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5 terms - 1/20/2008 8:02:59 PM   
NorthsideBill


Posts: 37
Joined: 3/11/2007
From: Indianapolis, Indiana
Status: offline 		We had our munch tonight and the group discussion question was interesting so I thought I would post it here and see what people thought. The question was: What do the 5 following terms mean to you...BDSM, Old Leather, New Leather, Gor and Kinkster.

There were some very interesting and emotional answers around the room and it got me to thinking and wondering what others here might have to say. So answer if you will


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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 8:14:44 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthsideBill

What do the 5 following terms mean to you...BDSM, Old Leather, New Leather, Gor and Kinkster.


BDSM:  An umberella term, combining three acronyms:  BD, DS, SM.  (Bondage/Discipline, Dominance/Submission, Sadism/Masochism or SadoMasochism).

Old Leather:  Probably the old gay community of soldiers.

New Leather:  Don't know, don't care. :P

Gor:  A male supremacy community based off the fictional works of some guy.  Tend to be heavily into formalities used in the books; sorta like their Bible.  Hell, they even quote it like a preacher would the Bible.  :P

Kinkster:  Someone into non-vanilla activities.  Exactly where the line is drawn for this will likely have some variance from individual to individual, usually placing the line closer to themselves than someone further from it might.

(in reply to NorthsideBill)
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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 8:18:57 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		To me BDSM means that i am loved, cared for and more sexually fulfilled then i have ever been.

It means giving up control and getting my freedom from giving up that control.



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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 8:22:36 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		BDSM...a mixture of the "dark" side of sex and a D/s dynamic
Old Leather... Homosexual men into BDSM
New Leather...haven't hear that one, so I wouldn't know how to comment.
Gor...those that frame their lives around a series of fiction books written buy Norman
Kinkster...people who enjoy non-vanilla sex


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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 8:22:39 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline 		I probably have no business answering this, but I do have some definition in my mind, and I won't mind being corrected or made fun of.

BDSM - Bondage/Dominance, Sadism/Masochism; a form of relationship in which one partner maintains a position of dominance; in some cases pain is involved.

Old Leather - I suppose this means something like whips and floggers of a style used in years gone by.

New Leather - see above; this would be new designs of leather toys. (But for the life of me it sounds like a car air freshener fragrance.)

Gor - a style of BDSM relationship that follows a pattern outlined in the series of science fiction books by John Norman (I think that's his name).

Kinkster - this sounds to me like a rather derogatory name for someone who lives mostly a vanilla lifestyle but likes to have kinky sex.

*ducking into my ridicule-proof shelter*


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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 8:59:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels
BDSM - Bondage/Dominance, Sadism/Masochism; a form of relationship in which one partner maintains a position of dominance; in some cases pain is involved.

Discipline really is becoming the forgotten D in bdsm.

For me:
BDSM = bondage, discipline, sadism and masochism.  Four very specific and very limited types of kinky activities

Old Leather = if someone used the term, I'd guess they meant it as a synonym for either old guard or older leather culture or generally a ragtag culture which formed due to social repressive culutre and the availability of space which often gets idealized and deified in modern kink culture, specially amongst heterosexuals

New Leather = again to me I would assume they meant as a synonym to new guard or the new wave of leather in a less socially repressive and far more active and technologically connected culture

Gor = a specific form of authority dynamic inspired from the set of novels based on gender stereotypes and causes extreme divisiveness in general heterosexual kink culture

Kinkster = someone generally into a type or set of activities defined as "kinky" or alternative pleasure

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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 9:42:46 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear NorthsideBill, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Munch and or any other group discussions are wonderful as far as bringing up things that are interesting to discuss.
 
For me, BDSM has long been associated with Bondage, Discipline, Sado-Masochism.  I have heard some use it as Bondage, Domination, Sadism, Masochism and some define it as Bondage, Domination, Slave and Master.  It is my preference to use the most understood terms, of Bondage, Discipline, Sado-Masochism.  That said, like DoA, it could mean Department of the Army for some and for others--Dead on Arrival.
 
