RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters

RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (Full Version)

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sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl i'm neither a hyporcite or contradicting myself - remember you're the who is confused that cannot figure out i have 2 separate relationships with 2 separate Dominants which is neither poly or otherwise. i'm not cheating on either dominant and never will. neither dominant has never or ever will co-dominate together. like i said - i cannot get any plainer and simplier than that for you. my question to you is again - where does your so-called confusion lay? again i request that you address it offline which you have blatantly refuse - otherwise move along and get over it. I imagine the confusion lies in simply trying to understand your judgemental and contradictory posts where you make blanket statements with no regards to how possibly things might not add up in your black and white view. However, I am curious. What exactly constitutes "sex" and "cheating" in your view? Vaginal penetration? Anal penetration? Oral sex? Penetration with a dildo? A hand job? A pair of nipple clamps? Hot wax? A spanking? A massage that might have some erotic tones? Kissing? Hugging? Touching? Where is the line drawn that somehow makes your intimacy you share with your two partners "okay" and everyone elses "not okay"? I would love to hear all about it. cheating to me (as raised in the solid religious background all my life) is what i highlighted. i was raised to believe that marriage is between 2 people - not 3 or more. doing any or all of those activities highlighted with another person NOT your spouse - it's cheating. and before i get flamed again about my relationships concerning this - i'm neither married to Daddy ...just His daughter SOLELY ...nothing more or less. i shall ONLY be married my SO in which i shall ONLY cleave unto him and NO OTHER - meaning Daddy shall remain as a Father-figure in my life.

beargonewild -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:17:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnOcala No cheating of any kind can be tolerated. End of sentence, There is no more. DONE. As an observation and keeping witin the OP's topic. I find it is curious that the cheater is condemmed yet not much was said pertaining to the the other person involved in the affair?

juliaoceania -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:22:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild quote: ORIGINAL: KnOcala No cheating of any kind can be tolerated. End of sentence, There is no more. DONE. As an observation and keeping witin the OP's topic. I find it is curious that the cheater is condemmed yet not much was said pertaining to the the other person involved in the affair? While I do not think much of people that aid and abetting cheating by being the party that a cheater uses to cheat with, the "other" person isn't the person that is being unfaithful or actively engaging in deceiving someone that trusts them... so perhaps that is the reason most people do not judge the accomplice quite so harshly?

beargonewild -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:26:34 PM)
Yet the way I'm thinking is the "other" person is just as guilty as the cheater.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:26:59 PM)
The other person involved may indeed be doing something immoral, if they are aware the person they are with is lying and cheating on another. That being said, the other person involved is not the one who made promises or commitments to the one being cheated on. That makes their own crime lessor. (or non-existant, such as in the case of Amber Frey who dated Scott Peterson thinking he was single when he was, in fact, married.) ~Christina of course, if you know that the person you are with is lying to another, and exposing him/her to your actions by sleeping with both of you, you do have a duty to cease or disclose imo...

