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ElanSubdued -> RE: Do I expect too much? (1/20/2008 4:03:24 PM)
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Just a few comments based on what people have said. I hope these come across gracefully and respectfully.
quote:
BotanicalMiss:
I also make it clear in the beginning that they will be responsible for providing 'play space' whether it be in their own home, or in a nearby hotel.
If this is what you have mutually negotiated, I see no problem. However, as a submissive, I have no more desire than any domme I know to finance or be the prop of another kinkster's fantasy. Actually, let me correct that. I'm happy to be a prop if there is something in it for me too. More importantly though, this isn't my mindset at all. When meeting a domme, I like to feel mutually engaged and interested in one another. The chemistry flows back and forth. If the situation turns into "you must pay so that we can play", eh, I'm not likely to stick around. I find this offensive. It makes me feel homogenized, stereotyped, and used. If it turns out organically that I end up providing or paying for the play space, I'm okay with this. However, I'd far rather this occur because I offer to host (as a gesture of affection) rather than my responding to what is really nothing more than a loosely veiled ultimatum ("you must pay, or I won't meet you"). The later modus operandi causes me to take the exit door every time and I may not be particularly polite about this either - assertive little bitch that I can sometimes be. For me, this problem hasn't come up in years because I only approach people who appear to have roughly the same goals that I do. If it comes up early in the conversation that we're looking for mutually incompatible things, I just politely say "thanks, I enjoyed chatting, but that's not for me". By the time the chemistry builds to the point where we'd want to meet, we're both invested enough that the issue of who pays is rather moot. It's more a question of logistics, courtesy, and common sense at this point. Oh, and old-fashioned romance and courting come in here too.
quote:
BotanicalMiss:
Anyway... I recently met a sub for lunch and had a very nice time. One thing he kept mentioning was that he had met a few Dommes, and they either disappeared after meeting or "couldn't even spank a man right" (his words). My schedule ended up changing after arranging a second meeting, and I was accused of doing the same as "all the others."
Hmmm. There are several warning flags here. It sounds like this submissive has a preset agenda that accounts for you, but doesn't necessarily involve you. His rudeness is also a turn off.
quote:
BotanicalMiss:
Call it pride or whatever, but I decided that even though it went against my grain, I would agree to give him his fantasy session... provided he drove down here (a little over an hour drive) and got a hotel room... which he immediately agreed to. Then, two days before the meet, I get an email saying how much it costs for his gas, and then to have to get a room, was just too much... and he wanted me to drive to him... there's even a Dairy Queen next to the place where he was going to get a room! woohoo!
I understand the pride thing. As human beings, we sometimes allow this to get the better of us. I think is was a mistake to agree to meet this guy. You didn't have good feelings about your first meeting and then, after negotiating a more quid pro quo oriented meeting ("you pay and I'll show you the metal"), the submissive failed to live up to his part of the agreement. It probably would have been wise to cut your losses here and not give the boy any more of your time.
quote:
BotanicalMiss:
Anyway, I told him that I was doing this for him, giving him his fantasy, and if he wanted it he had to come and get it... take it or leave it... and I get a reply saying that I only want people to spend money on me, I obviously have no idea what I'm doing if I was "doing it for him", and I certainly wouldn't have any idea what to do with him anyway... and he let me know that "oh, btw, he had gone to a Femdom party where they had food and drinks, and didn't make him spend any money and they caned him so he was sore for a week."
The boy threw a hissy fit because he couldn't get professional service for free. Now I'm not saying you were offering professional services, but this is how he was treating you. As above, I think it was a mistake to let things get this far. Rudeness, especially up front, isn't a good indicator of compatibility. This was your third set of warnings of incompatibility and I'd just accept it and move on.
quote:
BotanicalMiss:
Yes, I know they were spiteful little insults...