Old Leather, which is actually timely which I have come from the Mid-Atlantic Leather Conference.  Majority of attendees are Gay Leathermen who ranged from 70 years old to 21 and everything in between.  The group I was in during the discussion of 'terms' -- disagree that Old Leather is strictly 'Gay.'  To all of us, in this discussion -- Old Leather has more meaning as to philosophy.  The principal philosophy was about Commitment to Community and Supporting one another. 
 
New Leather, to which was part of the discussion in the group, disagree that New Leather is strictly 'Gay.'  To those participating with me in the discussion, New Leather meant the individuals are learning what Old Leather philosophy is all about, which is about community, commitment, support and values but, in addition adding fresh ideas, fresh applications and fresh energy in the community, as to continue support, aid to others within the community as well as education.
 
Gor, which is often associated with John Norman in his Gor series of novels, to which I understand there are over 20 books on the on going saga.  To my understanding, there are many tribal differences and these tribal differences are associated to areas on Gor, that influence the application of traditions and or rituals.  Although fictional, honor is to be the highest priority principal, battles are often engaged due to challenges of 'honor.'  It is my understanding, that there are policing elements which are carried out by 'assassins' per se however, the head of the group/tribe is usually the foremost authority and adjudication is handled swiftly.  It is very heavily inclined to be male dominated and women left to forms of submission and or slavery.  It is further, in my opinion that the 'female slaves'/kajira are service slaves to which covers from the beginner level to the more advanced slaves.  Male slaves are not always met with kindness and seen as weak.  There is only one faction that is dominated by females and male slaves are kept for their service and pleasure.
 
Kinkster--I do believe that this term is tossed about and can mean many things to many people.
What I do know, it is used frequently as to distinguish themselves different from the vanilla aspects and or different from main stream society.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to NorthsideBill)
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RE: 5 terms - 1/20/2008 10:14:12 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels
BDSM - Bondage/Dominance, Sadism/Masochism; a form of relationship in which one partner maintains a position of dominance; in some cases pain is involved.

Discipline really is becoming the forgotten D in bdsm.

For me:
BDSM = bondage, discipline, sadism and masochism.  Four very specific and very limited types of kinky activities

Old Leather = if someone used the term, I'd guess they meant it as a synonym for either old guard or older leather culture or generally a ragtag culture which formed due to social repressive culutre and the availability of space which often gets idealized and deified in modern kink culture, specially amongst heterosexuals

New Leather = again to me I would assume they meant as a synonym to new guard or the new wave of leather in a less socially repressive and far more active and technologically connected culture

Gor = a specific form of authority dynamic inspired from the set of novels based on gender stereotypes and causes extreme divisiveness in general heterosexual kink culture

Kinkster = someone generally into a type or set of activities defined as "kinky" or alternative pleasure


Hello LuckyAlbatross. I agree almost totally.

On your comment that discipline is becoming the forgotten D? I find you very perspicacious...

A lot of BDSM aficionados have added "DS" in the "popular" culture... before, no BDSM self respecting kinkster would deem it part of the lifestyle. I agree it is only the four you mentioned. I and many others would not include religious based DS (vanilla traditional marriage culture) for example, but I have seen internet sites that do.

As for your other definitions? again I more or less agree with you. At least you don't say old leather was "male and gay" as if it excluded "totally" women and straights. Far from it. There was a subculture with very differing flavors throughout US cities and other countries.

Though we have some contemporary written history, no "history" of a subculture is quite accurate (remember beatniks?, existentialists? or something different than the European counterpart?). Popular history has a tendency to be self centred and sometimes self serving.

