Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs

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VermillionRain -> Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 9:44:28 AM)
I am in a normal, June & Bob Cleaver marriage. Over the last three years I have explored/discovered/accepted my submissive nature. I have done my best to explain this side of my personality, my needs, my desires to my SO - am met with shock, disgust, horror. He does not want to understand, does not want to hear about it anymore. Of course, as in all relationshps, there are other issues, but they are workable and worked on. Are there many out there who are married, like me, and go outside the relationship to meet their needs for - err - I guess you call it kink? At the time, I am confining my play to on-line. But the need is strong. sigh

RCdc -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 9:48:57 AM)
You will probably get blasted for posting this hey. Yes there are people in your position. Does you partner know you are exploring online or are you hiding it? You will find people that people will be unable to trust you if you are lying, even if confined to online. the.dark.

VermillionRain -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 9:52:12 AM)
Oh, I'm aware I will get blasted. smile No, he is not aware. I wish it could be some other way.

KaylinSilverfurr -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 10:03:32 AM)
Short answer: Yes, there are others like you out there. Long Answer: I'm not entirely sure if you're looking for advice or not on how to deal with this situation beyond online kink interactions to have your needs met. One of the things I would definately encourage is to find out why he's having the reactions he has. He may have a totally different vision of BDSM and submission than what you have. He might be concerned about hurting you, he may not find the scene all that particularly attractive. There are lots of reasons, but communication that is open and honest is definately one of the keys to the scene and having a fulfilling experience. Granted you've said he's not open to understanding and does not want to hear about it anymore, so give him that space. If and when things seemed to have calmed down, try and talk to him again. Make sure he understands that your desire to do this should be taken as a sign of your trust and love for him, not just as a completely sexual thing. If, after that, he's still not interested, then there needs to be some dialogue within yourself about what needs to happen. Are your needs more important that his feelings? I do hope the best for you, and hope that things come out in a positive fashion. I understand how difficult it is to go from one to the other with someone who's resistant to the notion. ~Kaylin

HalloweenWhite -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 10:13:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VermillionRain I am in a normal, June & Bob Cleaver marriage. Over the last three years I have explored/discovered/accepted my submissive nature. I have done my best to explain this side of my personality, my needs, my desires to my SO - am met with shock, disgust, horror. He does not want to understand, does not want to hear about it anymore. Of course, as in all relationshps, there are other issues, but they are workable and worked on. Are there many out there who are married, like me, and go outside the relationship to meet their needs for - err - I guess you call it kink? At the time, I am confining my play to on-line. But the need is strong. sigh Ive got 2 friends in this situation, both very married and craving to submit, one would -never- dare to go outside the marriage to fulfil her needs because she feels it would wreck the marriage and she doesn't want that. The other -has- gone outside the marriage, but the husband found out, she was lucky, he's trying to understand and meet her needs, but as I said, she was lucky-most would probably walk. I feel for both My freinds, the one who is married but wouldn't go else where is soooo frustrated but she's in a very tricky situation. Ultimately, you do what you want but there are ridks involved with what you're thinking about doing and you have to be sure you want to take that risk. If it were Me, I'd keep plugging away at My partner and try to educate them sensibly-read non fiction books on the subject perhaps to disspell some of the stigma etc. Good luck.

thetammyjo -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 10:13:52 AM)
The key to your situation, VermillionRain, is the knowledge and consent of your partner. Anything short of that will be cheating and lying and I cant' see how that is a good dynamic to have in any relationship, vanilla or BDSM. If you can't be honest with your partner and get his consent, I think it will make it much more difficult for you to find a good partner for BDSM. To be more blunt: If you aren't honest with him, why should I trust you'll be honest with me? Now, you have told him so that is one level of honesty. But that is not the same as getting his consent to go outside the marriage of other needs. That will require a lot of communication from both of you. I'm going to recommend two books for you. "When Someone You Love is Kinky" for him to read. "The Ethical Slut" for you both to read together if he seems open after reading the above book. You can find them both on Amazon.com -- if you order them together you should get free shipping. If he isn't open to the marriage being opened up so you can pursue your interests you have three choices. Leave -- may not be easy or feasible; Stay and Deny -- I think that will cause you emotional damage and over time the marriage damage as well; Cheat -- again this will make it harder for you to find a good partner plus you'll always have the fear of him finding out.

