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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 12:59:26 AM   
RG7620


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I'm someone who tends to stay up for extremely long periods without sleep. I am usually fine for the first 48 hours. The first twenty-four goes by without any signifigant problem. At thirty six, I'm generally a little irritable and like to "zone out" (I catch myself staring at a random object for a long time) unless I have something more important to focus on. That usually continues up until forty eight hours, but some time after that, it always catches up with me. It hits almost instantly with the worst nausea and dizziness I can possibly imagine. I'll feel an unresistable to lay down on my side and get into a guarded position and be out before I even get my head down onto the pillow, couch, or floor--wherever I may be, though it's usually a couch. Because of how intensely ill I feel when that happens is more than enough reason for me not to put anyone else through it. It's all a subjective thing, though. What is extreme for me may be miniscule for someone else. I'd also have to stay up with them unless I had someone else to help with it, which also makes me unwilling to do it.

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 1:12:09 AM   
ownedgirlie


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My ex husband intentionally deprived me of sleep a lot.  I still have sleep issues because of it, but I'm working through them.  It was not uncommon for him to keep me up all night, or let me have only 2 hours.  Naps were not allowed.  Going to be early or waking up late was not allowed.  I remember being so exhausted once, I drove to work and it was still dark outside.  When my car clock read 7:00, I was surprised it was still dark, which perplexed me.  When I got to work, I realized it was 7:30PM not AM.  I was totally confused.  I turned and drove home, and fell asleep on the drive, waking up by swerving into another lane.  I had been up for about 48 hours then.

Master will keep me up without realizing it, because he has odd sleep patterns.  When I bring it to his attention, he tries to correct it but does not always.  I just spent a week with him in which I got about 3 hours a night, but I was able to nap, too.  3 hours is not my norm, but I have certainly learned to function on that little sleep, because of my past life in my marriage.  Going full nights without sleep feels awful, though, and can really mess up someone's sleep patterns if done too often. 

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 1:28:47 AM   
GoddessTeaze


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And this is healthy why...?

~better b safe then sorry~

GoddezzT`


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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 1:39:23 AM   
ownedgirlie


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GoddessTeaze was your question to me?  I did not say it was healthy.  My ex husband was abusive, and that was one of the ways he abused.

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 3:09:41 AM   
CuriousLord


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In BDSM?  No.

However, I'm an avid researcher.  This means pulling many, many late nights.  At times, I've gone for up to about two weeks without sleeping.  As people on this forum can likely guess with my posting hours, I work during the day and normally only sleep every second or third night.

Point being?  If there's something you want to know about sleep deprivation, you can message me away with any questions.  I can tell you all about it.

For me, extreme sleep deprivation is the only way I know to maintain my humanity. As soon as I start sleeping and my mind clears.. well, it's better like this.

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 6:34:24 AM   
adoracat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I just cannot imagine anything positive with sleep deprivation.  My first real symptom other than yawning and being tired is slurring.  I start sounding like I've had a bit too much to drink.  Next is inability to form coherent thoughts and word searching.  Following that is problems with balance.  Then hallucinations.  If it continues, "word salad" comes next - you are using words but not the ones you wanted, and you usually don't realize it.  If a headache isn't already present, it would arrive about now.

Dream state?  Well, I would say altered consciousness, yes, but dream state, no.

Cali



congratulations.   you just described me on a normal day, even if i've gotten sufficient sleep.  headaches are optional, but when they do come, they're harsh.

yes, sleep deprivation is an interesting thing to play with.  personally, i'm normally fairly pliant with Daddy to begin with, playing while sleep deprived leads to some very intense orgasms from personal experience.

kitten, who didnt sleep well last night

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 6:37:26 AM   
fluffyswitch


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it would have to be something that i would have to know exactly what i was supposed to learn from the situation, because i have a family history of depression and sleep deprivation triggers it in all of us. so my dom/mes would have to have a d*mn good reason for wanting to do that me, and honestly i'm not sure either of them really want to bring that on themselves anyway, it can be truly nasty lol.

(in reply to CalifChick)
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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 6:48:43 AM   
velvetears


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If you go long enough wihtout sleep you will start to have psychotic symptoms, it happened to my daughter and she was hospitalized against her will.  We had no idea what was going on, she bacame paranoid and delusional.  It cleared up in a few days after being in the hospital.  i personally don't think sleep deprivation is something to play around with.  Being someone myself with sleep issues i can say first hand it's no fun trying to function with no sleep.

