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RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 1:28:47 AM

laurell3

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Setting healthy boundaries for one's self is not the same as having authority. There are things I will never do, however, if I am with a D type within those limits, what he says goes as the authority is his. Assuming saying I'll do 95% of what you ask ever of me but please don't ask the 5% because I won't go there means someone is actually taking authority is missing the 95% which is alot of control to give up willingly.

I think it's rather rare to see a relationship where I would personally say having zero boundaries would work all that well. The KoM, kyra, alandra one is a good example of one that I think does. Watching them post, talking to kyra in emails and seeing how content they all are and how healthy the situation is for them is shows the absolute faith they have in him and how that faith is not misguided. That's not usually what we see here.

However, I disagree with kyra that having boundaries makes one just a top/bottom situation. I have very few remaining, the ones that are there are there because I know for certain I will suffer emotional or physical irreparable harm for doing so. That will not change with trust and I don't believe it makes me any less submissive for being realistic about my limitations and communicating them. I am a human being, not a role. I think the reality is that absolute power exchanges are rare and not everyone even aspires to have one.

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Post #: 41

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 4:22:44 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Yes, but I need clarification on my thoughts.

My thoughts are that a submissive does not Top from the bottom, but prior to a play situation, they say what they do not want, their limits. I respect a person's limits and will not go beyond.A relationship I have with a person I believe is based upon trust, if I break a person's limits, then I am beyond trust, and there the relationship suffers.

My thoughts as to a submissive being the one in control, is based purely on respect for their limits.

For example, I might want to do something another has an innate fear of, a massive dislike, whatever, fair enough, limits can be explored, but only in a submissives agreement.

To me, to do something outside of a person's most extreme comfort zone, can ruin a bond of trust.

I know your seeking clarification A.
However, your talking about control and domination in the same breath and that is where the confusion lies and until you work out they are different in some relationships, then you won't get the clarification you need. Your looking at it as though only submissive types set limts. Not at all true because dominants set limits too. Ds relationships aren't all one sided. Yes there are relationships where the submissive is the dominant party - but it isn't what happens in all relationships and you are making the assumption and saying that all submissive types are the ones in control. And that just isn't true.

So you asked if you were wrong to assume all submissives are the actual dominants and I would say that if you place that thought on everyone, then yes, you are wrong. Every relationship is different and you can't possibly place the same generalisation on everyone.

the.dark.

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Post #: 42

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 4:27:13 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Setting healthy boundaries for one's self is not the same as having authority.

I tend to answer before I read through all the posts so all I can say is - Aw.... why didn't I just say it that easy? Yeah, what laurell said.

the.dark.

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Post #: 43

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 8:05:42 AM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Setting healthy boundaries for one's self is not the same as having authority. There are things I will never do, however, if I am with a D type within those limits, what he says goes as the authority is his. Assuming saying I'll do 95% of what you ask ever of me but please don't ask the 5% because I won't go there means someone is actually taking authority is missing the 95% which is alot of control to give up willingly.

I agree with the dark that I like how you phrased that first sentence.

quote:

I think it's rather rare to see a relationship where I would personally say having zero boundaries would work all that well. The KoM, kyra, alandra one is a good example of one that I think does. Watching them post, talking to kyra in emails and seeing how content they all are and how healthy the situation is for them is shows the absolute faith they have in him and how that faith is not misguided. That's not usually what we see here.

I appreciate your words, laurell. It is very comforting to know that our dynamic is not seen as unhealthy.

From reading your post it appears that the way we use the word boundaries is the same. For me a boundary is there to protect my well-being and to cross it would cause harm. From that perspective we do have boundaries within our relationship. Your perception may be as a result that he decides what the boundaries are, but he does that by watching how we respond and feel about things. A couple boundaries that I have is that he will not call me stupid and that right now we will not engage in role play where I communicate "No". Both of these were set by him to help keep me from harm.

There may be fewer boundaries that are expressly dictated by him, but that is a result of his ethics and that he will not do something if there is any doubt that it may harm us. I know that I could not be in this type of relationship with someone who did not have that conviction.

quote:

However, I disagree with kyra that having boundaries makes one just a top/bottom situation. I have very few remaining, the ones that are there are there because I know for certain I will suffer emotional or physical irreparable harm for doing so. That will not change with trust and I don't believe it makes me any less submissive for being realistic about my limitations and communicating them. I am a human being, not a role. I think the reality is that absolute power exchanges are rare and not everyone even aspires to have one.

