RE: This really frustrates me

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laurell3 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 12:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelslave77 see laurell now ya got me thinking about muscular men in loin cloths hmmmm[:)] edited because my keyboard keeps eating my k's) Well welcome to the gutter where my mind almost always is ladies!

hisannabelle -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 12:16:13 AM)
greetings angel and laurell, AMEN. that is all. LOL. in general, though..."topping from the bottom" is something i associate with, like, "smart assed masochist" and "brat" and stuff like that. then again, in our relationship, it's his way or the highway - there's no whining or games or manipulating to get what i want. it just doesn't work like that. i either choose to be obedient or i don't - if i don't, and it's indicative of a deeper issue that i'm still dealing with, we talk through it and between his disappointment and my guilt that's more than enough punishment - and that rarely happens anymore. if i don't, and it's because i'm being willful or manipulative, game over, do not pass go, do not collect $200. them's the breaks. i don't get all this "topping from the bottom" stuff or why people worry about doing it, either. i think that if you are genuinely not trying to "top from the bottom" or be manipulative, then you're not doing it, and if you are being willful and manipulative, then for me that's not congruent with being a slave. -i- chose to submit to him in the first place...i don't get to back out of that willfully and expect everything to still go my way and be hunky dory. but at the same time, if i do something that doesn't come across as "uber-slave"ly, but i'm still doing it without any manipulative or willful intent, there's no way it can be "topping from the bottom." angel, thanks for posting this because i get sick of seeing these threads, too. i subscribe to the philosophy of if you are worrying about doing it, then you are probably not likely to be one of the people actually doing it. respectfully, annabelle.

MistressVnus -> Then we agree on 1 thing (1/15/2008 12:17:29 AM)
open communication and topping from the bottom are 2 different things. When I read your original post, it seems to enmesh them into one. I just don't see it as the same thing. But, that's me.

angelslave77 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 12:18:48 AM)
annabelle as always that is so beautiful written

angelslave77 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 12:28:59 AM)
Mistress Venus you are absolutely correct they are different and some people seem to confuse the two and that what I was grrring about . when someone asks a question that should clearly be seen as communiction and yet they are asking the forum if it is TFTB (damed if I am typing it out anymore),. I know they are different and I know there are times it happens but rather than TFTB to me that is just being a SAM or a brat so perhaps I should have added in the original post i wasnt referring to those persons who identify/act as sams and brats but meh it is all labels and semantics and whatever and now I am all confused and so I shall go back to thread derailment

Justme696 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 12:32:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelslave77 Since we seem to be being good little soldiers and not hijacking threads I thought I would put this here, and I have no doubt it has been done before, but too bad I say, I am going to have a whinge anyway.[;)] The term "topping from the bottom" fuck me seven ways from Sunday that fucking term drives me nuts. And to avoid confusion what I am speakingof here is those "weal and twue," relationships where the parties are,or believe they are "in love" or "collared" or "owned" or whatever term you want to use here. If a person has a real and genuine need within a relationship then discussing it with the Dominant is never topping from the bottom and yet so often the questions phrased are "how do I tell my Dom blah blah without topping from the bottom". Answer is simple you just fucking tell him, and if he thinks you are topping from the bottom he is probably an arrogant ass not worth your time. Communication is vital in any relationship and reguardless of what we identify as Dom/sub ect we are first and foremost human beings, and as such we form relationships and no matter how you define that relationship, if you want it to be healthy you need to communicate. What the Dom does with the info is of course entirely at thier discresion and whether you can live with the desicion becomes another post entirely. angel (who appears to have gotten out of the wrong side of bed this morning) I have to agree with what you say. I had a slave once (later sub) that had a problem communicating in the beginning. She said I was the Master and she wasn't allowed to talk because I was the Dom and she didn't want to "Top"me. While i had the opinion communication is good and not topping, but it would improve our relation. But I can imagine there are Dom(mes) that will see it as criticism

MistressVnus -> I read it again.... (1/15/2008 12:59:49 AM)
and I see where you are coming from. I can see that you are frustrated with those Dominants, or subs, who confuse open communication with topping from the bottom. I can understand that frustration completely. As for subs/slaves with this confusion, I am tolerant and do have to admire their committment to please while explaining the difference and making sure they DO understand. It would be the Dominant I would have a real issue with for the inability to distinquigh the two. Now...where are those men in loin clothes. [8D]

laurell3 -> RE: I read it again.... (1/15/2008 1:05:53 AM)
Meh men in loin cloth are overrated. They're like sour candy, they look great, then you actually try to talk to them and realize....not so great [;)]

MistressVnus -> Or..... (1/15/2008 1:12:53 AM)
you rip off their loin cloth and realize it isn't great at all!! LOL

Justme696 -> RE: I read it again.... (1/15/2008 1:14:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Meh men in loin cloth are overrated. They're like sour candy, they look great, then you actually try to talk to them and realize....not so great [;)] Conan the babarian (Arnold Scharzenegger) is living close to you i bet :P well in the same country

Evility -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 4:33:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelslave77 What the Dom does with the info is of course entirely at their discretion and whether you can live with the decision becomes another post entirely. So you communicate with the dominant, he considers your input (or not) and then decides to do it his way. Dissatisfied with that decision, you decide to bail. Who was really in control all along? If you do not like the phrase "topping from the bottom" let's put our heads together and think of a new euphemism for it. In the end it's all gonna come out in the wash the same way.