beargonewild -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:29:23 PM)
Good point, thanks.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:33:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl i'm neither a hyporcite or contradicting myself - remember you're the who is confused that cannot figure out i have 2 separate relationships with 2 separate Dominants which is neither poly or otherwise. i'm not cheating on either dominant and never will. neither dominant has never or ever will co-dominate together. like i said - i cannot get any plainer and simplier than that for you. my question to you is again - where does your so-called confusion lay? again i request that you address it offline which you have blatantly refuse - otherwise move along and get over it. I imagine the confusion lies in simply trying to understand your judgemental and contradictory posts where you make blanket statements with no regards to how possibly things might not add up in your black and white view. However, I am curious. What exactly constitutes "sex" and "cheating" in your view? Vaginal penetration? Anal penetration? Oral sex? Penetration with a dildo? A hand job? A pair of nipple clamps? Hot wax? A spanking? A massage that might have some erotic tones? Kissing? Hugging? Touching? Where is the line drawn that somehow makes your intimacy you share with your two partners "okay" and everyone elses "not okay"? I would love to hear all about it. cheating to me (as raised in the solid religious background all my life) is what i highlighted. i was raised to believe that marriage is between 2 people - not 3 or more. doing any or all of those activities highlighted with another person NOT your spouse - it's cheating. and before i get flamed again about my relationships concerning this - i'm neither married to Daddy ...just His daughter SOLELY ...nothing more or less. i shall ONLY be married my SO in which i shall ONLY cleave unto him and NO OTHER - meaning Daddy shall remain as a Father-figure in my life. But you are the one who stated on another thread that there had already been times set up to spend with your daddy that were almost "sacred" and that you would still be following the guidance of your "Daddy". Yet it seems to me...and this is just MY opinion only...that if I am the hubby-Dom, the one taking responsibility for the wife-submissive, then MY orders take precedence, MY thoughts take precedence, MY wants and needs and desires take precedence over any other dominant involved in the submissive's life in any fashion. So...if Daddy says that hubby-Dom is wrong for punishing you about something? And should you, in the context of a closed marriage and D/s relationship, take everything to Daddy? I know I never did with my real parents when there was something going on in my marriage...leads to resentment on the part of the parent involved and the spouse...and rightfully so in both cases.

Suleiman -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:36:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist In other words, the kink now takes priority. The wife won't do it-rather than sacrifice the kink "needs" of the cheater, they find someone else to do it with. It's called "being a hedonistic asshat". Hey! I take umbrage at that! Not only were asshats a traditional means of keeping warm in wintertime, Hedonism has always been at its core an intrinsically moralistic philosophy which had as it's only arguable weak point an implicit belief in the essential goodness and empathy of human beings.

moonvine -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:37:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I've never thought that lifestyle people are more honest or trustworthy than the general population. I'm not even sure where that thinking got started. Well, I think it got started because if you are a member of a group, whether that be stay at home moms, a sorority, the BDSM community or what have you there is going to be a collective tendency amongst the members of the group to see themselves as superior to the rest of society. I'm an animal rescuer, and some people in the animal rescue "community" are some of the nastiest, foulest, most evil people in existence, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them and they will lie at the drop of a hat. Some of them are very nice and I'd trust them with my life (and have).

Leatherist -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:41:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Suleiman quote: ORIGINAL: Leatherist In other words, the kink now takes priority. The wife won't do it-rather than sacrifice the kink "needs" of the cheater, they find someone else to do it with. It's called "being a hedonistic asshat". Hey! I take umbrage at that! Not only were asshats a traditional means of keeping warm in wintertime, Hedonism has always been at its core an intrinsically moralistic philosophy which had as it's only arguable weak point an implicit belief in the essential goodness and empathy of human beings. Replace goodness and empathy with self-service and a willful refusal to do the right thing (but rationalize why doing evil is proper)-and you have the sort of hedonist of which I speak in this thread. They are not good people-they are users.

RCdc -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:42:29 PM)
I don't agree with the 'other' persons responsibility being lesser, but different. Not all cheaters happen to be married, some could be in a relationship and then there is no 'promise' other than they are in a relationship. Either way, I do not see less blame on either side personally. But them, I don't tend to place 'blame' on one side myself. All relationships when cracks are showing have at least two people involved. the.dark.

Prinsexx -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:43:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wyrd More often than not the "long-time bdsm'ers" are living some form of deception as well, Deception as a form of trying to protect one's identity is not the same as ltelling lies about pertners. i'm sorry but it's not. I consider myself an honest person, so much so that I have been outed and sufferred more than once. In fact the advise i have been given is to deceive 'more' in order to protect my identity. This does not mean that I would become a liar or unethical. I know this sounds a contradiction. If we were all totallty honest we would all be out and have our real names, addresses, sgoe sizes and doctor's details printed on our profiles.... I think it is all a matter pf personal conscience...that is for those who have a conscience.....

