RE: Is chatting on line cheating? (Full Version)

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vampiresscammy -> RE: Is chatting on line cheating? (1/20/2008 10:31:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tasha_tart

Yes he is cheating.
 
Though I'm far from proud of it, I have been on his end of it.  It was one of the contributors to the breakdown of my marriage.
 
It far too easy to kid yourself that it's not real, it's just on line, I'm not hurting anyone, what he or she doesn't know won't hurt him or her.  Those are all lame rationalizations at best and lies at worst.
 
One spends time and emotional energy seeking something on line that would be better spent nurturing one's offline relationship and dealing with with whatever deficiencies, real or perceived, that have led to seeking emotional fulfilment on the internet.
 
If your relationship with your partner is not fulfilling you, that needs to be faced head on.  Taking refuge in the cyber world, and going behind your partner's back to do so, is avoidance.
 
It's also a major betrayal of trust, especially when the lies about it begin.
 
It can also hurt those to whom you relate on line.  It's too easy to trample on their emotions while satisfying whatever needs you have.
 
As for it being your little secret...don't bet on it.  It's too easy to get found out, and once the secret is out you are going to give yourself away again and again, no matter how careful you think you're being.  If nothing else, the "deer in the headlights" look will give you away when confronted by your partner.
 
I know all this from experience.  I thought it was harmless, and didn't realize the damage I was doing until it was too late.  I thought it was a way of dealing with issues in my marriage, that I couldn't/wouldn't honestly sort out with my ex-wife. 
 
I can't get a "do over" on it, but I certainly won't repeat it.  I do try to learn from history.
 
Getting beyond my experience now, if you are getting calls from his "on line" girls this has passed waaaaaaaay beyond armless flirtation.  It is definitely cheating, IMO.
 
Ultimately only you can decide whether you can live with this betrayal of trust, and whether the two of you can reach an accommodation on it.  As Ann Landers was fond of saying, "Ask yourself if you are better off with or without him" then act accordingly.
 
Good luck.
 
Tasha


/agree with most of what Tasha said. bieng on that side of things as well, my own persoanl experiance, came about due to my lack of being upfront with hubby about a problem i was having, and desperately needing/wanting him to fix it without tellign him it was bothering me so much, so i treid to find my outlet elsewhere. it all came out, i got caught, he was hurt beyond all he could express, i spent weeks/months making amends and gaining his trust back, neither of us were willing to simply throw what we had away, and i made it crystal clear i wanted him, not the other, gave up the other and we took very little tiny baby steps forward in fixing things, from that day on, i've never withheld a thing from him, even if i thought he migh tnot like/might hate, might be utterly disturbed by what i wanted/needed/ had to say. now, several years later, we are much stronger/closer and much happier. it was a very hard road to get passed it, and soemtimes i still have moments when i wish i could take it all back, i never meant to hurt him, but had no idea how to express myself and did nto give himt he benefit that he might listen. never again. its all working out well, and i thank my lucky stars that he forgave me.

i dont agree with once a cheater, always a cheater, i've foudn that statement to be a bunch of rubbish. but i worked very hard to keep my husband. so, i guess my answer would be, talk to him. find out why he felt the need to keep this from you. find out if he is willing to do whatever it takes to make you feel better and move beyond this. ask yourself, if you want to work it out, if he is worth giving a second chance. and above all, ask him if from now if you say your not okay with this, if he will honor that and not do it, or if you two can agree its not an issue as long as he does not lie about it. decide if you want to work things out with him, and then make sure he is willing to sit down, discuss what you both want to happen from here out, and then find out is he is willing to do that.

i'm so sorry you were hurt, i hope whatever you decide works out the best for you.



CalifChick -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 10:40:45 AM)

I know a couple of people have said don't give up on him yet... but he doesn't seem the least bit interested in changing things, so what is the point of putting yourself thru continued turmoil?

My story is eerily similar to DVamp's story.  I caught him, he excused it away, I installed a keystroke logger/screen shot program on our computer, and the next day I had the proof.  I didn't tell him about the program, but I quoted him several things he said to her.  He promised to end it with her, I gave him two days.  In two days, he said she was "gone".  I checked the keystroke program the next day and nothing had changed.  I confronted him again, we went to marriage counseling (at his request). 

The short version of my story is that we were in marriage counseling for about a year and he lied his entire way through it (I didn't know it at the time, but he admitted it some time later after I filed for divorce).  The story he was telling to these women?  His life was basically where it was when he and his first wife split... I did not exist, our marriage did not exist, and our brand new little one did not exist (that one hurt more than anything - because he had been tested as infertile and she was our little miracle).  His "main" girl thought he was going to move across the country and marry her.  She was surprised when she learned the truth, but that did not stop her from continuing contact with him.