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 6:59:22 AM   
fluffyswitch


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From: Buffalo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

If you go long enough wihtout sleep you will start to have psychotic symptoms, it happened to my daughter and she was hospitalized against her will.  We had no idea what was going on, she bacame paranoid and delusional.  It cleared up in a few days after being in the hospital.  i personally don't think sleep deprivation is something to play around with.  Being someone myself with sleep issues i can say first hand it's no fun trying to function with no sleep.

i ended pledging a greek as an undergrad, and one of the things that it required was being active until three or four in the morning. after physically collapsing from having to work, go to classes, go to pledge functions, and then attempting to get maybe two hours of sleep before starting all of this again i ended up in therapy for awhile because i honestly thought my symptoms were getting a lot worse and they needed to change my behavioral and medicinal therapies. they told me to get more sleep (among other things, the dreaded hazing word started being thrown around). one of the few things that i would truly question my dom/me on is anything that required modification to my health including my mental health, and sleep deprivation does that for me. i'm not sure i would go down without a fight.

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 7:14:23 AM   
cbtok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1
why would a dominant want to do this to his/her submissive? I'm not being judgmental at all, I'm just curious…


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
It would go nicely with an interrogation scene.


Answered well before you asked, Christine1.

Assuming a healthy submissive, who has had enough sleep recently or has been on a regular schedule, a schedule change is very useful in play. I have a friend who has used it to top people often. Now, she does not do 48-hour sleep deprivation and she is not running a Guantanamo prison here, she's shifting perceptions to get inside of someone's head.

I've always wanted to bottom to her in this way but, since I know the routine, it might not work with me.

She plans a two-day or three day "weekend" with the submissive. She tells her "victim" that they'll be released at the end of that period but that she will dictate everything that will happen during their time together. The scene is consensual, and completely pre-negotiated. Limits are respected and safewords are used, but limited to stopping what is happening in the moment instead of stopping their time together.

Then she determines how long a "day" lasts. She prepares everything so that clocks are not visible and that there is no access to natural light, save when she wants it. She adjusts "day" periods, meals, sleep periods and so on so that the submissive thinks that more time has passed than actually has. Eventually, the amount of time for the scene that the submissive has experienced passes so that the submissive thinks that the entire weekend has passed—and yet, the submissive is still held captive.

It is then that my friend starts a certain psychological game, telling the submissive that there will be no release. Not ever. Or no release until something has happened (like a limit has been transcended). As more time passes, the submissive begins to get concerned about resuming their life outside of their relationship with my Domme friend. The concern becomes worry and usually the submissive becomes frantic. This can be harnessed as an incredible motivational tool.

At the end of their time together, the submissive is let in on what really happened and I have talked with several who have reported great satisfaction as a result of this kind of play. All choice was being taken away and that all limits were released, especially that self-imposed limit of time. When this limitation was removed, there was no longer any "hope" that one could just "outlast" the scene and not fully submit.

At no time was there the kind of sleep deprivation illegally practiced by the CIA and the Bush administration in violation of the Geneva Convention. Sleep periods were shortened and so were waking periods. The definition of "day" was changed so that a "day" as experienced by the submissive was considerably less than 24-hours. Food, water and stimulation were provided on a schedule that did not harm anyone. And everyone had fun.

I do not imagine that anyone with a medical problem that is related to sleep would do well in this kind of circumstance and so it's always wise to know who you are playing with. But, by the same token, if someone had had a heart attack and was taking medicine to prevent another one, any intelligent Domme, Master or Top would take that into consideration in any play. Everyone has deprived themselves of sleep at some time, either while in College studying for examinations or while staying up all night at a party. So a bit of deprivation here is not going to cause a person undue harm, assuming no medical history that contraindicates this practice.

_____________________________

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

(in reply to christine1)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 7:16:48 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

In BDSM?  No.

However, I'm an avid researcher.  This means pulling many, many late nights.  At times, I've gone for up to about two weeks without sleeping.  As people on this forum can likely guess with my posting hours, I work during the day and normally only sleep every second or third night.

Point being?  If there's something you want to know about sleep deprivation, you can message me away with any questions.  I can tell you all about it.

For me, extreme sleep deprivation is the only way I know to maintain my humanity. As soon as I start sleeping and my mind clears.. well, it's better like this.


Respectfully.....do you have ADHD?