Suleiman -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 2:52:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Yet the way I'm thinking is the "other" person is just as guilty as the cheater. I have to agree with blushes here. Despite the guilt you may personally feel for the involvements you have had in the past, Bear, the pursued in these affairs is not so guilty as the one persuing. If you had knowingly seduced a married man, that's one thing, but succumbing to the wiles of a married man who is stepping out on his betrothed is something else entirely. All I can say is, if you have regrets, it's a good indication that that is something you probably ought to not do again. People are prone to have affairs. That's one of the reasons my wife and I are in an open relationship. We acknowleged this peculiarity in human nature and negotiated accordingly. Not everyone is so open-minded. Most people fall into the aforementioned fairy-tale ideal, and then are disillusioned when tinkerbell has wings of clay. Some people are just predatory scum. Most don't discover their kinky needs until they're already deeply entrenched in a relationship with someone who can not - or will not - fulfill those needs. Now, the clarion cry of "It's Human Nature" is no defense, but it is the core explanation. Most people lack the self-awareness to really decide what they need in life. If my wife and I had sworn to the happily ever after contract, we'd be divorced by now. I am, by inclination, possessive, jealous, and quite fidelitous. In a monogamous setting, I can be quite content with someone. I am also seriously into kink, way deeper than my wife is willing to go. My wife, on the other hand, hasn't got a monogamous bone in her body. These sorts of disconnects are all too common. We decided that our marriage was more important than little things like who was getting a little side-action. Most folks can't see that far ahead. Putting blinders on and diving for the fantasy is part of human nature too. When these two things collide, you get lying, cheating, and the hot rush of blood to the cheeks as a person denounces everyone else in the room for being a deviant and then proclaims that they did not come to this place to be judged by the likes of the rest of us. To paraphrase Christ Rock, I'm not saying that it's right, I'm not saying that it's okay, I'm just saying that I understand.

adoracat -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 3:06:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl confused where? i'm not cheating on either dom - i have 2 ...dos, deux, two seperate relationships where with Daddy, it's not sexual. yes i'm getting married to my SO and no it won't be cheating on him since Daddy will remain as Daddy in my life. Still confused. How is that any different to open relationships? Sex has nothing to do with it. Take that out of the equasion because many open relationships only have sex in one of the relationships. the.dark. huzzah. the open honest relationship i have with my husband? does NOT include sex at his wishes. no, its not what i want. yes, there are a lot of things broken, and yes should it come to that, i do have an "elsewhere" to go to. but i still love the asshole. (that's his self-description.) so...yeah. sighs kitten

beargonewild -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 3:07:12 PM)
I don't know if it's a failing on my part or maybe I don't feel much regret. I do admit that the 3 I was involved with, I did have full knowledge they were married and yes I made the choice to get involved anyway. Yet in all cases, I didn't deliberately set my sights on them. Yet as I look back over my actions and saw how I learned a lesson from each, as they happened over 20 years ago. I do see the bad judgement I made with 2 of the affairs and that also opened my eyes on the fact I wasn't meant to be a monogamous person myself. Those experiences taught me that my actions can and do have serious repercussions. Which is what guides me when I do get involved with a person who is "married" I think long and hard before I get involved and IF I get involved. edited to add: yes I know I was singling myself out when I commented about the other person not being condemmed but wanted to express my opinion from my side

