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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 12:32:09 PM

realtuffdom

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I am a firm believer that love can in fact be unconditional. With conditions, of course.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 2:58:55 PM

slavegirljoy

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Fast Reply:

The following is the personal view of this one woman and is true for me but, may not be true for anyone else. Each person decides for themself what love means to them.

i believe:

Being able to love unconditionally or to be loved unconditionally doesn't mean that you must love everyone unconditionally or that all others will love you unconditionally.

Some people are unable to love unconditionally or to be loved by another unconditionally. But, that doesn't mean that unconditional love doesn't exist.

Some people don't believe that unconditional love is possible.
But, that doesn't mean that unconditional love doesn't exist.

Just because some relationships that, 'once upon a time', were considered to be unconditional love ended, doesn't mean that unconditional love can't exist.

Just because not every single 'love relationship' is unconditional, doesn't mean that unconditional love can't exist.

Loving someone, unconditionally, doesn't mean that you have to approve of everything they do or say or that you have to agree with them 100% of the time.

Loving someone, unconditionally, doesn't mean that there won't be pain or hurt feelings or sadness or disappointment.

Loving someone, unconditionally, does mean that the love lives on, in spite of pain and hurt feelings and sadness and disappointment.

Loving someone, unconditionally, means that you don't hold their faults or mistakes or past bad deeds against them and make them 'pay for it'.

Loving someone, unconditionally, means that you don't use your love as a means to 'get them to act right or else'.

Loving someone, unconditionally, is not an "if you _______, then, i will love you" or, "if you don't _______, then, i won't love you" situation.

Unconditional love is not manipulative.

Unconditional love is imperfect.

Unconditional love is forgiving.

God loves me unconditionally.

God knows that i'm imperfect and loves me anyway, just as i am.
God forgives me of my mistakes and my faults.
God doesn't withhold His love from me or use it as a means to 'get me to behave right'.
God protects me and comforts me and provides for me, always, even when He should be angry and disgusted with me.
God is patient with me and gives me unlimited opportunities to learn from my mistakes and to have the best that life has to offer, no matter how many times i stumble and fall.
God never abandons me.
To me, this is unconditional love.

Edited to add: i think the hardest person to love unconditionally is myself.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 1/17/2008 3:54:49 PM >

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 3:05:03 PM

ownedgirlie

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That was beautiful, joy, and gave me more to think about. Thank you.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 3:14:10 PM

Leira

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Quick reply - love is conditioned, not either unconditional or conditional... once you love, you love, although you can often choose to walk away from that. Someone capable of unconditional love has merely conditioned themselves to love that way.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:12:51 PM

slavegirljoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leira

Quick reply - love is conditioned, not either unconditional or conditional... once you love, you love, although you can often choose to walk away from that. Someone capable of unconditional love has merely conditioned themselves to love that way.

i believe that babies come into this world with the ability to love unconditionally and then, through socialization, fear of abandonment, hurt feelings, fear of rejection, etc., we begin to lose that innocence of babyhood and the ability to love unconditionally and our thoughts become conditioned to believing that love is always conditional.

joy
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< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 1/17/2008 4:14:28 PM >

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:24:43 PM

CryAllUWant

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This is my first post here, ever. Just happens to be a subject near and dear to my heart.   For me, love is a verb not a noun.   Love is a choice we make constantly - if it is a real love.    All that stuff in the bible about "love is kind, love is gentle, etc." (1 Corinthians 13) is true. So is what is written by Kahlil Gibran and many other philosophers and poets.    IF you make the choice to love!

Is it conditional? Of course it is because life is fluid and things will change over time and we must ask "given this new set of circumstances do I still choose to love?".   When your partner has had a really aweful day and just cant seem to even like themselves, you make the choice to love them.   Perhaps you give them space or you make them dinner or you draw them a bath - how that love comes out is not the issue.   The fact that you choose in that moment to love them is what is important.   And life is filled with moments like that.

Just my two cents.   Thanks for letting me chime in.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:29:23 PM

camille65

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If you get something back from the love you give, then that is a condition. That is a bit closer to what I was trying to say way way back in the beginning of the thread. Welcome to the forums CryAllUWant btw!

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:29:29 PM

RCdc

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oooo... lovely! Great first post - made me think of the lyrics of one of my favourite songs.

quote:

Love, Love is a verb
Love is a doing word
Fearless on my breathe.

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(NewtonFaulknerVersion)

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 1/17/2008 4:30:22 PM >

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:35:36 PM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CryAllUWant

you make the choice to love them.

Cry,
Welcome to the boards.. :D
i clipped this particular section out of Your thread because i'm not sure i can agree to it...i'm not convinced that certain people in my life who (fortunately or unfortuantely) i've loved unconditionally that it was a choice....At least not consciously.......Damn....See, now i'm confused....

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:37:05 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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well as someone who was born different i can say that i have never been loved by anyone other than my parents. because as soon as a potential gf or at the time when i was dating men...a potential bf... finds out about how i was born (intersexed). the relationship immediately ends and i never hear from the person ever again.

so if you are different the chances of finding acceptance is near impossible. as well i have found that society wants one of 3 things. SEX DRUGS or $$$$$$$. especially proven fact in this lifestyle where they want either SEX or $$$$$. just read the profiles and you'll see what i mean.

thus my final note is that there is NOT someone for everyone. that is a myth.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:43:28 PM

Kalista07

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i don't know if You are right about that or if You are wrong....Either way, i guess i don't believe it's my place to say....What i do know is uncondintional love, in my life, has had nothing to do with money, sex, or drugs...It had to do with me just being me....It was people truly and sincerely liking me and loving me until i could do so for myself...i don't know if i'm even making any sense or not here.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 4:52:40 PM

