RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy

RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/11/2008 1:28:35 PM)
quote: Why? no SS payment on your retirement I mean. Seeks, I think the system will be bankrupt or my other income will disqualify me. As I say, I don't plan on getting it. If I do - Great! But no bills will be incurred with the expectation of paying them with a SS check. Nobody can be fully insulated from a "crash". The Government 'insurance' for each account with balances $100 or below looks safe until... Same goes for independent rating systems qualifying investment in companies. There are no absolutes; and having few ounces of gold buried is never a bad idea - although difficult to live in, heat you, cloth you, or eat. In a 'Mad Max' world all bets are off.

popeye1250 -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/11/2008 1:40:16 PM)
Well Gee! The congress, the senate and the president didn't have any problem sending $34.6 Billion Dollars overseas last year in "foreign aid." I bet all the Lobbyists on "K" street in Washington were popping the champagne corks the night that Bush signed that! Then there's the $300B for Iraq. As Ron Paul said we borrow another $10B off the Chinese to give to arab countries and the U.S. Taxpayers get stuck with the bill!

Griswold -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/11/2008 5:53:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Unless the US solves its problems with social security and healthcare, the US may lose its perfect credit rating within a decade. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Have you done a Transamerica check on the US credit rating lately? (GAWD that was funny....you really oughta do some comedy club circuits....you got potential bud).

Griswold -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/11/2008 5:56:04 PM)
No, really....I'm still laughing....that was a fucking classic....funnier than shit. (Someone hand me a towel please....milk's going everywhere!!!)

UtopianRanger -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/11/2008 11:44:13 PM)
quote: Unlike Banks, the US government who received the payments and is responsible for paying them out, can print money. When they have to do so to fulfill Social Security payment commitments it will be a disaster. It was why there was an attempt to allow people to have choice with the money. Damn.....I hate to jump on the bandwagon....but what do you think has been happening every time the Dow drops two-hundred points? They're expanding the money supply--at an inordinate level relative to shity production/growth--- to create artificial demand in the market in the hopes of thwarting a mass sell off. That's a blatant but HIDDEN tax on the people. I mean, my god....I'm hearing folks upset that they might freeze the teaser rates to stop foreclosures, yet not peep out of single person when they lower interest rates--devaluing the dollar and taxing the public---just to save the banks and Wall Street. In a political system dependent on politicians receiving large contributions--to fund their campaigns--- through entities such as banks, wall street brokerage houses, trans-national /global corporations, saving them /bailing them out when they fall ill-- due to negligence-- is just a fait accompli. - R

Termyn8or -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/11/2008 11:47:46 PM)
Sorry to jumpthrough, but I had to. The problem with social security is not people living longer, it is people stealing. and when they finally privatize it we will have a big mess. Investment brokers and bankers make money off of other people's money. Presumably they get paid to make the right investments and get the most return on the investors' money. But what do they make ? Millions of us make dollars while they make millions of dollars. And that is true of bankers as well. When the US government bailed out Silverado (owned by the President's brother) what they did is to propogate a system under which banks could make investments with every last dime in the vault. If it fell through, the feds bail you out. That pays back the depositors, but the banker is isolated from the risk in this way. People who run banks that are members of the FDIC and FSLIC are getting rich by the minute, and if their scheme falls, the gov will bail them out. Want your mind blown ? Read on. The FDIC and FSLIC are not, and never have been part of the government, they are private corporations. Basically insurance companies. Nothing more, nothing less. So is the IRS. The IRS is nothing but an accounting firm, that is all. But to the OT, welfare, in the form of payments to individuals is a very small part of the expenditure, very small. What they spend is so great that social programs are not really a big part of it in toto. Welfare for people is a very small part of the budget, but what do you expect from people who take ? The government sees their job as to take and as long as that prevails we are headed for disaster. Yes I am rdical, and I say this, JFK said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do or your country" fuck you, I pay your non-working ass taxes, it is for you to do for me, not the other way around. Who do you think you are ? I give them as little as posible because they piss it all away on their own personal agendae, and give not one fuck about our well being. What you want cites and quotes ? Read the NAFTA treaty. Get into just how our relations are going with China, how we cannot enact laws like the Europeans to force product support on items that cost over a thousand dollars. Ask your representative why you can buy a DLP HDTV in May, and by November of the same year, parts are no longer available, even though it is still under warranty. Ask them why it is open season on the American public, and why Toyotas in other countires come with a kit of tools that can rebuild the whole car, but the American version you have to buy all these special wrenches. Tell me why the are allowed to build me a million dollar house made out of a few stamped, sheetmetal joists, and styrafoam. The answer is money. Money bought the politicians and once bought, they do not sell back. JFK tried, but I will not go into that right now. "What is good for GM is good for America". It has been said. I did not say it. Welfare doesn't cost shit compared to what they REALLY waste the money on. Bailing out Chrysler with tax dollars, I NEVER gave the consent for that. They treat my money as if it is their own, no actually worse, their own money stays put as they spend ours. But things could not be better, get on the meds and it will be 68 and sunny wherever you go. Yeah right. T