AtlantaMistress -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 3:19:50 PM)
just curious - what exactly is "cheating"...as a Pro Domme (yes - of course this makes me a money grubbing unethical bitch to some just in itself I realize [:(] ) when I was finding my way and not as selective as I can be, I often had married men who very much wanted to keep their family in tact but had this void because of their kink. Usually, they had not told their wife because of fear she would see them as completly perverted, or they had tried at one point to tell the wife who did think it was weird and/or perverted. To me (and perhaps how I rationalized and could sleep at night - but I still feel like it is valid) I was helping them fill that void that could perhaps give them a sense of happiness that could extend to other areas of their life, and their "family" was never in jeopardy. I would never be jealous, cause drama, or try to take them from their relationships, and if they were determined (enough to pay my tribute) that they were going to do this, better me than a "mistress", not a Domme, in a personal relationship who may do just that. It would make sense that many pro Dommes deal with married men much more than those in the lifestyle. I have to add that I was completely off limits and the closest thing to "sexual" activity was forced masturbation, with me telling them how and when, but rarely giving them permission to release (at least until they had done it quite a few times - being told to squeeze testicles and pull away from body) and most often, the release would not be in my presence (unless by accident - in which case they would have to eat it). This still brings up the question of honesty, but what they did or didn't tell their wives was not my business. Fortunately, I have had the ability to become incredibly selective with who I see. Recently, I had a sub I very much enjoyed, have seen for quite some time, and thought he was divorced tell me they had been separated more than 2 years (referred to her as his ex) and that he was going through a 6 month reconciliation attempt. I know in this case that this man had TRULY submitted to me, and did BELONG to me in a sense, and told him I couldn't see him while he was going through that. I felt like it wouldn't be fair to his marriage since I knew how much I was in his head. It is more complicated than I want to go into - but bottom line I guess is the question - what is really cheating? Does it constitute the sex act or can just an emotional affair (which with true submission I believe you can have with the dynamics of the relationship) be just as damaging to the marriage?

xxblushesxx -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 4:33:15 PM)
Hmmm....I think 'cheating' is giving attention, affection and energy to someone other than to the one who believes you only give that to them. Cheating can also be having sex with someone outside of your relationship without your so knowing. That said; I wanted to comment on the question of who to 'blame'...It seems to me that so many people who find out their so has another they don't know about, blame the new person. Eventually, they forgive the so, but always condemn the other. Seems to me that it was the so that betrayed and broke the trust. The other person just helped to facilitate it. But now, to get back to my original question, which I may not have worded very well; Is anyone else insulted when others come here and assume that we will condone any type of behavior even when it is destructive, and goes against the usual dynamic of trust and communication, just because we're 'kinky'? ~ Christina

RedMagic1 -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 4:34:46 PM)
If it felt just as damaging to you, it probably was.

beargonewild -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 4:39:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx Hmmm....I think 'cheating' is giving attention, affection and energy to someone other than to the one who believes you only give that to them. Cheating can also be having sex with someone outside of your relationship without your so knowing. That said; I wanted to comment on the question of who to 'blame'...It seems to me that so many people who find out their so has another they don't know about, blame the new person. Eventually, they forgive the so, but always condemn the other. Seems to me that it was the so that betrayed and broke the trust. The other person just helped to facilitate it. But now, to get back to my original question, which I may not have worded very well; Is anyone else insulted when others come here and assume that we will condone any type of behavior even when it is destructive, and goes against the usual dynamic of trust and communication, just because we're 'kinky'? ~ Christina If my S/O severely broken my trust in him, then yes, I won't condone his actions. With that being said, I would have to decide on the severity of the destructive behavior and whether I honestly felt we could repair what has been damaged. I would also hope that the reverse holds true for myself and my actions with my S/O. edited to add: I would hold to this irregardless of the kink dynamic of the relationship.

Evility -> RE: Cheating, Lying Kinksters (1/10/2008 4:49:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl i know i'm going to get flamed for this - but why in hell stay married if you're openly cheating on your spouse? i know the old saying "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" yet to me, no matter if you have an open marriage and understanding spouse - cheating is still cheating. A marriage can be whatever the two parties agree to. Using your logic, every single marriage on the planet should be exactly the same and we know that not to be the case even among monogamous couples who never venture outside of their own relationship. I think whatever a couple finds prudent under their own particular circumstances is quite alright. "Openly cheating". That's a good one. [:)]

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