What I know came from the emerging clubs (apparently some more gay, some less gay) but no one can be "exactly" sure of everything that came before when it was all underground (mostly illegal) activity. I have very old French and German daguerrotypes (taken in SM private clubs) that could be published in BDSM magazines. These people did not know at the end of the 19th century that they were into BDSM. Those old pictures show unbounded men's and women's scars and welts (sadists wanking material?). Not warm up pictures, I assure you.

Newleather?...Can I risk adding the commercial and marketing aspects to your description? No? Ok, I won't.

Gor. Totally agree. I would add "formalism" kink as a descriptive.

Kinkster? Totally agree. I would say "fun guy o gal". RL

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: 5 terms - 1/21/2008 12:27:46 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthsideBill

What do the 5 following terms mean to you...BDSM, Old Leather, New Leather, Gor and Kinkster.



BDSM - bondage, discipline, sadomasochism

Old Leather - Het baby boomers who stylized after the gay leather crowd

New Leather - Next Gen & high tech

Gor - philosophy based, gender ruled collective with their own set of bibles

Kinksters - people who engage in alternative sexual or sadomasochistic activities

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: 5 terms - 1/21/2008 2:12:00 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		BDSM:  A generalised term to cover all lifestylers.  D/s covers my interests = control.
 
Old Leather:  The old wrinkled witch down the road (when we were kids) who wouldn't give our soccer ball back when it went over her fence.
 
New Leather:  New toys.
 
Gor:  Cult.
 
Kinkster:  Someone more interested in spicing up their sex life than actually living within a control dynamic.
 
Focus.

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RE: 5 terms - 1/21/2008 2:53:07 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthsideBill

We had our munch tonight and the group discussion question was interesting so I thought I would post it here and see what people thought. The question was: What do the 5 following terms mean to you...BDSM, Old Leather, New Leather, Gor and Kinkster.

There were some very interesting and emotional answers around the room and it got me to thinking and wondering what others here might have to say. So answer if you will

 BDSM, Bondage Discipline Sadism Masochism Old Leather, IMO no longer exists. It was used for a stylized group of people that has pretty much passed on. New Leather, this one made me grin, I thought of 'Richhhhh Corinthian Leather' but would really take it to mean those today that emulate the Old Leather style that has phased out with time. Kinkster, Someone into kinky sex. Swinging or kinky sex play but no power exchange whatsoever. Please keep in mind these are only my reactions to the words and probably wrong. Maybe right.

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RE: 5 terms - 1/21/2008 3:03:19 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		BDSM - acronym of activities - Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism.  
 
Old Leather - Gay community suffering an influx of hetro
 
New Leather -  As above, just the modern equiv.  Bit of Next Gen.  Bit of all 'fashion' fet.
 
Gor -  High maintainance, high protocol.
 
Kinksters - anyone involved with something other than missionary sex.
 
the.dark.

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RE: 5 terms - 1/21/2008 3:28:36 AM   
ToTheExtreme


Posts: 6
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline 		The leather culture denotes practices and styles of dress organized around sexual activities and eroticism ("kink"). Wearing leather garments is one way that participants in this culture self-consciously distinguish themselves from mainstream sexual cultures. Leather culture is most visible in gay communities and most often associated with gay men ("leathermen"), but it is also reflected in various ways in the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and straight worlds. Many people associate leather culture with BDSM (Bondage/Discipline, Dominance/Submission, Sado/Masochism, also called "SM") practice. But for others, wearing black leather clothing is an erotic fashion that expresses heightened masculinity or the appropriation of sexual power; love of motorcycles and independence; and engagement in sexual kink or leather fetishism.

New Guard leather culture appeared in the 1990s, as a reaction to the restrictions of Old Guard style. New Guard, or new leather, embraced switching and a greater variety of approaches to eroticism, one of which was pansexuality. An increasing number of pansexual clubs evolved as well.

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RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 9:28:17 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra
On your comment that discipline is becoming the forgotten D? I find you very perspicacious...