UtopianRanger -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 12:04:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania If people were forced to invest in the stock market as opposed to somewhat relying on social security, it would be a huge boon for wall street. It was not long ago that Bush tried to pirate away our social security by privatizing it.... not long ago at all. HAR!! That's the new magic bubble they are looking for - That should ''re-inflate'' things as they see it. But don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. [;)] The biggest single problem with Social Security is : If you didn't have your own private pension/annuity /retirement plan, and you were free to purchase it through your broker/ insurance agent - you still wouldn't buy it. - R

rosanegra -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 2:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth snip Gold is approaching $1000/ounce. But applied to purchases it buys relatively the same hard goods valued in dollars as it did when at $300/ounce. Gold hasn't gained in value as much as the dollar has decreased. That is, and should be, concerning to Banks. ....I live in Alaska... Alaska has unmined gold.. in fact, they say 95% of the gold up here was never mined.... Hmmmm.... That's it, we're going panning as soon as the weather warms up!!!!!! Looks like we aren't going to have to worry about the Social Security problem! (looks for but cannot find emoticon with dollar signs for eyes)

sharainks -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 4:38:21 AM)
There are so many programs that drain the public of their tax dollars that I don't see any need to point out social security. My pet peeve is the amount of money farmers are given not to grow crops, to reduce the amount of dairy they produce, etc. Then with all that money they buy bright shiny new pickups which they can deduct as a business expense. I live in farm country and I see first hand the excesses of some of these farmers who are always waiting for one govt. check or another. Then there is healthcare. We already fund a huge number of healthcare programs in this country. Instead of doing something about the ridiculous cost of the services they bitch about the people who use them. My mother is currently in the hospital due to a broken hip. The amount of nurses sitting on their butts at the nurses station is amazing. Then there are the repetitive and unnecessary tests. Add to that the attempt that will be made at physical therapy which is ridiculous given the fact that she is in late stage Alzheimers and can't follow even simple instructions like "hold out your hand."

juliaoceania -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 7:56:16 AM)
quote: or my other income will disqualify me If you are working until the day you die your other income may disqualify you from receiving SS. Most people do not work until the day they die, most people retire. Your retirement income and savings are not counted against you when you collect SS. I thought perhaps you were unaware of how it works. quote: Pension payments, annuities, and the interest or dividends from your savings and investments are not earnings for Social Security purposes. Only your earned income--that is, your wages or net income from self-employment--is covered by Social Security. You may have to pay income tax on pensions, annuities, interest or dividends, but you do not pay Social Security taxes on those types of income and they are not on your Social Security record. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/annuities.htm

Mercnbeth -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 8:02:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: or my other income will disqualify me If you are working until the day you die your other income may disqualify you from receiving SS. Most people do not work until the day they die, most people retire. Your retirement income and savings are not counted against you when you collect SS. I thought perhaps you were unaware of how it works. quote: Pension payments, annuities, and the interest or dividends from your savings and investments are not earnings for Social Security purposes. Only your earned income--that is, your wages or net income from self-employment--is covered by Social Security. You may have to pay income tax on pensions, annuities, interest or dividends, but you do not pay Social Security taxes on those types of income and they are not on your Social Security record. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/retire2/annuities.htm Thanks Julia, but that's not the case.

juliaoceania -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 8:08:23 AM)
I snipped that from the SS site, I suppose they do not know how it works..hmmmm. Here is another snippet from THEIR site quote: Q. Will my retirement pension from my job reduce the amount of my Social Security benefit? A. If your pension is from work where you also paid Social Security taxes, it will not affect your Social Security benefit. However, pensions based on work that is not covered by Social Security (for example, the federal civil service and some state, local, or foreign government systems) probably will reduce the amount of your Social Security benefit. For more information, see the following fact sheets which you may review and download by clicking on the title: "Windfall Elimination Provision" and "Government Pension Offset." http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10045.html

