the lifestyle question (Full Version)

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riskrewarded -> the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 2:21:01 PM)

I have always been fascinated by how militantly people insist that all D/s or M/s is a lifestyle and how people who feel its not a choice are full of crap.

This always reminds me of people who used to insist that homosexuality was a lifestyle choice.

Why is it that people are obsessed with thinking thier way is the only way?

Risk



junecleaver -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 2:39:21 PM)

Homosexuality/heterosexuality isn't a lifestyle choice?



riskrewarded -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 3:00:42 PM)

Well hun I would say most people who consider themselves gay would say no.

People just experimenting with homosexuality might be different but most people would call them bi or confused.

Calling homosexuality a lifestyle choice is considered pretty offensive and ignorant in most homosexual circles ive been exposed to.



junecleaver -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 3:16:24 PM)

Oh hm. Well, you learn something new every day. I don't actually know any openly gay people. I live in a -very- conservative town with few people willing to stand up about things like that.



haematopoiesis -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 3:19:32 PM)

By the same token, acting on it is a lifestyle choice. Just as acting on heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice. One could just as easily choose to be chaste no matter his/her inherent predilections. It is your choice to act or not act, be it with D/s or M/s or sexuality... or most any other thing out there.



CitizenCane -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 3:35:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: haematopoiesis

By the same token, acting on it is a lifestyle choice. Just as acting on heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice. One could just as easily choose to be chaste no matter his/her inherent predilections. It is your choice to act or not act, be it with D/s or M/s or sexuality... or most any other thing out there.


And your point is? It sounds rather a lot like you're suggesting that it's "okay" to be gay, or whatever, but perhaps less "okay" to act on that condition? If that's not what you're implying, I'm glad to hear it- but then what's your point?

Cane



riskrewarded -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 3:36:43 PM)

Well of course we are humans and we can make choices to deny our nature. That doesnt mean though we have a choice whether it will work or not or whether we will enjoy denying our nature.

Could slash from guns and roses be an accountant if he chose to be one?

Could andy dick be a football player?

Im certain he could but lets face it slash would make a shitty accountant and andy dick makes a good tight end only in a different context.

In denial of ones nature one makes a choice, but its a sad choice of hubris, not a viable choice for a self realized human being.



ragdoll -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 5:49:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: riskrewarded

Why is it that people are obsessed with thinking thier way is the only way?


Why do you believe someone suggesting you are making a "choice" about something means that they are insinuating that only their way is right?

My sister and her boyfriend of 3 years live together unmarried. They made the lifestyle choice to be a couple without being married. i can see they made this choice. My seeing it as a choice (rather than believing my sister was "born" with an adversion to marriage) does not mean i think my sister's choice is wrong.

Eerrrr?

i am bisexual. i actually believe i chose to be bisexual. i do not believe i was "born" bisexual.
For a long time even though i felt bisexual i was making the lifestyle choice to "act straight". Around my family i only talked about attractions to men. i only talked about "marriage" (to a man)... and i kinda dated men a little, but mostly i made the lifestyle choice not to date at all.

Now... at 25... (well more like at 24) i made the lifestyle choice to live as a bisexual. Meaning that i won't hide my attraction for both men and women. i no longer speak of "only straight marriage" and things like that when i speak about my future.

If someone else said to me "You're choosing to be bisexual... and you're choosing to live a D/s lifestyle".. i would say "Yep!" and i wouldn't necessarily think that merely because they said i were making a choice that they were somehow believing i was wrong.

For some people (i believe) that don't want to acknowledge their choices, i think maybe it's easier for them to believe they were "born ____ way".

Example. If my sister were ashamed of the fact that she was living with her boyfriend for 3 years without being married she might tell herself: "Oh, i was born this way, i was born unable to get married or born to not be married... so i don't have to feel ashamed of living with my boyfriend while unmarried, because since i was born this way i don't have to take responsibility for it."

Sort of like the difference between someone who was born with Diabetes... and someone who aquires Diabetes later in life because (at least in part) of their lifestyle choices.

