Unrealistic Expectation

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LadyKim -> Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 8:33:55 AM)
I am wondering how the other Dommes out there have handled unrealistic expectations in their sub/slaves? I have a boy who has been saying for the last two years he wants high protocol and to be used really hard ... treated as a true slave to the point of nonconsentuality. When we go to lifestyle events, he expect to have type of slave 'check' at the door, then have the entire event be about punishing the slaves with as minimal service and talking as possible. This sub has been to close to 100 different events with me over the years, and he knows that most BDSM Play Parties are social events where play usually breaks out. He views the socializing as a waste and wants something much more severe. How have other dominants dealt with this over the years? Does anyone know of somewhere on the Eastern US coast where something like this would even happen? I honestly think that he needs to experience it once to realize his romantisized notion of this is far from the reality and something he would NOT want to experience again. Thanks, MzKim

MistressVnus -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 8:50:24 AM)
I'm not sure what your are asking so let me try to clarify whant I think you mean. Are you saying that he really isn't enjoying the more relaxed dynamic of Dom/sub with agreed upon activities and set limits and boudaries? And, that going to a "play party" where people break out in play in a very "formatted" and clearly consentual manner is boring to him? Sounds like he is seeking more of an "enlsavement" scenario. Perhaps more of a OWK type of experience where slaves are highly "objectified" and used to serve the Owners needs without consideration of thier likes and dislikes? Do some research on "enslavement" regarding the BDSM lifestyle and "Old Guard" protocols. Also, do some research on Female Supremacy. I have a feeling this is going to be more where he is coming from if I am interpreting your OP correctly. Some have an innate "need" to be enslaved. Consider it something I call "consentual, non-consentual". No limits except the ones you want. Total servitude and obedience. The locking away of him when not needed for service or to indulge you in whatever whim you have at any given time. He wats to be "used" for anything you see fit without regard for whether he feels like doing it or not. Let me know if I have interpreted your question correctly.

LadyKim -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 9:06:24 AM)
Your interpretation is somewhat correct; however, he does not really want a true enslavement relationship. While he does like the idea of objectification, he does not want the dominants just chit chatting around him while he is being objectified. He wants to be the center of attention at all times with people noticing and commenting on how he is being treated. He also wants severe punishment at all turns when out at lifestyle events again with him being the center of attention for everyone to see what he is being put through and enduring. Basically, he wants it all to be about him and full on at all times without breaks. He sees it as enslavement, but the reality is he wants it his way with everyone else doing what he wants them to do even if they take it further than he initially agreed for it to go....just so long as it is all about using and punishing him. He said there is some club in DC that is like this; however, I have never heard of it. I can see where specific 'events' are more high protocol and have more severe evenings, but he claims it is like that all the time. He did not have a dominant at the time he went to the club, so it was from an outside looking in point of view. Personally, I don't see where it is realistic. If someone knows otherwise, I'd love to hear about it. I would also like to know what other Dominants have done in similar situations to bring their sub to reality. Thanks, MzKim

pixelslave -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 9:38:48 AM)
I'm obviously not a Domme, but you might try leaving him in the car during the social part of the events a few times to help teach him some humility. You could also have him sit at your feet and tell him he's not allowed to speak unless spoken to. In other words, "No strutting his stuff!" Similarly, find a chair in a corner and tell him to "stay". Do what ever it takes to remove the limelight and attention from him. It sounds like that's what he needs. [8\|] For some subs, the worst punishment in the world is to be ignored. I suspect that's the case with him. In which case, unless you really want to play in public with him, why not just leave him at home? [&:] - pixel

Elorin -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 9:49:49 AM)
It sounds to me like you have a basic understanding - he wants it to be all about him at all times, and that is unrealistic. Tell him that. When I have met subs that had such expectations, I explained to them that a D/s relationship, just like any other, is about give and take. And that for me, socializing is necessary. Therefore, he gives before he gets to "take" attention and beatings. Any night where it is all about beating the subs isn't going to be all about him anyway. What is the likelihood that he would be the ONLY one getting punishments, attention, commentary, and humiliation? And how likely is it that he would be the most interesting of the "victims" to the onlookers? He would have to share the limelight with all the other objectified, humiliated, beaten, enslaved bottoms, and I doubt he would like it at all. If you want him to have a taste of this, why not ask around and organize a small party that will allow the bottoms to get their fill of a female supremacist "enslaving" kind of evening, and if he likes it you can put him in charge of organizing future parties!!