I think I have not communicated very well, if that is the perception you gained from what I said. I would disagree with that too. My post was coming from the perspective of play and the bottom saying, "you will use these toys, hit me this hard, for this amount of time and if you stray outside of that I will safeword and stop play." That was the perception I had from the OP.

It was not the perspective of, "To transfer authority over these things would be harmful to me, but I transfer authority to you in everything else." I would not describe that as a Top/bottom relationship.

To clarify any more, I think I would need to post our definitions of Top/bottom versus D/s and I am not sure I want to do that publicly and possibly derail the thread with the age old argument *g*

Knight's Kyra

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Post #: 44

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 10:56:10 AM

Evility

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
So, there are my reasons for my understanding that a submissive is in control of a play situation, and therefore can be looked upon as being the real dominant.

In a siginficant portion of D/s relationships I believe this to be the case.

Go easy on the commas.

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Post #: 45

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 11:08:05 AM

NorthernGent

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Assuming you employ limits in your relationship, I disagree with the OP.

She may have licence to offer one or two limits, but the dominant has room for a million and one things within those boundaries: limited only by his imagination and desire.

The alternative is no limits, and you can take her where you wish - within the scope of what is possible for her at any given time.

Either way, although I understand where you're coming from, I disagree.

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Post #: 46

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 11:52:22 AM

DesFIP

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You're overthinking it. The truth is we both have limits. He may have a fantasy of swinging from the ceiling fanwearing a Superman cape before leaping off and onto me. The fan would break loose from the ceiling before he got to leap.

There are things he finds unappealing so he doesn't do them. He limits them. If those things were on my most favorite list then we wouldn't be compatible.

He isn't ever going to put me in inverted suspension because I suffer from vertigo so I limit it. It also isn;t his most favorite fantasy so he doesn't care that we can't do that. We're compatible.

Just like in real life, if your top weekend activity is playing golf then I wouldn't be compatible with you. I hate golf, I wouldn';t go with you and I would nod off during your play by play, and I would resent you spending all weekend on the golf course. In that situation neither of us would be in charge, we just wouldn't be compatible.

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Post #: 47

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 12:05:41 PM

SirJohnMandevill

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

My idea of D/s, I have been told by others is incorrect. Incorrect in that my understanding of who is and who is not the real dominant person within a D/s relationship.

Maybe I think too deep, but my understanding that within a relationship, it is the submissive that is the real dominant.

I will explain my thoughts;

My understanding is in a D/s relationship, the discussion that foregoes any play situations is a situation where limits are discussed. Now it is my understanding that it is the submissive that draws the line as to what can be done and what cannot. As to the Dominant party, once the limit is drawn, it is up to them whether they go there or not, but they have a limit if they do.

Also, safewords, the utterance of stops a situation from going any further, a safety switch perhaps, and in the control of the submissive and quite rightly so.

So, there are my reasons for my understanding that a submissive is in control of a play situation, and therefore can be looked upon as being the real dominant.

It is me, to watch and understand, my aims are to get what I want, but I am aware of what another does not want and will not cross a line hitherto agreed.

So, I have explained my thoughts, tell me, am I wrong in those thoughts, have I got it completely wrong?

No right or wrong; I just don't agree. It's a case of accurately stated facts leading to a false conclusion, IMO.

Limits and safewords are there for protection. Protection does not equal Dominance. While I respect previously negotiated limits and safewords, it is I who am in control of a play session. I decide what my submissive and I will do, how we will do it, when we will do it, when to take a break and when the session is over. Also remember, there's more to Dominance that just play sessions. I expect my submissive to think for herself, but serve me and defer to my wishes.

I think that's a pretty damned good definition of Dominance.

Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)

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Post #: 48

RE: Right or wrong? - 1/20/2008 11:00:11 PM

laurell3

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Kyra I don't think we disagree. I think it comes down to what many of these threads come down to. You do in fact have boundaries. You just aren't in a dynamic where you are the one that states that they will be followed, however, you have faith in the fact that he will be the one to know those, question you about them, allow you to state what they are and not do anything unhealthy to you. Not all relationships have that type of history or even are as well thought out and loving as yours. My point is that if you are in a relationship where you do express your boundaries and expect compliance with them it doesn't mean you are "topping from the bottom" or taking authority. I'm not sure I made that clear.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 1/20/2008 11:26:33 PM >

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Post #: 49