VermillionRain -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 10:22:48 AM)
I have a relative in the lifestyle. I have the books. I feel I really have done the work, done my best to explain things, who I am, how I became this way - to the best of my ability. The last 10 years has been all about personal work - growing up, becoming a functioning human being - finding out who I am. I am afraid it's not who my partner needs. When we met I was a mess and I have worked my ass off becoming who I thought I should be, the person he needs. This part of my self is unacceptable to him, he sees it as a regression into my past. I am so goddamn frustrated. I've worked so hard to get to where I am now, and a large part of it is due to his support. I do love him, as hard as it may be to believe. I feel like such an asshole - leaned on him until I got "better" and now dump him? (That being said - there are periods now where i am the one who is the rock, seemingly even more so all the time). I would not get consent to go outside. This I know. Thank you all for your replies.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 10:42:52 AM)
then you have three choices like Tammy said leave him, cheat on him or stay frusterated and unhappy. Or hope he changes his mind by demonstrating that what you want isn't regression into past bad behaviors. which i s doubtful of happening. And I'll admit none of them are very good choices but they're the ones you have.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 11:17:39 AM)
Yeah, I don't see any other options. quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo If he isn't open to the marriage being opened up so you can pursue your interests you have three choices. Leave -- may not be easy or feasible; Stay and Deny -- I think that will cause you emotional damage and over time the marriage damage as well; Cheat -- again this will make it harder for you to find a good partner plus you'll always have the fear of him finding out.

Aylee -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 11:29:45 AM)
To the OP ~ I would like to suggest the book Surrendered Wife. http://www.amazon.com/Surrendered-Wife-Practical-Finding-Intimacy/dp/0743204441/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200425277&sr=1-1 It is Vanilla, but perhaps you can implement some of her stratagies as a stepping stone. This may also make it feel less stigmatizing to your other half.

thetammyjo -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:09:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VermillionRain I have a relative in the lifestyle. I have the books. I feel I really have done the work, done my best to explain things, who I am, how I became this way - to the best of my ability. The last 10 years has been all about personal work - growing up, becoming a functioning human being - finding out who I am. I am afraid it's not who my partner needs. When we met I was a mess and I have worked my ass off becoming who I thought I should be, the person he needs. This part of my self is unacceptable to him, he sees it as a regression into my past. I am so goddamn frustrated. I've worked so hard to get to where I am now, and a large part of it is due to his support. I do love him, as hard as it may be to believe. I feel like such an asshole - leaned on him until I got "better" and now dump him? (That being said - there are periods now where i am the one who is the rock, seemingly even more so all the time). I would not get consent to go outside. This I know. Thank you all for your replies. How do you know he won't get consent? We create these scenarios in our minds about how a partner will react but until we try, it may take a third objective party to help, you don't know how your partner will react to the idea of opening up the relationship. I was a very different person when I married Tom. I had an entire childhood of sexual and psychological abuse to recover from. At the time, Tom was safe because his sex drive was low and he was gentle. But perhaps this is the different -- I knew something wasn't quite the real me yet so I made sure he was also poly so that was always an option for us and in fact part of our vows were to be poly and not limit each other in that way. Ultimately you have to do what is best for you. At the end of the day, at the end of life, you are all you have. Try to do it honestly and openly and if you can't with him, is he the best partner for you? Are you the best partner for him?

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:16:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VermillionRain Oh, I'm aware I will get blasted. Just curious, why did you (and the.dark) think you would get blasted? Seems like an appropriate question, stated in an appropriate way... I wish proudsub was here...IIRC, she was in much the same situation and eventually wound up in a very happy D/s relationship with her husband. Taggard

RCdc -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:27:32 PM)
Honestly Taggard? I stated it almost as a fact, in the assumption some people would try and prove me wrong. It worked.[;)] It really does depend on how the first few people answer in all fairness though. Most of the time (in recent months) people have been very condecending of those participating whilst their partners are unaware. You get the usual - oh its not consensual etc... Vermillion has been very fortunate at the present - but it's still early yet... I believe proud is still 'surfing' but still recovering from her op. the.dark.

SensibleSam -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:38:20 PM)
I think this is a fairly common problem. I met such a couple at a munch a couple years ago. She loved him and he loved her but she wanted to be submissive and he just couldn't do it. I run across ads on this and similar sites from women with just this problem. I think the male Dominant and the feamle submissive tastes are deep rooted. Everything I've read and everyone I spoken to seem to have first noticed the "hunger" when they were adolescents. That is to say when sexual interest first normally arrives and blooms. I think about 5% of all people have this taste. I also think that it can be nurtured and cultivated if it already exists latently but that for 95% or so of all people it just can't be acquired. A girl doesn't become submissive because she read "The Story of O". She read the book because she was submissive. I may be wrong about all this of course, but if I'm right a marriage between a vanilla and a kinkster is a problem without an easy solution. Just about every submissive woman I've ever met has spoken of being able to tell "real" Doms from those who are just pretending as a strategem for getting sex. I take this as evidence that true Domliness can't be taught and a Domish pose or affectation is not very fulfilling to the woman.

AFlyInYourWeb -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:42:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VermillionRain I have worked my ass off becoming who I thought I should be, the person he needs. I think this sentence is key. You've spent a decade working your ass off to be the person he needs. It would be nice if he were willing to return the favor, and work his ass off being the person you need. But according to your account, that isn't a possibility. One day, you are going to have to make a choice between being who you are versus who he wants you to be. There will be grief in either direction you choose, and I can only hope you choose the path which will give you emotional satisfaction in exchange for the grief.

TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:46:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Most of the time (in recent months) people have been very condecending of those participating whilst their partners are unaware. You get the usual - oh its not consensual* etc...* I guess I read the op more as a question of if she went outside her marriage, not that she had already done it. Online-flirting doesn't qualify as cheating in my book. I don't know where I really fall on the cheating issue... I try not to judge other people's actions. I have cheated in the past, and know that I would never do it again, but that kind of lesson you almost have to learn on your own. Thanks for the clarification, and for the whereabouts of proud! Taggard

KaylinSilverfurr -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:52:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty I guess I read the op more as a question of if she went outside her marriage, not that she had already done it. Online-flirting doesn't qualify as cheating in my book. Taggard Taggard, There are those that would agree with that statement, myself being one of them, but there will definately be others that will disagree. I think it's a can of worms statement truthfully, but one that definately needs to be brought up in this case. ~Kaylin

vampiresscammy -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:56:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VermillionRain I have a relative in the lifestyle. I have the books. I feel I really have done the work, done my best to explain things, who I am, how I became this way - to the best of my ability. The last 10 years has been all about personal work - growing up, becoming a functioning human being - finding out who I am. I am afraid it's not who my partner needs. When we met I was a mess and I have worked my ass off becoming who I thought I should be, the person he needs. This part of my self is unacceptable to him, he sees it as a regression into my past. I am so goddamn frustrated. I've worked so hard to get to where I am now, and a large part of it is due to his support. I do love him, as hard as it may be to believe. I feel like such an asshole - leaned on him until I got "better" and now dump him? (That being said - there are periods now where i am the one who is the rock, seemingly even more so all the time). I would not get consent to go outside. This I know. Thank you all for your replies. people change,a nd with that change come choices, some good some bad, if you really love this man and want to make this work, really sit him down and have it out, lay everything out there and say bold faced you NEED this, its not about just wanting, its needing, if he is open to at least trying even if it only means baby steps, then give him a chance ...................................... or decide now if loosing him is worth this desire, and theres your answer, as amazing as it would be to please everyone in your life, the truth is, you can only please you, do what will make you happy, but be honest to your partner and yourself, if you can make it work with him, wonderful, if not, you may have to move on, least thats what I got out of what you said, IMNSHO, you need to be honest if nothign else with him, then go from there, he may surprise you, give him a chance, if you are nto okay with his answer decide if its time to move on or not

ownedgirlie -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 12:58:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AFlyInYourWeb quote: ORIGINAL: VermillionRain I have worked my ass off becoming who I thought I should be, the person he needs. I think this sentence is key. You've spent a decade working your ass off to be the person he needs. It would be nice if he were willing to return the favor, and work his ass off being the person you need. But according to your account, that isn't a possibility. One day, you are going to have to make a choice between being who you are versus who he wants you to be. There will be grief in either direction you choose, and I can only hope you choose the path which will give you emotional satisfaction in exchange for the grief. I loved what you said here, but instead I would say they should both be allowing each other to be who they as individuals need to be. The part you said about making a grief-filled choice, I very much agree with. That point came to me at 17 years in the marriage. I kept holding out because I was always this short of being what would have made him happy, which, I thought, would have made me happy. But every time I thought I made it, there would be something else wrong with me. I also told my husband of my D/s and BDSM desires. He said I was mentally ill for having such thoughts, and there was no way he could agree with that. By the time he told me that my masturbating was considered cheating on him, I went outside the marriage, given I had already "cheated." The ironic thing is that he was really cheating me, by not allowing me to be myself. It's a tough position to be in, especially when you truly believe you belong there, and especially when you believe that YOU are the problem, and just need to change a little more. In my case, there was no such thing as changing "enough", and after awhile, I not only lost, but completely forgot who I used to be. Only the OP can make the decisions she needs to make, and only she can determine when it feels right to make them. I also like to recommend this site, whenever possible, for people who may be in similar situations to my past: http://www.youarenotcrazy.com/ Best wishes to the OP.

secretagentgirl -> RE: Vanilla Marriage, D/s Needs (1/15/2008 2:44:42 PM)
Ooh, I am in the similar situation. And... I have just been found out for going outside the relationship. It ain't pretty to be confronted. One of the questions my sig/other had was why I didn't say that I was interested in something outside the relationship (D/s not even being the key issue.) Of course it had never occured to me to ask first - seriously, what would the answer be? But now I wish I'd at least expressed the desire or asked about him allowing me the opportunity. At least I could now be saying "well you knew I had this need!" instead of it all being a horrible surprise. During the course of our discussion, I suggested the idea of us each having an occasional fling. To me, 50 years is a heck of a long time with one person. He wasn't interested. Sigh. So now I'm in your shoes again.

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