causes the schism.
Thus you have different group attitudes to families, women, education , work ethic, religion  , treatment of animals, foreign policy now that we have significant Muslim population, censorship, freedom of sexual expression things like that all causing  different groups to go their own ways.
The class divide and the cultural divide are unbridgeable.

PC Liberals, many who play the class card by believing that if the "workers" appreciated  education and the theatre more, for example, would necessarily be better people naively assume that what has never happened across the class barrier, ie integration, will magically happen if different cultures are thrown together.
In fact, laughably, I have just realised that what PC Liberals and earnest middle class do gooders really think is that if everybody was as they perceive themselves to be then all would be well.
One consequence would be that differences no longer exist ie a homogenous society

It never has happened and it never will.
examples: SriLanka, Israel/Arab. Murderous tensions in India/Pakistan, Indonesia Tribal conflict, latest = Kenya, in Africa. et ceteraah, et ceteraaah, et ceteraaah


Seeks, I agree, "multi-culturalism" just doesn't work.
I moved here to S. Carolina three years ago from New Hampshire and I noticed that "segregation" is alive and well in the South.
Only it's not the "state imposed segregation" of the old days it's the type of segregation where people just want to be with their own kind.
I think it's just natural that people want to be with other people who are like themselves.
We have "all black" and "all white" and "all oriental" churches here!
Of course they don't "exclude" anyone but then they don't have to.
When the state tries to "put different peoples together" it never works.
I really don't think it's "the state's" job description to be doing things like that in the first place.
Leave "social engineering" to The People not the state.
"The State" is real good at turning things like that into a tower of Babel.
I'd rather see those monies used more effectively for more police or fire dept vehicles and personel.
I just don't want my elected public officials or judges getting involved in that type of thing. It has the ring of The People being dictated to by "the state".
I'm a big proponent of  having "Job Descriptions" in government!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/10/2008 10:06:13 AM >

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 10:08:11 AM   
KRANWEST


Posts: 158
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		The right-wing whackjob's "fag-hatred" is another home-grown expression of "relative righteousness."

While your run-of-the mill, Wal-Mart shopping, Huckabee-crazed pseudochristian can (in most cases) point out the exact passages in Leviticus that condemn buggery and carpet-munching, they seem to conveniently disregard the words of our Lord and Savior in Luke 16:15.

Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts; for that which is highly esteemed before men is an ABOMINATION before God.
 
Pay careful attention to this tiny passage of divine origin, folks, because it applies to everyone here.  That which is highly esteemed before men is an ABOMINATION before God.  Holy shit, boys and girls!!!  That means that EVERYONE'S soul is in danger of potential hellfire: everyone who fornicates; everyone who amasses exorbitant wealth; every soldier in Iraq, who, against the dictates of Biblical doctrine and a clear conscience chases after those "gosh-darn terrorists".

It's easy for bigots and half-ass Christians to defame swishy, glory- hole drilling "queers", and use them for whipping boys in the public arena; however, it ain't nearly as easy for them to realize that the P-Town crowd might have a better shot at salvation than sanctimonious televangelists.





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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 10:16:42 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Urban vs rural- big difference.  I find that rural offerrs -well- for the most part people abide by the golden rule. It may be petty but- people are more accountable for their actions.  Now mind you I live in a 4 county valley of 200,000.  -so this is rural as comapred to Chicags southside suburbs- -Get THIS.  I wanderred up to the northern tier [of PA] a place more rural then the valley.  [higher elevations get more snow---]  anyhow I got lost. What a difference the people are.... I asked for directions-- the lady drove and said to follow her [out of her way] 10 minutes... to make sure I made it to my destination.  I was so flatterred

I thought- what a lovely place to live.

*sighs*

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 10:21:16 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Kranwest, that's why I don't read the bible, you can make it say anything you want it to say.
I think God made sex fun for a reason.

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RE: Bigots - 1/10/2008 12:25:24 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If there is not a biggest than two will gang up on the third. They will NEVER share equally. It is just built into us to act this way.



This sounds like your man John Nash..."people will always act out of self-interest"......problem being that his own experiments designed to prove this, actually suggested the opposite...Prisoners Dilemma?

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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