A lot of BDSM aficionados have added "DS" in the "popular" culture... before, no BDSM self respecting kinkster would deem it part of the lifestyle. I agree it is only the four you mentioned. I and many others would not include religious based DS (vanilla traditional marriage culture) for example, but I have seen internet sites that do.

This part of your response, which i agree with, is what i want to address, because this is something that i have been thinking about.  Ds is something that i never considered to be a part of B&D/SM and wondered why some people were inserting it, as though it were.  In fact, it took me by surprise and puzzled me, when i started seeing Ds being thrown into the mix, as a part of BD/SM, by some people.   
 
Then, the more i read the views of these people, it started to occur to me that the addition of and often the emphasis on Ds, within BD/SM makes it appealing to a broader group, (as in the H.O.H., T.I.H., D.D., and C.D.D. folks), outside of the B&D/SM people. 
 
Perhaps adding Ds to BD/SM makes it appear to be a 'kinder-gentler' kinky lifestyle to some people than it would otherwise seem . 
 
This is just something that i have thought about and wanted to add it to the discussion.
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 9:45:40 PM   
AbsitInvidia


Posts: 164
Joined: 11/23/2007
Status: offline 		Actually I find it amazing how dismissive most of the people here are of Gor, while demonstrating a fairly lacking understanding of both the tenents and the practitioners.

Gor - a system of beliefs and philos that extends from the twin concepts of freedom and personal responsibility, and he roles of men and women in such a society. Gor is often but not essentially associated with slavery as property, however it is absolutely possible and usually the most common way, to be Gorean without owning a slave at all.

< Message edited by AbsitInvidia -- 1/24/2008 9:50:06 PM >

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What most people call rights are merely social norms, they are expectations - but expectations can and will be violated on a daily basis. On her knees. In the mud. Hard, and savagely. Expectations likes it like that.

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RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 9:53:14 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthsideBill

We had our munch tonight and the group discussion question was interesting so I thought I would post it here and see what people thought. The question was: What do the 5 following terms mean to you...BDSM, Old Leather, New Leather, Gor and Kinkster.

There were some very interesting and emotional answers around the room and it got me to thinking and wondering what others here might have to say. So answer if you will


To be honest, they mean nothing to me. NOw, if you had instead asked what do I think of the people within each of those...my answer would have been different.

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RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 10:26:24 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthsideBill

We had our munch tonight and the group discussion question was interesting so I thought I would post it here and see what people thought. The question was: What do the 5 following terms mean to you...BDSM, Old Leather, New Leather, Gor and Kinkster.

There were some very interesting and emotional answers around the room and it got me to thinking and wondering what others here might have to say. So answer if you will




The four-letter acronym is the only item that earns somewhat of a nod from me; the others are fraught with campy, irritating nonsense.

(in reply to NorthsideBill)
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RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 10:55:53 PM   
Arrrchibald


Posts: 350
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline 		Just the first things that popped into my head:

BDSM - Playful people

Old Leather - Old people

New Leather - Snooty people

Gor - Boring people

Kinkster - Trendy people


< Message edited by Arrrchibald -- 1/24/2008 10:56:56 PM >

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RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 11:09:00 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AbsitInvidia

Actually I find it amazing how dismissive most of the people here are of Gor, while demonstrating a fairly lacking understanding of both the tenents and the practitioners.


Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in to it, Soshi. Some people think male slaves suck, some people think republicans suck and some people think Goreans suck. Someone, somewhere is going to think something you do sucks. You can't please everyone. ::shrugs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to AbsitInvidia)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: 5 terms - 1/24/2008 11:32:26 PM   
razon


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline 		BDSM: bondage - domination - s&m --> good fun times

Old Leather: the older generation of active BDSMers

New Leather: this new generation of active BDSMers

Gor: Gorean lifestyle - mike huckabee

Kinkster: someone who has kinky sex more often than not

thats my take on it...

(in reply to NorthsideBill)
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