Our marriage counselor really hammered home the point to him that not only was he deceiving me, but he was deceiving and betraying all these innocent women that believed him, believed that he loved them, believed they had found their true soulmate, etc. 

I thought everything was okay until about a year or so after we stopped marriage counseling.  The day came that I got a call from our cell phone carrier, because "your bill is a bit high, ma'am".  He had racked up $750 in charges in three weeks time talking to women he first contacted on the internet.  That was after he blew thru 1500 free daytime minutes.

Do you want to be the woman who gets that phone call?  Worse... do you want to be the woman who has to go to other people for help on that?

The ironic part?  I left 18 months ago, now waiting on my divorce to be final, and he has spent the last 18 months trying to convince me to come back, that he has changed.  Too little, way too late.  The last time he started giving me his speech about how much he changed and that he doesn't talk to those women anymore, I grabbed his cell phone from his hand and scrolled thru his calls, reading off name after name of women that he never gave up, not during counseling, not after he was caught again, and not in the 18 months since we've been apart.  He can't stop lying and I don't think he ever will.

Okay well, maybe that was more than the short version.  But I can so easily see this happening to you.

My rule is "no secrets, no lies".  And believe it or not, it is okay with me if the man in my life flirts with women, as long as it is just flirting.  Frankly, I'm the bigger flirt, but I don't lie to anyone, and I don't misrepresent my life or my status. I'm not living with anyone right now, but when that day comes, he can look at my chat logs anytime he wants.  I have nothing to hide.

Edited to add... before anyone who knows my views on open/poly/whatever relationships jumps on me on the other side... without adding another page of text to this already long post, this is about deception, which has no place in my view of non-monogamous relationships.

Cali



LadyPact -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 10:44:03 AM)

My definition of cheating isn't an exact match to what some consider it.  I'm poly, so to some, I'm automatically cheating.  However, I say I'm not cheating, as I am open and up front in all of My relationships.  My husband and My sub know each other very well.  (In fact, both are in the same house with Me right now.)  My play partners know about them both, and in most cases have met them.  The people that I talk to on line know about everyone above that I've mentioned.  Some of them even know them by name. 

The key point is that I'm honest with everyone that I contact, and who has contact with Me.  There is no hiding anything from anyone.  In fact, both My husband and My sub can probably name the folks that I talk to on line, say hello to them when they see who I'm conversing with, and send their best wishes. 

There's a big difference in this and what you are experiencing.  If I felt the need to hide any of this, I would, in fact, consider it cheating.  There's no need for deception in a relationship.



orfunboi -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 10:48:17 AM)

To me, cheating is going out and having sex with someone behind my back. Since you can't have sex online, that would not be cheating to me. That would be lying, lying to you and lying to the women he talks to online. Why would you put up with that? How can you trust that anything he says is true?



vampiresscammy -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 10:58:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

My definition of cheating isn't an exact match to what some consider it.  I'm poly, so to some, I'm automatically cheating.  However, I say I'm not cheating, as I am open and up front in all of My relationships.  My husband and My sub know each other very well.  (In fact, both are in the same house with Me right now.)  My play partners know about them both, and in most cases have met them.  The people that I talk to on line know about everyone above that I've mentioned.  Some of them even know them by name. 

The key point is that I'm honest with everyone that I contact, and who has contact with Me.  There is no hiding anything from anyone.  In fact, both My husband and My sub can probably name the folks that I talk to on line, say hello to them when they see who I'm conversing with, and send their best wishes. 

There's a big difference in this and what you are experiencing.  If I felt the need to hide any of this, I would, in fact, consider it cheating.  There's no need for deception in a relationship.



/agree with all Ladypact said too! but, let me add in for clarity here, there was much about me i was comign to terms with myself when all the badness took place in my marriage, thats what happens when one grow up as it were, and as these changes happened, i did not own up to all of them to my hubby right away, instead tried to deny them and stepped out to fill a need/deisre i never told him about, but since then, its been nothing but honesty, even if painful and that is why we have continued. we chose to stay together and make it work because i proved to him i truly wanted him and our marriage. we sat down decided what we wanted, what our 'rules' were and have done our best to uphold them, changing or remolding them when they needed it.

i'm not saying this guy is definitely worth it to try adn fix it, all im saying is be sure before you toss him aside and give him a chance to see if he is even willign to change, maybe hes not, you should be able to tell by talking to him. or if its not worht it move on.



BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 11:02:22 AM)

Confused Kitten,  Wouldn't it be wonderful for you to hear one, just one person here tell you that what he did was justified.  That it makes perfect sense that he would lie to the other girls about his relationship status.  He would have to.  They wouldn't understand that he was being perfectly harmless.  He would have told them soon that he lives with someone, right?  It's even OK that he probably uses terms of endearment with them that he uses with you.  Even better if he USES TERMS OF ENDEARMENT WITH THEM THAT HE LEARNED FROM YOU!  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right boo?
Silly girl.  He will change.  All men change for the right woman.  What an awful girlfriend you ar for not realizing that.  You should be doing more..be better...be prettier...work harder....
You have been with him for a year right?  Well then.  There you have it.    A year is an awfully long investment of time.Then again, so is 2, 3, 4, 5, even 10 or how about 15 years?

Think about 15 years down the road.. You got married..  "It'll get better now, we're married after all..  "
You have a baby..''Oh, it'll get better now.  He's a dad, we'll be a happy family..  The years pass..  Nothing changes.. They even get worse.  He goes out every day and gives the best of himself to the outside world, to all those other people and comes home to his family and shits on them.  But he will continue to blame you and you will believe it.... Maybe one day you will find out all about the secret life he leads.. All of the other women that he says "I love you" to.. Oh but it's OK honey, I didn't cheat on you.  I didn't stick my dick inside any orifice of her body..

He will say all the right things that he needs to keep you from leaving him.  Crying, begging, pleading.... It'll tug at your heart.  You may even fall for the words for a while the first time.  maybe even the second time too. After a while you realize that they were just empty words with no actions to back them up...You realize that you have been enabling this person, this stranger for years and now you have lost a huge part of your life to unhappiness.. Something that you could have stopped 14 years ago.

Time is going to march on no matter what you choose to do.  You need to decide whether to use your time on this earth wisely or are you going to allow yourself to waste your life on someone who never deserved you?

In answer to your question..Is chatting online cheating?    Yes. 



MissHarlet -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 11:44:19 AM)

Anything that has to be lied about is cheating in one form or another... if there is not need to lie .. then there is no cheating...



swtnsparkling -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 5:58:03 PM)

quote:

do you think its ok to pose as single and chat up members of the opposite sex?


If the person is already in a relatrionship and hides that they are chatting up some one of the opposite sex, then No I don't think it's ok. If they have to hide then they are doing some thing wrong and they know it.

If it is just innocent chat as friends there is no reason to hide and lie about it, is there?



ifheonlyknew -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 6:09:32 PM)

 I am so sorry to hear you are going thru this.  I just got out of a relationship where he was doing the same thing, but he took he a little further and met someone.  Flew her to his house on a weekend I didn't see him.  I knew he was doing something wrong because he wouldn't let me on his computer when I was there.  Needless to say I found out what I needed to know and we are no longer together and the other girl is with someone new now.  Good luck :)



KaylinSilverfurr -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/20/2008 8:00:33 PM)

-fast reply-

1. The fact he claimed himself as a single Dom.
2. The fact that he did not tell you about it until after he was caught.
3. The fact that he still keeps chatting with these women, despite the obvious hurt it causes you.

First thing I did when I made a profile here on collarme.com, was I made in explicitly clear that I have a significant other and that I was not interested in anything BUT FREIND'S ONLY. I keep my other half very aware of who and what I chat about, and he trusts me not to violate that. If your guy was just interested in meeting new friends for the sake of BDSM related conversation and information, he would have been upfront with not only you, but the ohter women he's been chatting with.
The one time I caught my other half using a phone sex service (years ago mind you) was only because I got to the phone bill before he did. I was shocked, needless to say, at the fact that he HADN'T told me upfront. He appologised profusely and said it would never happen again.
It hasn't.

~Kaylin

P.S. I was more shocked that he hadn't told me about it, for one, and shocked at how outrageously expensive the call was. 250$ phone bill my ass.



Bamslilgirl -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 2:07:58 PM)

Just my opinion, but if He's posting without your knowledge at ALL, it would be considered cheating to ME. And, if He's posting as "single", well hell that's definitely dishonest on His part. I wouldn't put up with it for a minute. Tell Him how you feel, & make some ground rules for this chatting thing.



FRSguy -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 2:21:45 PM)

If you feel as though its cheating than it is. You could in some cases give him the benefit of the doubt so to speak if it was a line in the sand for you and not for him then he did need to know where that line was.  Anytime someone lies to you its a really bad flag however it might not be a relationship crushing blow.  You might try joining him to see what hes up to.  At least then you get to really figure out what is going on with him.