Mercnbeth -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 8:30:45 AM)
Income from LLC's, property rentals, and my favorite interest income (Manage to save money net of tax and be penalized for interest on the money.) Two years and the "work" part of work should be over. After consultation - I now have yet another life insurance policy purely to pay for the current level of estate tax. So after death, the government can still get its pound of flesh; from the assets and money managed to be saved after tax while I lived. My desire to be an ex-patriot grows every day. Especially since my last visit to the EU and the movement to a '50's style US economy. Just goes to show what government can do when 1/3 of it's spending isn't directed to being the World's Police force. The common position of the people I met in Europe laugh, wave their hand, and say - "Let the US do it!" while restructuring and modernizing their industries. It is an amazing opportunity for investment especially in places like Bulgaria, and some of the other former 'socialist' States. The local people there are hard working avid capitalists and the government is doing all it can to help them and people bringing in investment capital. Currently considering investing in a new Bulgarian wine region being formed, and a huge alternative energy plant. Just doing what I can to help further capitalist growth in developing countries. Amazing as the US moves to social nanny-ism movement in formally socialist nations is to pure capitalism at the grass root level. Nuclear power is common, mass transportation standard, and no construction stopped for the sake of a blind cave salamander. Except of course in Greece, where if you put a shovel in the dirt and find a piece of broken pot, you can be slowed for 5 years until they determine Socrates didn't piss in it. Again - Thanks.

juliaoceania -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 8:37:25 AM)
you have to earn over 104k to be completely ineligible for SS... it is even higher to get your medical cut. Seriously, if someone is making that sort of money, owns their home, has other retirement monies and investments... I think being a US citizen must have paid off well for them, but that is just me and I could be wrong

Lordandmaster -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 8:50:21 AM)
Don't do it! quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Currently considering investing in a new Bulgarian wine region being formed

cloudboy -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 8:56:30 AM)
Managing and spending the nation's money is not a liberal / conservative issue --- provided you want to think intelligently. In terms of money management, you just need to allign spending with taxation, much like the 50 states do. Money management went out the window when Washington adopted crack-pot, supply side economic theory as real policy. Thus far, slashing taxes and increasing spending HAS NOT reduced the federal deficit. ------- Also, your use of language is off-base. Social Security and Medicare are not welfare programs, they are entitlement programs. To tell some worker who's paid into SS for 40 years that he's receiving Welfare would be a gross mischaracterization.

farglebargle -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 9:34:11 AM)
Social Security INSURANCE is exactly that. An INSURANCE POLICY. Of course, some would say that the INSURANCE COMPANY ( The US Government ) has mis-managed the assets required to cover their expected liabilities, but hey, they can just further devalue the currency and print more.

popeye1250 -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 11:04:02 AM)
Gee, that's funny, these Banks didn't say anything when (the idiot) Bush agreed to give "Debt forgiveness" to African countries. These banks were "bailed out" of bad loans that they never should have made to African countries that couldn't pay them back. And to make matters worse these same banks are loaning more money to those same African countries who won't be able to pay it back again! You don't suppose they're thinking that they'll be able to screw the Taxpayers again for these new bad loans do you?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 1:29:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania you have to earn over 104k to be completely ineligible for SS... it is even higher to get your medical cut. Seriously, if someone is making that sort of money, owns their home, has other retirement monies and investments... I think being a US citizen must have paid off well for them, but that is just me and I could be wrong No denying - just leaving prior having to pay taxes again on it or have it redistributed by the "good intent-ees" to those who didn't take advantage of the opportunities provided by the US or here criminally. But then again the issue is SS - I guess that money that's been saved for me and should be mine isn't mine after all is it? What was that you said again? Oh yeah; "People pay into Social Security.. it is NOT a charity.... " - guess that's not always correct huh?

Politesub53 -> RE: Banks: Welfare costs greatest threat to US economy (1/12/2008 3:05:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Unless the US solves its problems with social security and healthcare, the US may lose its perfect credit rating within a decade. Many banks are growing worried that the US has no plans to deal with a social security system projected to start running a deficit within the next 8 years. And to worsen the worries, some politicians want to expand welfare programs such as medicaid and medicare and provide healthcare coverage to 47 million Americans without much plan on how such an expansion would be paid for. So will the liberals in here tell me how we are going to pay for MORE social services if we are not going to be able to pay for the ones we already had? It appears unless we cut these programs, we will run into bankruptcy. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fcc631cc-bfe6-11dc-8052-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1 How about cutting back on the star wars project ? Surely its better to use taxpayers money on something useful like medicaid, rather than a project that is almost likely never to be fired in anger ? Same goes for here in the UK as well.

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