RCdc

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I totally get what you are saying Kali, so you are making sense to me. And after reading the posts on this thread I believe I understand and all I can say is that I love without condition and it was not a choice, but it is a 'doing word' I now choose to embrace.

the.dark.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 8:31:26 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

yes...i believe in unconditional love under the latin definition of Agape...i love each and every one of you and there isn't a thing you can do about it...i love everyone i come across, i love my family and friends....some of them i have to love from a distance because they are inherently unhealthy for me...

under the definition of eros...the love that most people speak of when they talk about love...it is absolutely conditional...if you don't think it is, give me 20 minutes and i can prove it is not...i don't want to though...when we grow to love someone through eros - romantic love - it is earned...it is not inherent (as agape is)...if it is earned, it can be lost...it may leave an impression on our souls, but if the trust is lost (typically required for eros to be present) it can never be what it once was...and trust is much harder to regain...at least in my experience...both first and second hand...

yes, yes i am quoting myself...because i felt it got lost back on page 5 and i liked what i said....

i love everyone, and there isn't a thing you can do to stop me...

i am extremely selective about whom i choose to be in a relationship with and who i give my heart to, and it takes quite a while for me to "fall in love"....we need more words in the english langauge for love...if eskimos can have 13 words for snow, we should have at least 20 for love, seeing as how important love is to us...

chelle

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 8:41:15 PM

brainiacsub

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the.dark., very interesting thread. Some of the responses have been, well....curious. If you don't mind the hijack, I'd like to ask your responders a couple of questions...

What do you think love is?
a)... an emotion like sadness, joy, excitement;
b)...a feeling like trust, respect, expectation; or
c)...a behavior like self-sacrifice, acceptance, forgiveness, etc?
None of those? Something else maybe?

Is there a difference between maternal and romantic love? I'm not asking if there is a difference in how you express it, but how you define it. For some of you, the distinction seemed to make a difference in the conditionality of it.

Do you think love is innate or learned?

I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who believe that love is unconditional.

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 9:30:22 PM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

i however, i also believe that you can love a person, but be so hurt by their actions that there is no way you can be in their presence.

And I hate that so much.....
I have the problem I really never hate some one I was with, no matter what happened. Pisses me off

Give it time, it will eventually work. If you keep letting them hurt you, you will eventually hate yourself for letting it happen, and then transfer that hate onto the person. It is better to hate someone else for hurting you than hate yourself for allowing it to happen or continue.

As for my opinion on love...I believe love is unconditional when it comes to my family, that is irrevocable.

But love is definitely conditional when it comes to romantic love and quite ephemeral. I think that once you have truly, truly loved someone and been so hurt by that person, it can damage your ability to view love in the same manner because you become altered by your experience, depending on what happened of course.

I do know people who have incredibly strong loves and they work at keeping their loves alive. Others never find the intensity of what they believe love to represent, so continue to look. And then we have the ones who have loved and lost; you can continue to feel love for a positive break up but not for a destructively, hurtful one.

I don't know of a way for someone to restore a heart that has been damaged, not heartbroken in the hearts and flowers kind of way, but in a real damaged kind of way.

So, not sure about unconditional love at this point, nope.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 1/17/2008 9:40:01 PM >

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 9:36:38 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Nope. I've loved someone and there were things they could do, or allow to be done that would damage the love I felt for them.

Even things they could do that would * and did* end the relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

if it is love.......isn't it by necessity unconditional?......depneding of course on your definition of love

Jeff

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 9:47:24 PM

YourhandMyAss

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I love him but if he raped me, or killed my pet, or my parents, or burnt my house down or beat me in a non consentual way ,I'd damn strait leave him. Those are the types of conditions that are so severe as to end wishing to be with him. I don't see how having those limits means I don't love him. It just means my love isn't endless forever and ever end of story and there are things he can do to hurt me enough to withdraw my concent to be with him and to take my love with me as I leave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

ok....and I could respond......how can it be love if conditions are placed upon it? is there no room for growth, change and acceptance? Is my view so narrow that I can not see the big picture?

Jeff

this allows that what originaly attracted you to that person are not so much conditions as facts

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 9:55:17 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

I love him but if he raped me, or killed my pet, or my parents, or burnt my house down or beat me in a non consentual way ,I'd damn strait leave him.

I have a family member that is mentally ill that did things that are seemingly unforgivable because he literally had a break with reality... so the person you love has a complete and total break with reality and believes someone or something you love is a demon that will harm you, so he kills it or them, would you stop loving this person because they are sick and their illness caused them to do something wrong of that magnitude?

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 9:55:25 PM

YourhandMyAss

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It's all hypothetical since I don't have children, but my opnion of them would change and I would maybe not want to be around them if it turned out my child was into torturing raping and eating victems. I certaintly will not make the claim that they can do *ANYTHING* in the world and I wouldn't turn away from them. But it'd have to be pretty damned serious and abbhorrent to me to turn away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: RumpusParable

ok.....but what if your child did that?Jeff

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RE: Can unconditional love exist? - 1/17/2008 10:26:04 PM

YourhandMyAss

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It's hard to say. but probably in all cases 99 percent, yes. If they were mentally ill and now were being helped,I would not want to take the risk of them breaking from reality again and harming me or my new animals or remaining people I love again. So yes I would love them less* or if I didn't love them less but couldn't stand to be around them* I would stay away from them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I love him but if he raped me, or killed my pet, or my parents, or burnt my house down or beat me in a non consentual way ,I'd damn strait leave him.

I have a family member that is mentally ill that did things that are seemingly unforgivable because he literally had a break with reality... so the person you love has a complete and total break with reality and believes someone or something you love is a demon that will harm you, so he kills it or them, would you stop loving this person because they are sick and their illness caused them to do something wrong of that magnitude?