Prinsexx -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 3:01:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: confusedkitten

Hi all,

I just wondered what others' take on this was. I've been with my partner for a year now and have recently found out that for most of that time he's been using this and other bdsm websites to pose as a single male dom and chat/flirt/msn and occasionally even call eligible young subs.

It was the to my face lying that really hurts the most as up until he couldn't deny it any longer he was still telling me I was just being insecure and paranoid and that the girls that were contacting me to ask whether we were still together were just making everything up.. and stupid , trusting me just swallowed every word. But leaving trust issues aside, do you think its ok to pose as single and chat up members of the opposite sex?

I'm genuinely curious what others think, as although he's apologised, he continues to maintain that what he's doing is perfectly acceptable and not that big a thing as he never meets the girls he's talking to. While I accept that it's not as bad as actually physically cheating, I can't help thinking that you can't be happy in a relationship if you're needing to get your thrills online.. from strangers.. and although he says he'd never meet them, surely it's only a matter of time before you come across someone who you do genuinely spark with.. and really how committed to a relationship can you really be if you're happy to pretend you're single half the time?

On the other hand.. I guess as long as the girls he's talking to also accept it as just online fun, then maybe it is harmless, as he says.. it's just.. why did he do everything he could to keep it from me if he genuinely believed that?

Sorry for the rambling.. if anyones got this far I'd really appreciate you're input as I'm so confused right now!

CF x

i think it's the lying that hurts msot...it seems like it is a need, he has to do it to char...so you will either have to botjh consent that he can, or build it into the dynamic that you have no say in whether he chats on line or not, or ask permission for you to be able to do it too...or find out what is his purpose...maybe he feels constrained by monogamy...can't think of any other solutions really....but trying to stop someone from lying though is like trying to turn an ocean liner........
i like the dynamic i am in at the moment as master P has given the responsibility of finding others to play with to me and i rather enjoy all the chatting and some meets and mails



phoenix92901 -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 3:14:38 PM)

Why did he feel the need to keep his online activities from you?  Why is he posing as a Dom looking for a sub when you clearly have an exclusive relationship?  What is he telling the women he chats with if they're under the impression that he's single and available?
 
No matter the flavor of the relationship, it boils down to communication, trust and respect.  He's obviously not communicating with you nor does he respect you or the relationship you two have.  If you really want to think about it, he's not respecting the other women he chats with either because it's under a pretense.
 
Here's a thought (and it's just my opinion):  I might be new to the D/s lifestyle but I've been around the block enough times in the vanilla world to know that someone who hides his/her online flirtations is probably lacking in self esteem and therefore seeks that ego boost.  Does a person like that really have the strength of character to be a good Dominant?  From what I've learned so far, it doesn't sound like it.  Again, it's about communication, trust and respect.  You're worth all of that and more.
 



Nevershyau -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 7:29:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: confusedkitten

Hi all,

I just wondered what others' take on this was. I've been with my partner for a year now and have recently found out that for most of that time he's been using this and other bdsm websites to pose as a single male dom and chat/flirt/msn and occasionally even call eligible young subs.

It was the to my face lying that really hurts the most as up until he couldn't deny it any longer he was still telling me I was just being insecure and paranoid and that the girls that were contacting me to ask whether we were still together were just making everything up.. and stupid , trusting me just swallowed every word. But leaving trust issues aside, do you think its ok to pose as single and chat up members of the opposite sex?

I'm genuinely curious what others think, as although he's apologised, he continues to maintain that what he's doing is perfectly acceptable and not that big a thing as he never meets the girls he's talking to. While I accept that it's not as bad as actually physically cheating, I can't help thinking that you can't be happy in a relationship if you're needing to get your thrills online.. from strangers.. and although he says he'd never meet them, surely it's only a matter of time before you come across someone who you do genuinely spark with.. and really how committed to a relationship can you really be if you're happy to pretend you're single half the time?

On the other hand.. I guess as long as the girls he's talking to also accept it as just online fun, then maybe it is harmless, as he says.. it's just.. why did he do everything he could to keep it from me if he genuinely believed that?

Sorry for the rambling.. if anyones got this far I'd really appreciate you're input as I'm so confused right now!

CF x


I'd be more concerned about the lies than if it is cheating.

No confusion he is looking for others whether it's just for fun playing the others or a genuine seeking a sub if you are not aware it is wrong.

