Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 6:46:50 AM)

"If Iran shows up with a nuclear weapon at some point in time, the world is going to say, what happened to them in 2007? How come they couldn't see the impending danger? What caused them not to understand that a country that once had a weapons program could reconstitute the weapons program? How come they couldn't see that the important first step in developing a weapon is the capacity to be able to enrich uranium? How come they didn't know that with that capacity, that knowledge could be passed on to a covert program? What blinded them to the realities of the world? "

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120103739264407641.html?mod=googlenews_wsj



kittinSol -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 6:50:41 AM)

Do you think Iran shouldn't have a nuclear arsenal?

(Personally, I believe in decommissioning ALL nuclear weapons EVERYWHERE, but I'm a hopeless idealist. In the meantime, I don't see why Iran shouldn't have the capability to defend itself, because god knows that it's under threat.)



mnottertail -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 6:54:31 AM)

There were stories of long ago that Iran was the hegemon of the middle east.

If the middle east should not be controlled and for the middle east, who should it be for?

Ron



kittinSol -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 6:59:41 AM)

I didn't call my cat Cyrus for nothing, Ron [:D] .



meatcleaver -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 7:04:55 AM)

Forgive me but I thought Iran was in the middle east?

If the US has the right to run the middle east and it is half the world away, Iran has every right to aspire running its own back yard.

I don't think Iran has the right to tell other countries what to do but neither has the US and it does it constantly so fair game to Iran.



LadyEllen -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 7:20:50 AM)

I've said it before and I'll say it again - we're due the rebirth of a Persian Empire from the Ganges to the Med and from the Caucases to the Red Sea in the near future - and then we're really up the Suez without a paddle.

E



kittinSol -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 8:27:43 AM)

The West has a sweet knack at making enemies. Perhaps if America and its mignons had stopped bullying everyone in the playground that was smaller than them, we wouldn't be where we are?



FirmhandKY -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 11:05:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I've said it before and I'll say it again - we're due the rebirth of a Persian Empire from the Ganges to the Med and from the Caucases to the Red Sea in the near future - and then we're really up the Suez without a paddle.

E


Interesting though Lady E.

I think I agree that Persia/Iran has expansionist desires. But I'm a little more sanguine about the possibilities of it achieving them.

I think the most likely result of Iran's continued attempts to gain hegemony in the area is a glass parking lot.

Firm



luckydog1 -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 11:38:01 AM)

We are  begining (or will soon begin ) the transition from oil.  Iran's power will dry up real fast when thier oil becomes worth not very much.  The most likley mid term prospect for the big sandbox (with hundreds of millions of people with no clean water to drink) Iran wants hegemony over, will be that whomever China wants to run it will.  I kind of doubt they want Islamic radicals in chrage of the place.  The idea of a reborn Persian empire is just fantasy.  They were an empire when the mid east desert was incredibly productive grass/farm land.   Side note, there is a real solid example of the effects of Global Climate Change on Geo Politics.

Maybe after the oil cash runs out, a Sufi inspiried Islam will begin to spread, and actually make the "Reformation" happen over there.



domiguy -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 11:43:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

"If Iran shows up with a nuclear weapon at some point in time, the world is going to say, what happened to them in 2007? How come they couldn't see the impending danger? What caused them not to understand that a country that once had a weapons program could reconstitute the weapons program? How come they couldn't see that the important first step in developing a weapon is the capacity to be able to enrich uranium? How come they didn't know that with that capacity, that knowledge could be passed on to a covert program? What blinded them to the realities of the world? "

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120103739264407641.html?mod=googlenews_wsj



Remember ...The Wall Street Journal = Murdoch. His publications are nothing more than an outlet to spew his views. There is no concept of reality or truth when it comes to the reporting of these stories. Why bother reading them?