(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 7:23:35 AM   
lusciouslips19


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I think it is a Master's job to look out for his submissive. This doesnt seem like it would be a good thing. I suppose if it was both peoples fantasy and the sub was otherwise healthy and was in a very controlled environment and able to get sleep after the scening which required it and before returning to their regular life, that could be ok. If its agreed upon.
Its not something I would be interested in

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 1/12/2008 7:52:27 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 7:31:56 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19


quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

In BDSM?  No.

However, I'm an avid researcher.  This means pulling many, many late nights.  At times, I've gone for up to about two weeks without sleeping.  As people on this forum can likely guess with my posting hours, I work during the day and normally only sleep every second or third night.

Point being?  If there's something you want to know about sleep deprivation, you can message me away with any questions.  I can tell you all about it.

For me, extreme sleep deprivation is the only way I know to maintain my humanity. As soon as I start sleeping and my mind clears.. well, it's better like this.


Respectfully.....do you have ADHD?




i believe he mentioned once he was bi polar - i would suspect 2 weeks no sleep would be a manic phase.  i don't see how it's physically possible. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 8:08:55 AM   
christine1


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Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cbtok

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1
why would a dominant want to do this to his/her submissive? I'm not being judgmental at all, I'm just curious…


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
It would go nicely with an interrogation scene.


Answered well before you asked, Christine1.



hmmmm, it hadn't been answered for me at that point or i wouldn't have asked...i guess i was too sleep deprived to realize it, heh.

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He's the "boom" overwhelming...

He is my Master, my lover, my best friend my everything.

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 8:55:26 AM   
ghitaPVH


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About 7 years ago, in my first BDSM relationship. This was a common practice. Im still dealing with medical issues from it, and I wouldnt suggest anyone ever going quite to the lengths it was taken in my relationship. My ex not only used the typical "HEY WAKE UP" and keeping me moving and working on tasks, but also kept pumping my body full of stimulants and other narcotics to keep my body from being able to sleep. There are entire months of that relationship that I dont fully remember. The first few days were usually not too bad, Id get tired, and a bit easily emotional, but then my body would kind of find a second wind, and Id almost feel like I was on a sugar high, real jumpy and jittery and such. He'd always keep me moving, dancing for hours each night at clubs, so not only was I exhausted from sleep, every muscle in my body would ache. and the brusies, ugh. everytime Id start to fall asleep, he'd bite me. so id have the huge purple marks on my neck and sholders that hurt every time I moved. which actually helped to keep me awake because everytime Id lean against something they would hurt and Id have to push away. After a few days, the body starts to become very open to suggestion, its pretty easy to do whatever someone tells you, you just cant think clearly enough to make your own choices. During this point in time, its easy for a top to implant some new habits into a person. To tell the truth, the marines use some of these same tactics....often reffered to as brainwashing, but its not quite....more a type of conditioning. After that, if you keep going..your body starts to shut its self down. you forget how to get dressed, to walk, even to eat, unless someone is standing behind you barking very specific orders. your mind shuts down, at this point its not even suggestion, you cant do anything on your own, even when a command is issued, often you flat out cant remember how to lift yout leg off the ground to move so you can obey. its rough. and dangerous. Once I was at this stage, I have no idea what really happened, nor can I tell you what he was doing. All I remember is that all of a sudden he would be gone. and I wouldnt hear from him for weeks. Id be so emotional, and paranoid, and I kind of went though life in a fog, then after a while, when things would start to clear up, he'd show back up and drag me off again. Some of the habits he implanted into my system, ive noticed I still follow. I hate that, and I am trying now to break them. There are certain places, and certain circumstances where all of a sudden my body will involutarily do something he had tought me to do..without even thinking about it Im in a certain position going "what the hell??" and that was seven years ago. I figure one day it will wear off. Sleep is now a big issue for me too. I cant go without a full 8 hours anymore, generally I do better on at least 10. Anything less than 6 and Im weepy and paraniod and angry and often become physically ill if I dont get enough sleep for several days in a row (trust me, having children was a nightmare for me). There are times, even if Ive had my 8 hours every night, that exhaustion comes on very strong, and I can actually feel my body begin to shut down. I start to get ill. Once that begins to happen, the only thing I can do to recover is lock myself in a room and will generally sleep for about 18 hours. No help, no sleep aids, nothing...my body just turns off. As its already been metioned, its pretty hard to put someone through something like that on your own, or your basically going to end up depriving yourself too. my ex had help, there were at least 2 others that I can remember.

