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24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/28/2005 7:31:20 PM   
EvilTwin1


Posts: 11
Joined: 8/26/2005
Status: offline 		I have come across the topic of "Loving Domestic Discipline" a few times. A source of information is http://lovingdd.blogspot.com/.
From what I can gather, this topic shares some of the dynamics of 24/7 Master/slave but there are differences. As I understand LDD, the collar is not used nor are the titles, "Master" and "slave". The male is the undisputed head of the household. The wife receives corporal discipline for breaking rules only and not simply because it pleases the husband.

Since I am looking at LDD from a theoretical perspective, I have questtions. First, is there anyone here that actually practises LDD? How would you describe it? How do you see it differing from Master/slave? What do you see are the advantages?
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/28/2005 7:35:56 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		From my perspective and experience with it, domestic discipline is pretty much heterosexual marriage with a punishment kink and idealized nurturer/protector male with submissive/passive female archetypes. I often get the impression that they want to separate themselves from just being a kinky married couple and try to specialize it.

(in reply to EvilTwin1)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 7:36:10 AM   
MemphisDsCouple


Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

From my perspective and experience with it, domestic discipline is pretty much heterosexual marriage with a punishment kink and idealized nurturer/protector male with submissive/passive female archetypes. I often get the impression that they want to separate themselves from just being a kinky married couple and try to specialize it.


But if they called themselves bdsm'ers we'd accept them saying, "This is tpe for us. This is the way we define our m/s relationship. This is the way we define our d/s relationship/dynamic." Therefore, I conclude there is not one iota of difference between d/s, s&m and ldd.

In fact, in spite of a lot of people who want to mystify d/s and s&m, the plain fact is it's older than history. It comes naturally to virtually every person in the world - to whatever degree. And it's been in relationships for, as far as I can tell, forever.

_____________________________

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 7:43:51 AM   
LaughingDan


Posts: 18
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		AFAIK, a 24/7 Master/slave relationship does not need to involve an S/M component, it can be just "corporal discipline for breaking rules only and not simply because it pleases the husband".

Or am I missing the point here?

_____________________________

I write random stuff too.

(in reply to EvilTwin1)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 8:06:03 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		DD seems to have two components to me:

1) A power exchange along a Het Male/het female spit &
2) Corporal punishment as part of that PE.

As Dan points out, an M/s relationship doesn't have to have an SM component - it can be along power lines with no SM dynamic.

Assuming an SM component, the biggest difference betwen M/s as many of us conceive it and DD is in motif and theme. As the name suggests, DD has a "domestic" theme: marriage, home, interior domesticity vs exterior society, etc. For most of us, M/s has an ownership theme: conquering, taking, stylized or overt powerplay.

The motifs are different as well. A "collar motif" would seem very much at home in an M/s relationship, but wouldn't be a motif associated with DD for example. OTK spanking and hairbrush discipline while not restricted to DD are certainly motifs that are common to it.

My M/s relationship is a blend of the two - I can see elements of a violent SM M/s relationship blended with a violent DD style (that still has the nurturing component), but with an emphasis on the M/s motifs like collars, posture, humiliation rituals, etc.

(in reply to LaughingDan)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 10:07:15 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I consider DD to be a form of sexism against both males and females.

To me, it incorperates the "male is dominant, must be dominant and cannot be other than dominant" and "female is weak, submissive and needing of dirrection and MUST be such because she is female." This ideology creates huge problems for me.

I would say in practice it's similar to BDSM, and that I've seen many espouse the same theory of dominance and submission, but that because it is important to DDers to NOT be lumped into BDSM, it isn't BDSM.

I figure the self-name is important.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Faramir)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 10:25:26 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I consider DD to be a form of sexism against both males and females.

To me, it incorperates the "male is dominant, must be dominant and cannot be other than dominant" and "female is weak, submissive and needing of dirrection and MUST be such because she is female." This ideology creates huge problems for me.



Actually domestic discipline has a very large contingent in the Femdom/male sub dynamic. I have seen that as far more common than male dominant roles in DD.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to perverseangelic)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 10:31:58 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

I consider DD to be a form of sexism against both males and females.

To me, it incorperates the "male is dominant, must be dominant and cannot be other than dominant" and "female is weak, submissive and needing of dirrection and MUST be such because she is female." This ideology creates huge problems for me.



Funny thing, in my experience, DD is more often practiced in the femdom/malesub relationships.




_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to perverseangelic)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 10:48:27 AM   
femdom4u2besub


Posts: 35
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I just have to agree with the last two posters that DD has in my experience been practiced much more fequently in femdom/malesub relationships. This was originally how I managed to find myself coming out and getting involved in the BDSM community. But like so many things in this world there arent really clear cut boundaries nor should there be, in my opinion, because then people have a tendency to practice inclusion and exclusion based on definition. It seems a waste as well as discriminatory.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 11:46:09 AM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

quote:

I consider DD to be a form of sexism against both males and females.

To me, it incorperates the "male is dominant, must be dominant and cannot be other than dominant" and "female is weak, submissive and needing of dirrection and MUST be such because she is female." This ideology creates huge problems for me.



Actually domestic discipline has a very large contingent in the Femdom/male sub dynamic. I have seen that as far more common than male dominant roles in DD.


Huh. That is so odd.

I have -never- seen it used outside a Christian, male top dynamic. In fact, I thought the phrase Domestic Discipline refered to a Chrisitan household run under strict biblical tenets--man is the head of household.

Heck, live and learn!