cloudboy -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 10:09:21 AM)
This may not be helpful, but sometimes fantasies are best left alone. Hence, in one's mind something can be really great --- and also two people can kind of participate in and imagine that fantasy (say, going to OWK, or some "slave island") --- Also, BDSM relationships are childlike in many respects (having fun, seeking adventure, exploration, scenarios, gear), and like children too, the real world prevents us from doing what we might want ---- so instead of being frustrated, upset, or stunted --- keep certain extreme things burning in your imaginations. This is one sure fire way of avoiding real world let-down.

LadyHathor -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 12:02:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyKim I am wondering how the other Dommes out there have handled unrealistic expectations in their sub/slaves? I have a boy who has been saying for the last two years he wants high protocol and to be used really hard ... treated as a true slave to the point of nonconsentuality. When we go to lifestyle events, he expect to have type of slave 'check' at the door, then have the entire event be about punishing the slaves with as minimal service and talking as possible. This sub has been to close to 100 different events with me over the years, and he knows that most BDSM Play Parties are social events where play usually breaks out. He views the socializing as a waste and wants something much more severe. How have other dominants dealt with this over the years? Does anyone know of somewhere on the Eastern US coast where something like this would even happen? I honestly think that he needs to experience it once to realize his romantisized notion of this is far from the reality and something he would NOT want to experience again. Thanks, MzKim *Once I give in to his needs, I give in to his needs.* I don't deal with a scenario like this because it is mandated, directed----My take is buh bye, there is I am sure someone out there that will make it all about him----he wants to be the center of attention? Lock him in the car naked with the alarm malfunctioning.

MistressVnus -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 12:24:49 PM)
HAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHA!!!! I have to remember that one!!

tasha_tart -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 1:58:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHathor I don't deal with a scenario like this because it is mandated, directed----My take is buh bye, there is I am sure someone out there that will make it all about him----he wants to be the center of attention? Lock him in the car naked with the alarm malfunctioning. Locked in the car had occurred to me as well, but the alarm makes it much better. Just remember to leave him a dish of water, and crack open a window! Tasha

LadyKim -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 2:11:37 PM)
Trust me......... I have explained all of this to him, left him out of activities, and completely ignored his request several times over the last 2 1/2 years. Overall, he's a good boy, and I enjoy him tremendously. However, he keeps coming back to this ONE thing despite the efforts I've taken to let him know it is not all it is cracked up to be. I agree there are times when fantasies are left in the mental realm rather than acting them out because quite honestly the reality rarely lives up to the expectations. Love the naked in a car with the alarm going off; however, it isn't really an option in this situation. He's worth the effort to train, and it is so much more difficult when you have to compete with the corrections officers for his time. LOL!!! (What a great way to get the 'buh-bye' point across though!!!) Thanks all, MzKim

MistressNoName -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 2:43:22 PM)
MzKim, As I'm sure you know, M/s comes in all shapes and sizes. And that type of M/s situation may simply not be your cup of tea, but I'm not so sure that means that your boy's expectations are unrealistic...maybe they are, but I'd have to know more about him and the situation. But maybe what he's aching for a taste of is just not something you're comfortable with doing. and that's fine. And he may just be in love with some fantasy he's got in his head. But frankly, I'd give him a little taste of it...but that is me. I'd give him a little taste of High Protocol, just to see how much he could take. It could be a point of self discovery for him and for you and an opportunity to put this issue to rest once and for all. Either he will discover that he truly is called to this type of lifestyle or he will run far from it. And you will learn whether you can truly address the needs of this submissive or if you cannot. Again, this may not be your cup of tea, but that's how I'd handle this boy. Talk is not doing it. It's time for action. MNN

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 2:45:56 PM)
Just do it. Get one of your pals to help. Don't mark his face, but give him alllll the attention he wants. It may or may not shut him up.

BotanicalMiss -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 5:26:46 PM)
Sometimes we need to give our sub/slaves exactly what they think they want. It may not be a need, but it's certainly a strong "want" of his. I agree with Lady Hibiscus on this one... get a few friends together for a night or an entire weekend if you can swing it.... and give him his heart's desire. He may love it, which then gives you an opportunity to do it again as a special reward at some point, or he may decide it's one of those things where the reality wasn't anything like the fantasy and he would never want it again... which then makes it a great threat for a future punishment! It's a win:win situation!