.......
That said..... i do believe some people were born certain ways. i'm certain that some homosexual people are actually born homosexual. Perhaps a large percentage, i don't know. i do believe some people are born heterosexual and aren't making "choices" about anything... they are born.... that way. And that's fine.

Other people choose to be what they are.

i don't think people who are "born" one way are better or worse than people who "choose" something. For me i don't look more highly upon one than the other. You know? i do understand "some" people seem to seperate those things, but i don't.

So, riskrewarded, if you believe you were "born" dominant or "born" submissive... or "born" a kinky person, that's fine with me. ...If you believe you "chose" to be dominant or "chose" to be submissive.. or believe you "chose" to be kinky... that's also fine with me.

---

i guess haematopoiesis said it more succinctly. Whether we are born some way or not... our actual "actions" we choose (unless we are brain damaged in some way and thus have lost control of our actions).

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

And your point is? It sounds rather a lot like you're suggesting that it's "okay" to be gay, or whatever, but perhaps less "okay" to act on that condition? If that's not what you're implying, I'm glad to hear it- but then what's your point?


i took her point to mean we ALL choose our actions.. we all make lifestyle choices.

Example 1. My mother is heterosexual. She chose to "act" on her heterosexuality by marrying a man and having children. She chose to act on her interest in business by starting up her own little marketing company.

My mother didn't have to choose to "act" on her heterosexuality. She could have chosen never to marry. She could have never had sex and been celibate her whole life.

Example 2. My uncle is homosexual. He chose to "act" on his homosexuality by dating another man for 15 years (at the time my state didn't allow homosexual marriages - though it now does and my uncle might be able to get married! ^_^).

My uncle didn't have to choose to "act" on his homosexuality. He could have made the lifestyle choice to never date. He could have never had sex and been celibate his whole life.

--
i didn't see her haematopoiesis saying it was only homosexual people who didn't have to choose to act.. i saw her saying all people no matter their orientation.. no matter how they are "born"... we all make lifestyle choices. :)



RiotGirl -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 5:49:38 PM)

i agree.... with myself.

Dont think its a choice when it comes to who we are

But yes its a choice to BE who we are

Just as its a choice to breathe
To eat
To live
to sleep

Never known anyone to get anywhere living a lie. Is that the right answer? To CHOOSE to lie about who we ARE instead of choosing to BE who we are?

Who cares - even if its the wrong choice, its still OUR choice and others can take a flying leap over a rolling donut about it



sub4hire -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 6:56:47 PM)

quote:

Why is it that people are obsessed with thinking thier way is the only way?


Most people aren't. Perhaps those type of people are the only one's you know?



caitlyn -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 7:22:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: riskrewarded

Why is it that people are obsessed with thinking thier way is the only way?


I eliminate this problem in my own life, by completely changing how I feel about things on a weekly basis. This can become a bit confusing, but at least it isn't boring. [;)]




haematopoiesis -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 7:50:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CitizenCane

quote:

ORIGINAL: haematopoiesis

By the same token, acting on it is a lifestyle choice. Just as acting on heterosexuality is a lifestyle choice. One could just as easily choose to be chaste no matter his/her inherent predilections. It is your choice to act or not act, be it with D/s or M/s or sexuality... or most any other thing out there.


And your point is? It sounds rather a lot like you're suggesting that it's "okay" to be gay, or whatever, but perhaps less "okay" to act on that condition? If that's not what you're implying, I'm glad to hear it- but then what's your point?

Cane



I thought my point was that it -is- a choice. The OP was saying that the lifestyle was not a choice. I believe that it is. It is the inclination toward the lifestyle that is inherent. June cleaver brought up the example of sexuality, and so I continued with that. As I said, however, it can be applied to most any other thing out there.

I did not cast any judgement whatsoever on those who choose to act upon their sexuality, nor what method in which they do so. I even mentioned that acting on heterosexuality is a choice. My point is that we always have a choice when it comes to our actions, no matter how driven we are toward a particular thing. I will not cast judgement upon those who wish to act, or those who wish to deny themselves.