angelslave77 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 4:39:07 AM)
I have to say I very much enjoyed the loin cloths in 300 Evility I guess to that all I can say is thats a whole other thread one about Doms understanding subs ect ect . But enough thinking for one day getting back to my fantasy of my Spartan men

sweetnsensual -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 4:43:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelslave77 If a person has a real and genuine need within a relationship then discussing it with the Dominant is never topping from the bottom...just fucking tell him, and if he thinks you are topping from the bottom he is probably an arrogant ass not worth your time. Communication is vital in any relationship and reguardless of what we identify as Dom/sub ect we are first and foremost human beings, and as such we form relationships and no matter how you define that relationship, if you want it to be healthy you need to communicate... angel (who appears to have gotten out of the wrong side of bed this morning) Amen. Thank you for making this thread and for saying that.

DesFIP -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 4:46:35 AM)
Barbara Walters has a slightly odd speech pattern, frequently using a w sound where an initial r ought to be. We use the word "twue" or "weal" to indicate derision at those who believe there is only one true or real way to be. Talking to your partner about what you need isn't the dreadful tftb. In the middle of play giving orders to the top is. For example "No don't flog right there, move it over a little to the right, now down, further, further, okay right there" is. If it sounds like you're directing a back scratching aimed at getting one specific itch scratched, that's tftb. And you know, it still doesn't have to be a terrible thing. If the top is secure enough to laugh and tell the sub calmly "Keep that up and it's your least favorite gag" or more simply "nope, doing this my way and not yours, shut up and take it" there would be no problem. Some people get chatty at various points during scening, some laugh when the pain hits, others zone out. Accept it for what it is, an authentic response, and keep on going in line with what was negotiated beforehand.

hardbodysub -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 8:21:50 AM)
(Edited to make it clear that this is in response to the OP) Goodness gwacious, you obviously haven't read the handbook! Didn't you know that a sub isn't allowed to have any desires except to serve? I mean, really, you must be a real loser, a do-me sub to even consider such a thing!

Justme696 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 9:01:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardbodysub (Edited to make it clear that this is in response to the OP) Goodness gwacious, you obviously haven't read the handbook! Didn't you know that a sub isn't allowed to have any desires except to serve? I mean, really, you must be a real loser, a do-me sub to even consider such a thing! I think that would be a slave, not?

Kitte9 -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 9:08:21 AM)
quote: The term "topping from the bottom" fuck me seven ways from Sunday that fucking term drives me nuts. If a person has a real and genuine need within a relationship then discussing it with the Dominant is never topping from the bottom and yet so often the questions phrased are "how do I tell my Dom blah blah without topping from the bottom". Answer is simple you just fucking tell him, and if he thinks you are topping from the bottom he is probably an arrogant ass not worth your time. angel (who appears to have gotten out of the wrong side of bed this morning) BRAVA!!!!!

LaTigresse -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 9:18:17 AM)
I may be voicing an unpopular thought process but since when has that stopped me... When I see the said phrase, I think of two different things. One, internet dominant with no real relationship experience. ALL sucessful relationships, regardless of type, need good communication. Two, insecure chest-thumping, self proclaimed dominant type. Afraid of honest communication. (Please note, I almost forgot two and had to write Two,............ahhhhh, I forgot what #2 was.........) Yours truly, DingywannabeDomme sheesh.....

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 9:22:58 AM)
A sub/slave sharing with their Dom partner an activitity they enjoy is not TOPPING from the BOTTOM. Actually, it's just plain good old fashioned communication. Topping from the Bottom involves the bottom actually giving orders/commands and/or requests during a play session. Topping from the Bottom involves the bottom taking control. Since when did somebody expressing a desire in wanting to do something become a control issue. All the other person is letting their needs, wants, desires and wished be made known. It's up to the DOM partner to take control of these things. Personally, I value hearing such things with somebody. It gives me insight into what they do and don't enjoy. It's import to know your sub/slave and what's on thier mind. With Regards to SAMs, sure it might appear to be somebody topping from the bottom. I don't always do what a SAM expects me to do. I think any DOM worth their salt knows the whole mental dance of engery that occurs with a SAM. Just because I'm a DOM does not mean, I can't deal with a SAM or anybody else. If anything it keeps my DOM levels in check and keeps me on my toes. Adds a little extra spice to things at times. It can be fun having somebody attempt to push my buttons, even a little fun to perhaps play a long to a degree as well. Call it for the sake of it leading up to a good mind fuck. OH crap, wait a minute here... I actually was part of a DOM couple. Look no submission involved. Geeesh.. she most certainly did not get me to submit, nor did I get her to do the same. Amazing! Interaction with keeping the DOM levels in check. Makes me wonder just how DOM somebody is when they are faced with somebody making a request or being honest with them. I suppose if the DOM can't help but say YES all the time even when they really don't want to do something, it would be topping from the bottom. Anyways, I can rant about the misconceptions of topping from the bottom, and overly sensitive Dom/mes. But think eveybody who's posted on this thread has expressed enough for others to read.

Dnomyar -> RE: This really frustrates me (1/15/2008 9:43:46 AM)
OK ladies keep Tarzan just send me Jane. OP forget the top/bottom crap and just talk with your Dom.

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