_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
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RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 12:46:03 PM   
haematopoiesis


Posts: 134
Joined: 7/8/2005
From: the land of oaks
Status: offline 		"I'm not a midget. I'm just incredibly short. You see, I haven't joined the circus."


----

I suspect that the advantages are in perception. Self-perception, and the perception of others in other walks of life. There is something of a stigma in much of society when it comes to being labeled "kinky," and there are a lot of pre-conceived notions that go with it. Of that group, there are many who would be perfectly fine with hearing that the couple is not kinky, but that he does keep his wife in line and that she is a good little lady and treats her man right... and even if they weren't fine with it, they might be more tolerant of that than of the big bad "kinky" word.

Not to say that this is the reasoning behind all of it, but I would wager that it is for a good many people.

----

Disclaimer: I do not practice LDD, nor do I know anyone who does so, so I must assure you that I am, as they say, "talking out of my ass."

_____________________________

Om Tare Tuttare Ture Mama Ayuh Punya Jñana Pustim Kuru Svaha

(in reply to EvilTwin1)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 1:40:25 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Just like Goreans there are different groups that practice what i would refert to as some sort of D/s relationship that want to seperate themself from bdsm for whatever reason. If they are happy whit that sure whatever, as long as what they do dont harm anyone i dont see why not.

(in reply to haematopoiesis)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 1:44:42 PM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I think this is one of those labels with imprecise boundaries- as most in WIITWD seem to be. I've seen it in the FemDomme realm, I've seen it in the Trad Christian Marriage realm, I've seen it as a cheap excuse for wife beating, and I've seen the practice, without the label, on I Love Lucy. The core structure of it is very much the traditional marriage, and it works for lots of people who don't think of themselves as kinky at all. I don't have any problem with it, but I can't stomach some of the religious or sexist rhetoric that 'justify' it for some people.

Cane

(in reply to EvilTwin1)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 2:06:32 PM   
MemphisDsCouple


Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: haematopoiesis

I suspect that the advantages are in perception. Self-perception, and the perception of others in other walks of life. There is something of a stigma in much of society when it comes to being labeled "kinky," and there are a lot of pre-conceived notions that go with it. Of that group, there are many who would be perfectly fine with hearing that the couple is not kinky, but that he does keep his wife in line and that she is a good little lady and treats her man right... and even if they weren't fine with it, they might be more tolerant of that than of the big bad "kinky" word.




And therein we find the short, succinct, easily understandable answer to many questions, objections and confusions I see floating around this and other discussion forums.


For example: Question, objection, confusion:

No one can live d/s 24/7 because you have to go to work or you have to take care of the kids or you visit your relatives or you go to PTA or..... ad infinitum.

Answer: Read above.



Question, objection, confusion:

No one can maintain the d/s dynamic 24/7 because sometimes you just get tired of formality.

Answer: Read above.



Question, objection, confusion:

How do you deal with the vanilla world when you're trying to live d/s?

Answer: Read above.



Question, objection, confusion:

What do you tell your parents?

Answer: Read above.



Question, objection, confusion:

What do you tell the kids?

Answer: Read above.



And so on.

I happen to have more than one decade's experience with this.




Postscript:

You are welcome to print or save this post for your own use. Please do not copy it to any public or semi-public forum (including email groups/lists) without my express permission. Thanks. All rights reserved. (I write this postscript because after-the-fact someone wrote to me to inform me that they had copied a prior post I wrote to another list. So, I thought I'd better clarify what my preference/policy is regarding use of what I write.)

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)

(in reply to haematopoiesis)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 3:47:46 PM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MemphisDsCouple


Postscript:

You are welcome to print or save this post for your own use. Please do not copy it to any public or semi-public forum (including email groups/lists) without my express permission. Thanks. All rights reserved. (I write this postscript because after-the-fact someone wrote to me to inform me that they had copied a prior post I wrote to another list. So, I thought I'd better clarify what my preference/policy is regarding use of what I write.)

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)



Wow. What would I use it for? BTW, you own copyright in your own words automatically in this here modern world, but I'm afraid that doesn't give you the kind of control you'd apparently like to have. If you don't want people to 'use' your words in other places, best keep them to yourself. You can keep others from profiting from your work, or claiming it as their own, but I believe your posts here constitute participation in a public conversation, which you really can't prevent being quoted. Besides which, I can't imagine why you would want to. But that's just me.

Cane

(in reply to MemphisDsCouple)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/29/2005 5:20:55 PM   
EvilTwin1


Posts: 11
Joined: 8/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren



"Funny thing, in my experience, DD is more often practiced in the femdom/malesub relationships."




I just got this visual from the old "Blondie" cartoon strips. It seems that at least once a month, Mrs. Dithers (did she ever have a first name?) was going after Julius Dithers with a rolling pin and whupping his butt good. Perhaps this femdom/malesub DD idea is a lot older that I had first thought (LOL)

< Message edited by EvilTwin1 -- 8/29/2005 5:54:26 PM >

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/30/2005 2:32:44 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		There is a Norweegian cartoon to Findus and Fia, Fia a huge angry woman had a tendency to run after her tiny husband whit cooking implements and trying to hit him.

A copyright on your posts, interesting.

(in reply to EvilTwin1)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: 24/7 Master/slave versus Domestic Discipline - 8/30/2005 2:52:56 AM   
sf-Sub


Posts: 61
Status: offline 		A site that deals with more with F/m side of things

http://www.disciplinarywivesclub.com/abegin.htm

(in reply to EvilTwin1)
Profile   Post #: 18
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