Disobedience from Your sub

Disobedience from Your sub (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

Keun -> Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 12:29:31 PM)
Greetings... I don't post much... so most of Y/you don't know Me..but hello. My name is Keun - I'm a (lesbian) switch living in Louisiana with My submissive. My question is this: Our relationship is budding, and still in the infant stages of D/s..while we have a fantastic loving and nurturing "vanilla" side to our relationship, she wants more D/s incorporated (so do I), and thus I've attempted to incorporate more "lifestyle D/s" traits into our world... One example is this: she consumes a lot of caffeine and to benefit her own health, I'm trying to wean her off of it slowly (not to cut it off completely, but to curb the addiction, which is obvious). She is to ask Me permission every time she wants to have a cup of coffee or another caffeinated beverage.. and she's constantly forgetting to ask Me and makes up excuses as to why she didnt (hectic days, etc, etc, etc). It seems as though if she wants truly to be My sub then she would want to submit to Me, and thus obey such a simple task?... I am upset at her, and not sure how to handle this daunting task of getting her to obey, which has Me feeling like a failure as her Dominant (for such a simple thing, too)... When I am submissive to another, I obey because it pleases my Dominant, because I trust Her, and also because I want to... when I ask My sub.. she gives Me the same reasons... and yet seemingly (as above)... she doesn't show it through her actions. Any thoughts?

NakedGirlScout -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 12:44:53 PM)
When you set up the coffee rule, did she wholeheartedly agree to it? Was she involved in the discussion about wanting to cut back her caffeine? How long have you been involved in controling her? Too many questions left in my mind to really give a helpful answer.

MistressNoName -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 12:49:29 PM)
I wrote on another thread about a boy who loved alcohol. It was his god, and I should've specified it was a capital "G" God. Caffiene addiction is no less serious an addiction. You may be her Mistress, but caffeine is her God. She has to make the decision which is more important, serving you and pleasing you by taking the need to curb this addiction and improving her health, seriously or serving her caffeine God. Her excuses are just that, excuses and I would let her know in no uncertain terms they have no place in a serious discussion. The excuses need to either sit there silently and listen or they need to leave the room altogether, but they are not to utter a word. It is not an easy thing you are asking her to do and you need to understand this as well. If it were easy, she would just do it and that would be that. And her having a difficult time releasing this habit is not about you. Her body craves the caffeine and her body wants to be satisfied. If you take this lightly, then that would be your failure. You should read up on caffeine addiction and look for ways that work for weaning people off of the stuff. And you need to take into consideration the extent of the addiction, what she gets out of continuing it and what she's capable of accomplishing at any given time. Then, re-adjust your goals for her. In general, requiring her to ask permission to have caffeine is a generally good idea - if she's not constantly craving the stuff.. The issue is, she's probably wanting it all day long, and at any moment when her mind is not totally occupied with other thoughts. If you don't mind being called every half-hour or so, it might actually work. If you do, you'll have to make some adjustments...like telling her how much caffeine she can have in a day, helping her schedule out when she's going to have it and having keep a journal to track her progress, so she actually has something tangible to see. You might also have her track in her journal how she feels, both good and bad as the caffeine decreases. And remember not to punish her for anything she writes in her journal. Hope this helps. Best to you both, MNN

Honsoku -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 12:49:39 PM)
Which is more important to you at this juncture? Her obedience or the goal? Since you mentioned that the relationship is still new, maybe having to ask every time is requiring too big of a step when dealing with an addiction. She probably isn't used to the idea of thinking before grabbing something with caffeine. Might do both of you some good to start with something easier, say; No more than X number of sodas/cups of coffee in a day. Have her keep track of every soda and coffee she drinks for about a week, take an average, and set the limit to that for the first week or two. That way, all she has to do is be able to count and pace herself. Then every week or two, you can cut the maximum number allowed by one until you reach a point that you are happy with. Keep in mind that it is an addiction you two are fighting, as such it tends to short circuit her decision making processes. Her struggling with an addiction does not reflect poorly on her, nor her desires to obey. She just needs to be more addicted to you first [;)]