Anyway, Ive actually got to log off now, I didnt mean to spend this much time on here this morning, my UMs are standing around waiting to leave for the park...but it was a topic that jumped out at me and I just had to answer. If youd like to ask any other specif questions Id be happy to answer them on cmail on the other side.

ghita~

_____________________________

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"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. --Nietzsche"

(in reply to christine1)
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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 11:30:10 AM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH
To tell the truth, the marines use some of these same tactics....often reffered to as brainwashing, but its not quite....more a type of conditioning.


Ehem...
 
It's only called brainwashing when the enemy does it. When the Marines do it, it's called 'Recruit Training' (aka 'Bootcamp')<g>. Also, while you are on a regimented sleep schedule during bootcamp, the sleep-deprivation period only occurs during the first 48-60 hours of the recruit training regime, which we find sufficent to soften the most iron wills. It is, as noted, an incredibly effect form of manipulation, to the extent that in a later part of boot camp, in history classes, when you learn of the horrendous 'brain-washing techniques (including sleep deprivation) and you realise that it's what they did to you when you got off the bus, you are not at all shocked. In fact, you think it's pretty cool.
 
My Marine Corps, and it's spiritual antecendants, have 3000 years of practice in making potbellied swaybacked slackjawed callow punks into clean limbed fighting men. They have evolved an amazing system to do just that, and it's well worth the time to look into it, if power dynamics are your thing...
 
Not to detract from your horror story- I'm just sayin'...

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 11:45:33 AM   
ghitaPVH


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lol Topcat...trust me I agree with you. Its funny when you look back and go..oh, so thats why we had to wake up and run in the rain at 2am....makes sense.

but, as you said.....there are many years of practice involved in what the Marines do......and even they screw up occasionally.....

_____________________________

Don't expect anything of me and I promise I'll never disappoint you.

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. --Nietzsche"

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/12/2008 12:15:01 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: ghitaPVH
To tell the truth, the marines use some of these same tactics....often reffered to as brainwashing, but its not quite....more a type of conditioning.


Ehem...

It's only called brainwashing when the enemy does it. When the Marines do it, it's called 'Recruit Training' (aka 'Bootcamp')<g>. Also, while you are on a regimented sleep schedule during bootcamp, the sleep-deprivation period only occurs during the first 48-60 hours of the recruit training regime, which we find sufficent to soften the most iron wills. It is, as noted, an incredibly effect form of manipulation, to the extent that in a later part of boot camp, in history classes, when you learn of the horrendous 'brain-washing techniques (including sleep deprivation) and you realise that it's what they did to you when you got off the bus, you are not at all shocked. In fact, you think it's pretty cool.

My Marine Corps, and it's spiritual antecendants, have 3000 years of practice in making potbellied swaybacked slackjawed callow punks into clean limbed fighting men. They have evolved an amazing system to do just that, and it's well worth the time to look into it, if power dynamics are your thing...

Not to detract from your horror story- I'm just sayin'...


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...sounds a lot like the way to take you up to Airborne in the Army. Started in boot, then continued in A.I.T., then Jump School (yea! Ft. Benning) and then arrival in the 82nd. It does produce some rather interesting G.I.s....~grins~

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RE: Sleep deprivation - 1/13/2008 10:30:04 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1
why would a dominant want to do this to his/her submissive? I'm not being judgmental at all, I'm just curious…


I too have experienced it, and have some insight as to it's effects - it tends to break down the barriers between the conscious and subconscious mind, the limn as it is called, and thus is a sort of altered state of consciousness, similar to sensory deprivation,and it's more intense than any drug because yoru emotional responses are not attenuated as they are with most drugs, i.e., it can be intensely emotional, and as you mention, you might cry a lot, or otherwise break down emotionally to some extent, i.e., there may be unpredictable results.

As such, it's nothing to fool around with, I wouldn't do it deliberately except by request, and it would require some downtime and recovory time, since as ownedgirlie reports, it can be very disorienting, and can make it difficult to function in the outside world while under the effects if you aren't used to it.

But, as several have mentioned, it is an effective means of mind control, a way of overcoming inhibitions, instilling autosuggestion, etc., even as, on the flip side, it can give you some degree of conscious access to your subconscious mind - whether that's good or bad depends a lot on the person.

It's taking submission to another level, mental submission as opposed to physical submission, and again, whether that's good or bad depends a lot on the circumstances and people involved.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 1/13/2008 10:36:03 AM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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