PanthersMom -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 5:42:10 PM)
i agree with those who say to give him what he wants. there's that old saying, "be careful what you wish for, you may get it." he may find that the fantasy is much more pleasant than the reality, or you may find something you can both get into every so often. i think anything is better than this constant irritation over this one issue. clear the air over it and move on. whatever happens, it's sure to be memorable. PM

spinntja -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 5:44:27 PM)
So what's unrealistic about that fantasy? I'm with BotanicalMiss and LabyHibiscus. Set it up and do it. I had one like this once, and arranged to have her jumped and strung up at a large public party, then lined up a string of people to do whatever they felt like (within the sub's limits, but she did not know that). I was not in a playing mood that night, so I sat and flirted with someone else, in front of said sub, while she lived out the fantasy. Eventually I left (having set up a discrete spotter first.) Lots of bored people got to play, the sub had fun -- once she got over the shock -- and I got to make my point. And no, she never did ask to do it again. Good luck with yours!

Najakcharmer -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 7:09:43 PM)
quote: While he does like the idea of objectification, he does not want the dominants just chit chatting around him while he is being objectified. He wants to be the center of attention at all times with people noticing and commenting on how he is being treated. He also wants severe punishment at all turns when out at lifestyle events again with him being the center of attention for everyone to see what he is being put through and enduring. That would be his personal ego problem, not anyone else's. Dump the selfish piggy and don't let him spoil anyone else's fun with his rude demands.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 7:19:53 PM)
<G> But isn't it WAY more fun to beat the living tar out of him first? Sorry, I am just flashing back to psychoslave, who embodied so much that was wrong....

ShaktiSama -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 8:46:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyKim I am wondering how the other Dommes out there have handled unrealistic expectations in their sub/slaves? I have a boy who has been saying for the last two years he wants high protocol and to be used really hard ... treated as a true slave to the point of nonconsentuality. When we go to lifestyle events, he expect to have type of slave 'check' at the door, then have the entire event be about punishing the slaves with as minimal service and talking as possible. [:'(] Yuck. Can't advise you. There's no way I could ever enjoy the company of a person like this even in private, much less tolerate his disgraceful attitude in public for two years. I have serious problems with people this narcissistic, dom or sub. "It's all about me" is a HUGE, monumental turn-off. And indulging this garbage is absolutely the last thing I would ever do, or even consider doing. Somebody needs to get the hell over himself.

LadyKim -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 9:05:37 PM)
There is a huge difference in indulging and teaching. I know htis sub well enough to know he does not really WANT what he is saying he does. It is just at the stage where I need to show him. The majority of this subs life is not 'all about him'. I believe that is why he has the fantasy of something which is. He actually puts himself last in almost every way in his every day life. He is not narcistic, and he is not a spoiled brat. Good grief.... there is no way I would have put up with him for 2 1/2 years if he was. He is actually very giving in his life, and he puts everyone else above himself.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Unrealistic Expectation (1/18/2008 9:30:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyKim There is a huge difference in indulging and teaching. I'm sure there is, but the two are not mutually exclusive. This is basically sounding like a "lock-the-stupid-brat-in-a-closet-with-a-box-of-cigars" approach to discipline. I've never been a big fan of it, especially given how often it backfires, but...whatever works for you. Regardless, you've already said you've ben with this person a long time, so obviously you must see all sorts of redeeming qualities. I can still say quite freely that I would hate to be with someone like this. I cannot abide people who try to dictate the form of my dominance, especially if they insist on trying to herd me into some ridiculous cliche. And spoiling my pleasure in a social event because he's not the center of attention would be a "very last date" deal-breaker for me with any man, regardless of orientation. quote: He is actually very giving in his life, and he puts everyone else above himself. Personally, I would prefer a man who puts me above all others, and has solid boundaries against pouring out all his energy for others, even if that means telling them all to go to hell. [:D] But not all women are the same, obviously, and it's good we don't all have the same tastes! Maybe the other ladies here are right, and rallying a whipping posse is the way to go. After all, I can certainly see it being a way to make him very grateful that you have so many good femme-domme friends! [:)]

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