I, myself, prefer to act upon the things toward which I am driven... including a D/s lifestyle.

There are also those who believe that you chose what you would be before you were ever born, so that you did, in fact, choose your inherent tendencies. That, however, is another can of worms.

--


.. and as a side note, I certainly hope that I do not come off as militant in the statement of my beliefs.



haematopoiesis -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 8:03:33 PM)

Thank you, Ragdoll. I was concerned that perhaps I had confused everyone in my search to find the proper way to express myself.

Congratulations to your uncle if he chooses to take the state up on the legal marriage thing.


(edited for dyslexia)



riskrewarded -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 10:52:41 PM)

I really think saying everything is a lifestyle choice is a slippery slope to insisting conformity from minorities.

Of course we are human beings and we can choose anything except if we are going to die or not, that said, most choices are very loaded.

One could make the same argument that an african native sold into slavery made a "lifestyle choice" to be enslaved because they could have just chosen to be tortured to death.

Any rational person can see that this truly isnt a valid freewill lifestyle choice.

So conversly to say that someone who broke their bonds to find freedom was also making a lifestyle choice seems also to be invalid.

Where do you draw the line I guess is a question for everyone individually and no Im not saying Ive been through what african slaves went through. lol

However Im certain people, unlike myself, have lost jobs, family, community standing, etc for making the choice to live life against the grain, which this "lifestyle" most certainly does.

I digress though

as I usually do lol

anyway its fun to think about huh?

oh by the way

YOU GO RIOT GIRL!!!




riskrewarded -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 10:54:42 PM)

oh and

YOU GO CAITLYN TOO!!!

YOU WISHY WASHY THING YOU!



NakedOnMyChain -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 11:14:03 PM)

Well, this may burst a few bubbles, but there is no ONE right way for anything. We could be talking about the best sandwich at a fast food restaurant and people would disagree. People will even disagree about there not being one right way for anything. People do things for a variety of reasons. Who am I to judge them?



haematopoiesis -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 11:20:35 PM)

There are always consequences.

Some things are not a matter of "lifestyle" but are still a choice to be made.

Sometimes the choices are dismal and horrific, but they are still choices.

Luckily, for most of us, living in this lifestyle does not put us at an overt risk of death. It may, however, make our lives more difficult.

I applaud those people who persevere and honor who they are despite the adversity.

There are, of course, situations in which people have no choice so far as action goes. There is an exception to every statement and situation. I'm not sure that relates to the OP though.

Those who say that someone can choose to be something more mainstream to try and obtain conformity need to take a pause. They can also choose to be more open-minded, and thereby change the flow of said stream. But then, maybe that wouldn't be in following with who they feel that they are on the inside...

I am lucky. I have it easy. I am surrounded by open-minded people. I have my basic needs met, and quite a few of my desires fulfilled as well. I am grateful for that each and every single day of my life. I recognize as well that my life could be very different, had I made different choices.



haematopoiesis -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/29/2005 11:32:00 PM)

Don't burst bubbles! They're fey in disguise!

Less tolerance and understanding! More militant attitudes!

Darn subjectivity. Darn it all to.. to... curses. I forget where we finally agreed things should be darned to. Darn it to the pillow-stuffing factory!



LadyAngelika -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/30/2005 5:22:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: riskrewarded

Why is it that people are obsessed with thinking thier way is the only way?


I eliminate this problem in my own life, by completely changing how I feel about things on a weekly basis. This can become a bit confusing, but at least it isn't boring. [;)]



Brilliant :) I love a constantly evolving mind.

- LA



IronBear -> RE: the lifestyle question (8/30/2005 5:27:38 AM)

Talking to one of my gay friends on the mobile right now I asked him his thoughts. He was concise: “I’m gay, this is how I arrived on this earth. I chose the gay lifestyle when I came out so I could openly be with people like me.”



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