darchChylde -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 12:57:03 PM)
Well, there's two sides of this issue in my opinion... First, there's the Ds side of things. Outright disobedience is something that should not be tolerated. You apparently love her and don't wish to dismiss her over this tolerance, nor do you want to punish her so much that she'd feel that the relationship is more trouble than it's worth. Only you and she knows where that breaking point might be, but i'd recommend a cummulative punishment and reward system. For every act of disobedience, you should increase the level and intensity of the punishment. But you might want to start with something so simple, but emotionally effective as not allowing her contact with you for a particular period of time. Second, there's the very nature of addiction. This is where it gets particularly slippery. Addictions influence us to do things that we would normally be unwilling to do and create excuses and justifications for our actions. An addiction also creates circular behaviour. The more you feed the addiction, the worse you feel and thus you turn to the addiction to feel better; then you feel bad again and must turn once more to the addiction to feel better. This creates a nearly unbearable cycle of self-destructive behaviour that is very hard to break free of. Basically; these issues are point and counterpoint to one another, and each breaks down the other. If you truly wish her to wean off of caffiene, it may be best for her to actually quit the substance altogether. It may also be helpful, if understandably difficult, to step back from the Ds side of the relationship until there is some appreciable results and simply be her friend. Someone to love her and be her support without having the the position of an authority figure which may very well be counterproductive to the conquering of her addictions. The above is merely my personal opinion and based upon my own experience; you must do that which you see as best for you, your submissive and your relationship.

Keun -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 1:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout When you set up the coffee rule, did she wholeheartedly agree to it? Was she involved in the discussion about wanting to cut back her caffeine? How long have you been involved in controling her? Too many questions left in my mind to really give a helpful answer. Yes she wholeheartedly agreed to it. Yes she was involved in the discussion, very actively... We've been involved in an increasingly lifestyle D/s relationship for five months. Thank you for your response.

Keun -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 1:32:50 PM)
MNN, You've given me some fantastic points to ponder - thank you. I know it's not an easy thing to ask of her...and although yes, I'm worried about the addiction, I'm more concerned at this point (because I realize curbing the addiction will take time) about her lack of obedience at something so simple... This isn't the only thing she does this with.. for instance... one of her 'duties' is to serve me on her knees every morning with a glass of orange juice to wake me up... and she's constantly forgetting to do that also... again she comes with the excuses (I dont have time, I had to walk the dogs, etc)... when I retort with "Wake up earlier if you dont have time or have things to do"). Also of interest at this point is that I should relay that she is hypoglycemic AND has ADD... as such, she needs a bit of sugar almost constantly for the hypoglycemia and thus has reacted to that by drinking coke or coffee/tea with milk & sugar... (a lot - which drives the ADD nutty).. whereas she would be better off eating an apple or another glucose-rich fruit. I now have her keeping trail mix in her purse when she's at work and eating healthy lunches, which has helped.. but obviously not enough. I think it's a fantastic idea to readjust my goals for her - the journal is a great idea, too. she's definitely a challenge! Thank you, Thank you !!! Keun quote: ORIGINAL: MistressNoName I wrote on another thread about a boy who loved alcohol. It was his god, and I should've specified it was a capital "G" God. Caffiene addiction is no less serious an addiction. You may be her Mistress, but caffeine is her God. She has to make the decision which is more important, serving you and pleasing you by taking the need to curb this addiction and improving her health, seriously or serving her caffeine God. Her excuses are just that, excuses and I would let her know in no uncertain terms they have no place in a serious discussion. The excuses need to either sit there silently and listen or they need to leave the room altogether, but they are not to utter a word. It is not an easy thing you are asking her to do and you need to understand this as well. If it were easy, she would just do it and that would be that. And her having a difficult time releasing this habit is not about you. Her body craves the caffeine and her body wants to be satisfied. If you take this lightly, then that would be your failure. You should read up on caffeine addiction and look for ways that work for weaning people off of the stuff. And you need to take into consideration the extent of the addiction, what she gets out of continuing it and what she's capable of accomplishing at any given time. Then, re-adjust your goals for her. In general, requiring her to ask permission to have caffeine is a generally good idea - if she's not constantly craving the stuff.. The issue is, she's probably wanting it all day long, and at any moment when her mind is not totally occupied with other thoughts. If you don't mind being called every half-hour or so, it might actually work. If you do, you'll have to make some adjustments...like telling her how much caffeine she can have in a day, helping her schedule out when she's going to have it and having keep a journal to track her progress, so she actually has something tangible to see. You might also have her track in her journal how she feels, both good and bad as the caffeine decreases. And remember not to punish her for anything she writes in her journal. Hope this helps. Best to you both, MNN