I chat & flirt but my sub knows & is fully aware, open & honest is the only way.



meticulousgirl -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 8:01:23 PM)

if it drew up a red flag and made you post this then it needs to be discussed....in mine no it's not cheating, there is no cheating because we dont have a relationship other than Master and slave, He is more than free to see whomever He chooses, i never meet them, i never speak to them unless He chooses to allow it, do i see that as wrong, no.  It's His choice to make, and i accepted that along time ago when i choose to become His slave.

Sit down and talk to Him about this, it's not worth the hurt that is going to stir up and explode at the exact moment you dont want it to...

Best wishes and trust me you will get through this.

~meticulous~




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/21/2008 8:42:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

Confused Kitten,  Wouldn't it be wonderful for you to hear one, just one person here tell you that what he did was justified.  That it makes perfect sense that he would lie to the other girls about his relationship status.  He would have to.  They wouldn't understand that he was being perfectly harmless.  He would have told them soon that he lives with someone, right?  It's even OK that he probably uses terms of endearment with them that he uses with you.  Even better if he USES TERMS OF ENDEARMENT WITH THEM THAT HE LEARNED FROM YOU!  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right boo?
Silly girl.  He will change.  All men change for the right woman.  What an awful girlfriend you ar for not realizing that.  You should be doing more..be better...be prettier...work harder....
You have been with him for a year right?  Well then.  There you have it.    A year is an awfully long investment of time.Then again, so is 2, 3, 4, 5, even 10 or how about 15 years?

Think about 15 years down the road.. You got married..  "It'll get better now, we're married after all..  "
You have a baby..''Oh, it'll get better now.  He's a dad, we'll be a happy family..  The years pass..  Nothing changes.. They even get worse.  He goes out every day and gives the best of himself to the outside world, to all those other people and comes home to his family and shits on them.  But he will continue to blame you and you will believe it.... Maybe one day you will find out all about the secret life he leads.. All of the other women that he says "I love you" to.. Oh but it's OK honey, I didn't cheat on you.  I didn't stick my dick inside any orifice of her body..

He will say all the right things that he needs to keep you from leaving him.  Crying, begging, pleading.... It'll tug at your heart.  You may even fall for the words for a while the first time.  maybe even the second time too. After a while you realize that they were just empty words with no actions to back them up...You realize that you have been enabling this person, this stranger for years and now you have lost a huge part of your life to unhappiness.. Something that you could have stopped 14 years ago.

Time is going to march on no matter what you choose to do.  You need to decide whether to use your time on this earth wisely or are you going to allow yourself to waste your life on someone who never deserved you?

In answer to your question..Is chatting online cheating?    Yes. 
There is so much truth here, that it hurts..and always remember......You cannot change a man's behavior...Change comes from within..Tempting



MasterRoad -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/23/2008 12:09:14 AM)

This is a topic which is a bit sticky for Me. I had one of the best relationships of My life with one who was in what I considered a mess, but she felt comfortable in. one in which many who were unaware were also involved. Although technically I would say yes, it is cheating, I would also have to say that if it was just a conversation, it wouldn't be. My time spent with her online was extremely rewarding and I grew to hold a special bond with her that means the world to Me. Talking with someone and having an emotional bond with them can be extremely rewarding for each. If they are honest with one another, I would say no - it is not cheating, but is something that is priceless and irreplaceable.

In this instance though, where he was telling the others that he was unattached, that is wrong. As wrong as if he were meeting with them behind your back.

I guess it is a fine line which must be drawn by each individual on how they choose to feel. I wish you the best of luck in sorting it out.



Dnomyar -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/23/2008 4:26:41 AM)

I agree with what MissMagnolia said. I will take this one step further. It is time for you to move on. Your being fed a line of BS. If your willing to stay and put up with it then dont whine about it.



MissAnthropic -> RE: Is chatting online cheating? (1/23/2008 8:50:42 AM)

It doesnt matter if he's cheating or not, regardless the real issue here is you don't feel like you cant trust him anymore. IMHO BDSM relies more so than any other relationship upon trust as a basic foundation, along with open and honest communication, commitment and love. Just going through that list it sounds like theres more than a few of those foundations eroding and you have to question what are you getting out of this relationship?

Is it making you happy, are you content? Do you feel fulfilled as a friend, as a lover as a human being? Further do you feel that if he's looking elsewhere he's feeling any of these things?

I really think you should be talking to him and not to us, if you hope to save this relationship HOWEVER..........

If it were me I'd be showing him the door. It may sound harsh but you appear to be supporting him and he sees you as a mealticket while he has absolutely no concern for you whatsoever.  He could be out getting a part time job to help pay the bills but he's playing cyber grab arse. That in itself says an awful lot about his lack of self respect and how little respect he has for you.

cheers

jess



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