Yes, they were.
quote:
BotanicalMiss:
but I wonder... do I expect too much, to want an actual relationship where I'm not expected to "perform" as a Domme as soon as I meet someone? To me, his "offer" was no better than being told as a nilla woman that after spending $15 on lunch with me a few weeks ago, it just cost too much money for him to come to me, so I was supposed to drive to him and fuck him the way he wanted it... and then get rewarded with an ice cream cone afterwards.
No, you don't expect too much. Your cheap/quick fuck analogy is spot on. The submissive treated you with astounding rudeness. Discard him and don't give the matter a second thought. What I would give second thought to is following warning signs when they occur. Next time, if a boy challenges you this way, just ignore it. There is no need for you to prove anything to anybody. If the chemistry feels good between you and a submissive, by all means agree to meet them, but when things unravel as they did here, heed your early warning signals and exit stage left quickly!
quote:
Shawn1066
You don't expect too much at all... well... unless expecting to be treated like a sane human being is a little too much.
I concur one hundred percent. :-)
quote:
AtlantaMistress:
You must have the confidence to realize that you are a GODDESS, and any sub who is LUCKY enough to serve you should be doing anything he can to make YOU happy!
People who meet and who enjoy one another are mutually lucky. The only way I know for any kind of relationship to work is when partners find mutual enjoyment and have a mutual desire to invest in the other.
quote:
AtlantaMistress:
Although there are many "subs" that are not worthy of my time (or yours!) there are plenty out there that are sincere and will truly submit and find happiness in serving/pleasing you. Wasting your time with ones that aren't just keeps you from finding the one that will be right for you.
This makes a lot of sense to me and I think it is excellent advice.
quote:
AtlantaMistress:
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is easy, but I know I have gotten much better with time of weaning out the bad from the good, the real from the wanna be's, and rather than let someone like this guy you write about get me down, I would put him in his place, let him know it is HIS LOSS, and get more power totally believing that!
Two thoughts.
1.) The whole issue of "real" versus "unreal or wanna' be" seems a waste of effort. Everyone is real. The question is whether partners have compatible desires and goals, and whether they are interested in sharing these with one another. This harkens back to a thread I posted quite a while ago (and whose sentiments I have echoed on Collar Me many times). In my opinion, the number one criteria for a BDSM partner is that I like that partner as person in general. If you don't like someone, why would you want to spend time with them in any capacity? This simple filtering mechanism works wonders and it often avoids worrying about the kinky stuff. Because, for the same reason, why worry about the kinky stuff if the foundation isn't there? When the foundation isn't there, the BDSM stuff doesn't matter.
2.) About "putting the sub in his place", I honestly don't think this is a good idea. I'd suggest leaving the guy alone and moving on. No matter who you are in the equation, negative karma takes something out of the giver and the receiver. If you think constructive feedback may be helpful and well received, hmmm... I might make the effort in this case. But, I think most of us kinksters would agree that usually these cases involve a fundamental breakdown in communication. Thus, no matter how well intended, in such circumstances feedback is usually received poorly. This is why I say, just move on. The submissive in Botanical's case most certainly has some lessons to learn, but I don't think he is going to learn them from her. I'm not saying one should allow people to walk all over you, but the old adage "pick you battles wisely" holds true here.
quote:
LadyPact:
The first bottom who complained to Me about how expensive gas was to get to the arranged place, would be the first bottom looking for another Top. If My time, experience, skill, and company aren't worth the price of gas, there's a problem.
In my opinion, if this is the mindset between partners, the mindset itself is more a problem than the price of gas. If people are measuring their value of one another based on a tank of gas, seemingly they don't have much invested in one another as human beings. When I meet a person who tickles my imagination, who makes me laugh, who romances me and makes me feel desired, who shares her intelligence and interest in me as a person, I know darned well that I'm a lucky man. Conversely, when the chemistry is mutual, I've never met a woman who didn't consider herself lucky to be the focus of my similar attention.
quote:
onegoodgirl:
He sure sounds like a whiny little snot. I'm sure his short-comings are of no real reflection of you.
Without having heard both sides, admittedly this does seem to sum things up rather nicely. :-)
Elan.
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