Keun -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 1:35:09 PM)
Such wonderful points again... (thank you all for such wonderful advice!!) So far it seems I definitely need to re-evaluate how I'm attacking this addiction with her... at this point, her obedience is more important... because once I have it, I can better curb the addiction (among other things)... So now the question is how to get her more addicted to me... Putting my thinking cap on... quote: ORIGINAL: Honsoku Which is more important to you at this juncture? Her obedience or the goal? Since you mentioned that the relationship is still new, maybe having to ask every time is requiring too big of a step when dealing with an addiction. She probably isn't used to the idea of thinking before grabbing something with caffeine. Might do both of you some good to start with something easier, say; No more than X number of sodas/cups of coffee in a day. Have her keep track of every soda and coffee she drinks for about a week, take an average, and set the limit to that for the first week or two. That way, all she has to do is be able to count and pace herself. Then every week or two, you can cut the maximum number allowed by one until you reach a point that you are happy with. Keep in mind that it is an addiction you two are fighting, as such it tends to short circuit her decision making processes. Her struggling with an addiction does not reflect poorly on her, nor her desires to obey. She just needs to be more addicted to you first [;)]

Keun -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 1:39:44 PM)
dark, great post - thank you. I agree that disobedience can not be tolerated. Today I immediately told her that as a result of her actions, until she proves to me that she wants to be My submissive, that part of us will be on hold... but now, in rethinking my actions, perhaps I was wrong to put it on hold, whereas I should hone it and work with her until I train her to obey... the punishment and reward system is a great idea. I've been having difficulty with punishments for her because I can never use anything painful as she's a pain slut... so I'm constantly trying to be creative.. Also - agreed about the addictive influence. It is such an issue for her... and I believe actually that it effects her obedience directly in some ways.. so perhaps dealing with the addiction outside of the d/s relationship would be good... Keun quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde Well, there's two sides of this issue in my opinion... First, there's the Ds side of things. Outright disobedience is something that should not be tolerated. You apparently love her and don't wish to dismiss her over this tolerance, nor do you want to punish her so much that she'd feel that the relationship is more trouble than it's worth. Only you and she knows where that breaking point might be, but i'd recommend a cummulative punishment and reward system. For every act of disobedience, you should increase the level and intensity of the punishment. But you might want to start with something so simple, but emotionally effective as not allowing her contact with you for a particular period of time. Second, there's the very nature of addiction. This is where it gets particularly slippery. Addictions influence us to do things that we would normally be unwilling to do and create excuses and justifications for our actions. An addiction also creates circular behaviour. The more you feed the addiction, the worse you feel and thus you turn to the addiction to feel better; then you feel bad again and must turn once more to the addiction to feel better. This creates a nearly unbearable cycle of self-destructive behaviour that is very hard to break free of. Basically; these issues are point and counterpoint to one another, and each breaks down the other. If you truly wish her to wean off of caffiene, it may be best for her to actually quit the substance altogether. It may also be helpful, if understandably difficult, to step back from the Ds side of the relationship until there is some appreciable results and simply be her friend. Someone to love her and be her support without having the the position of an authority figure which may very well be counterproductive to the conquering of her addictions. The above is merely my personal opinion and based upon my own experience; you must do that which you see as best for you, your submissive and your relationship.

thetammyjo -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 1:57:55 PM)
I think the problem here is more than her not wanting to obey. Caffine like nicotine and alcohol and chocolate too are all drugs. You can emotionally and physically become addicted to them. You may want to help her but ask yourself if this is really something you want to set up rules about (is it reasonable and will it succeed) because if the rule is there, you have to enforce it. Punishment is never fun for either person -- I'm talking the real deal here not pretend "punishment" or CP or spanking or other things that often are called "punishment" but which are for fun. I'd personally not make a rule like that but instead work on a reward system. For every bit of caffine she cuts back on she gets a "good girl" or a hug or something like that. Re-enforce her decision to try and be more healthy. Use the rules for other matters she should be able to exercise more control over like calling you "milady" or bowing when she enters a room or orgasming without permission. But make it something you have a reasonable chance of controlling and which is very important to you so you never forget to enforce it.

Gwynsbitchboi -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 2:23:30 PM)
When I do somethin gmy Domme doesn't want me to do, I usually end up being told to wet myself on the spot, whether we are out in public or in private...Needless to say, I've found obedience is easier than doing laundry every day

CdnExplorer -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 2:28:08 PM)
I've been horribly addicted to the stuff a few times, to the point where I was getting a lot of problems with dehydration, headaches etc. Quitting cold turkey can be hard, but there are alternatives. This last time I "quit" I switched to green tea. It has about a quarter of the caffeine in it, so it takes the edge off of the withdrawal without affecting you too much. It's a good way to gradually step down, especially if like me you tend to have something to drink quite often. This might work for her also. A couple months ago I was drinking more than a pot every day, and now I have one mug of green tea in the morning and a couple of coffees at the open mic on the weekend. At this point I could probably stop drinking the stuff completely and feel no ill effects.

DesFIP -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 2:34:23 PM)
The way you're trying to wean her off caffeine isn't working. Try a different method. You don't mention what she drinks. If coffee, then have her mix one can caffeinated with one can decaf and brew the amount she uses in a day. Have her get a thermos and bring it with her. After those cans are done, two cans decaf with one caff. If Iced Tea, same thing. She's to make it herself from decaf and caff tea and mix it one to one. Coke? How many cans/bottles in a day? Bring one can of each. No buying anything caffeinated out. Just decaf. Makes thinking about stuff easier. I'll have a decaf latte with soy milk please. Same order every time. Remembering while dealing with withdrawal is going to be difficult. You need to do more education on the withdrawal/addiction process than you have. Don't make her go cold turkey though. She'll have headaches lasting for a week straight, won't be able to focus on work, on driving etc.

darchChylde -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 2:59:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP If coffee, then have her mix one can caffeinated with one can decaf and brew the amount she uses in a day. BLASPHEMER!!!

MistressFaye1 -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 4:56:06 PM)
Hello to everyone that posted. I just wanted to pop in and say I'm impressed the answers here. No on came on and outright talked about what kind of punishment to give out for not obeying but the answers were on point with pointing out this is an addiction. As I read the initial post, "addiction" was the first thing I thought. After reading the posts I saw I didn't need to say anything. Great insight and advice!

Boondoggle -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 5:06:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darchChylde quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP If coffee, then have her mix one can caffeinated with one can decaf and brew the amount she uses in a day. BLASPHEMER!!! ADDICT! I can't stand coffee, personally, though I used to be heavily addicted to caffeine from soda. Cutting down slowly worked relatively painlessly for me (nothing bad enough to remember a few years later, at least).

Ecossaise -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/15/2008 9:10:04 PM)
Keun, you and I have discussed this privately, because I know quite a lot about your relationship. But I thought I would add one or two points; they have probably been covered by other people above, but nonetheless you might appreciate them. There is a lot more to your relationship with her than D/s - a heck of a lot more. So there is always the possibilty that a solution lies within the relationship as a whole. Yes your D/s side can help and inform the solution-seeking, but it may not be the be-all and end-all. I see this as much more than a simple obedience problem. First and foremost, it has to do with her pysical and psychological dependance on caffeine. This is a serious condition, and that is why your holistic support of her is important. The dependance itself is exacerbating another condition which is a problem in its own right; it is a practical problem, affecting her behaviour generally, not just her obedience in the D/s field, and should be viewed with compassion and understanding. You should consider seeking professional, medical help. Practically she should be weaned slowly off caffeine. Never mind people crying "Sacrilege!" at the idea of mixing caffeinated and decaf coffee - something has to be done. "Cold Turkey" would hurt like hell, but gradual lessening of the dependance is more realistic. Your influence is better felt at times when you are there; while she is at work, she will continue with coffee for quite some time. When you are together, forget, for a while, who is supposed to be "serving" whom. You are partners, and you support each other. You are her Mistress, but as such are a nurturer and provider. Start with one replacement drink per day, and make it pure water, rather than a subsitute coffee - actively get it, whether at the cafe or at home, and give it to her. Try that for a few weeks, and then increase from one per day to two. It will be a long haul, but it will work eventually. As for general obedience, keep trying, keep it simple, and - I know this sounds like a soft touch - encourage her obedience in things she actually enjoys doing for you. That will be the position from which you can "push the envelope". Do not be afraid to scrap a whole routine and start from scratch. The wonderful thing is that you communicate very well with each other. I know she longs to be collared; the relationship as a whole is not near that stage. But have confidence - it will get there. With love, M (Ecossaise) xxx

LadyHugs -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/16/2008 9:41:53 PM)
Dear Keun, Ladies and Gentlemen; There have been many good replys thus far. I agree with addiction to anything, regardless if drugs, alcohol, soda, food, cigarettes and the like, this grew and it wasn't a sudden 'habit.' Habits are sometimes caught but, most times I find people not really aware of doing something as it is second nature. Perhaps putting masking tape on a bottle and assign a time to it. Other bottles can be given times and or times with dates, as to really have a schedule. Logging her consumption first and establish a pattern to work from. Stretching the total out and then removing one bottle of soda out of the total and in turn, put the cost of one soda into a jar like a bank. Finances will be visible and a marker of success. If she wants to buy something, it has to come from the money jar (if at all possible). Perhaps taking smaller glasses, such as juice glasses and fill with ice cubes and then pour the soda in and limited to a bottle; it will be a visible trick that she is getting more than she really is. You can start with mid-size glass or a large if you wish but, fill it with ice and work down to a shot glass. Perhaps having chewing gum as an alternative for soda, it can delay the need/desire for a soda a bit. It is cruel to have a soda and your submissive deprived. Drinking together helps, especially when its just water. Adding some limes, lemons, a bit of mint as to take the bland taste out of water will help. Make Kool-Aid without sugar, take some and freeze it in the ice cube tray, then add into a glass with water or Kool-Aid may be fun also. Everybody needs praise, appreciation and to know they are important. Addicts need as much support as possible and also kindness. Just some thoughts. Respectfully submitted for consideration, Lady Hugs

Kitte9 -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/17/2008 8:09:43 AM)
I have a suggestion. This has nothing to do with D/s, but it has helped my father curb his consumption of caffiene. My mother started buy ing decaf for him, but he got headaches. So she began mixing the regular and decaf together, and he didn't notice the difference from full strength. She has since found half caffinated coffee and he drinks that without a problem. I'm reasonably sure they have it all over, but if not, just try mixing the two and I bet she won't notice. In this way you can immediately benfit her health, and work on the D/s side as you need to. Respectfully, Kitte

pixelslave -> RE: Disobedience from Your sub (1/17/2008 11:10:20 AM)
Keun, In addition to the many excellent replies you've received regarding the caffeine addiction, I'd like to add a few thoughts of my own on a couple things you've mentioned which haven't been addressed. You've said your sub has *ADD, and such to my way of thinking has special needs* and may require a different kind of approach to learning new tasks such as bringing your orange juice to you in the morning; something someone with ADD *would easily forget* to do *while getting lost* in other things. I hope you'll *consider learning more* about this disease, the medications which can help, along with the many techniques that are useful in helping people cope with having and dealing with this often devastating disease. [8\|] This *may not at all* be a case of *intentional disobedience, but instead one of limitations* that you sub naturally has. Your job as her dominant would seem to me to be to help her learn to find new ways to cope with having them, thus helping improve the quality of both your lives and the D/s relationship that you'd like to have with her. For someone with ADD, *saying "I forgot" may ge a genuine & totally legitimate answer, and not just an excuse for someone with ADD. I genuinely hope, you'll take the time to learn more about this illness* and what you can do to find new ways to help her *restructure her day* while learning to cope with it. I believe there are many organizations which meet in most communities to help individuals and families learn to deal with the problems associated with the disease (Google ADD, ADD Resources, and ADD Support). The many things which *you think are "simple"* to you, may actually be *very difficult* for someone with this disease. Adjusting your expectations, and finding tasks she can more easily be successful at, will help her self esteem and make you both feel as though your D/s relationship is growing successfully. [:D] Finally, I'm very pleased to see you *never* mentioned punishment in your OP for her *perceived* failures to sucessfully perform the tasks which you've assigned to her. To my way of thinking, when there's outright disobedience, it's time to talk and reassess. not to punish one's sub. Often there's a failure to understand or something else going on that can only be resolved by open & honest communication. Punishment only seems to help in a loving relationship to drive a wedge between the two of you and doesn't build the bond that helps each other grow as Domme and sub who want to have a successful relationship. [&:] - pixel

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

4.589844E-02