Owner59 -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 11:56:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

We are  begining (or will soon begin ) the transition from oil.  Iran's power will dry up real fast when thier oil becomes worth not very much.  The most likley mid term prospect for the big sandbox (with hundreds of millions of people with no clean water to drink) Iran wants hegemony over, will be that whomever China wants to run it will.  I kind of doubt they want Islamic radicals in chrage of the place.  The idea of a reborn Persian empire is just fantasy.  They were an empire when the mid east desert was incredibly productive grass/farm land.   Side note, there is a real solid example of the effects of Global Climate Change on Geo Politics.

Maybe after the oil cash runs out, a Sufi inspiried Islam will begin to spread, and actually make the "Reformation" happen over there.


We are  begining (or will soon begin ) the transition from oil.  Iran's power will dry up real fast when thier oil becomes worth not very much.

 
Yeah,like in a hundred years,lol,and not if neo-cons have anything to say about it.They deny that there is even an oil shortage,let alone global warming,high oil prices,etc..

But thanx to those "helpful" neo-cons,we made Iran a top dog in the region and fucked our interests there,for decades to come.

100 dollar a barrel oil,is a direct result of Bush policy,so is Sharia law in Iraq and the Sunni/Shia civil war.

Years ago,just after that phony election in Iraq,Sharia law was declared (w/ not a peep out`a republicans over this).I read about it at a lunch counter,w/ one of my neo-con ,bush loving friends.When I mentioned this,he responded with,"what`s Sharia law?"

We are so fucked.



luckydog1 -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:04:18 PM)

So owner thinks Iraq is run under Sharia law, just out in looney land..........We are indeed so fucked



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:35:21 PM)

No I do not believe they should have nuclear weapons.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Do you think Iran shouldn't have a nuclear arsenal?

(Personally, I believe in decommissioning ALL nuclear weapons EVERYWHERE, but I'm a hopeless idealist. In the meantime, I don't see why Iran shouldn't have the capability to defend itself, because god knows that it's under threat.)



kittinSol -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:44:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

No I do not believe they should have nuclear weapons.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Do you think Iran shouldn't have a nuclear arsenal?




Neither should you.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:48:04 PM)

Don't disagree with no one should have nuclear weapons, but the fact is they exist.

So should everyone be allowed to carry fully automcatic weapons in public?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

No I do not believe they should have nuclear weapons.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Do you think Iran shouldn't have a nuclear arsenal?




Neither should you.



brainiacsub -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:48:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I think I agree that Persia/Iran has expansionist desires. But I'm a little more sanguine about the possibilities of it achieving them.

I think the most likely result of Iran's continued attempts to gain hegemony in the area is a glass parking lot.

Firm


I'm with you on this one.

This thread I know is going to test the very limits of my ability to remain polite and considerate in the face of such appalling ignorance. Am I the only one who sees the inherent dangers in allowing a country ruled by a theocracy whose only ideolgy is death to the infidels to have nuclear weapons?

Fucking hell. I never feel less submissive than when discussing Middle Eastern politics, global warming, or hermeneutics. It just makes me want to beat the hell out of someone.



mnottertail -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:50:18 PM)

I don't know that it is appalling ignorance on anyone elses part.

Ron



kittinSol -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:56:55 PM)

Only a few weeks ago, Bush came just short of declaring war on Iran. Let's not forget his rhetoric about Iran being a 'rogue state'. He lied about weapons of mass destruction in order to invade Iraq in 2003; he's trying to pull the same trick over Iran today.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/04/bush.iran/index.html

According to recent figures, Iran is the fourth producer and exporter of crude oil.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/topworldtables1_2.htm

Understandably, Iran is feeling rather threatened by Uncle Sam's record of invading under false pretenses in order to steal another country's natural resource. Don't you think it's rather normal Iran should wish to protect itself against America's aggressive foreign policy???



brainiacsub -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 12:58:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I don't know that it is appalling ignorance on anyone elses part.

Ron

Please, tell me what it is then. I really want to understand and be tolerant. And don't say differences of opinion. It's not like we are discussing the merits of more vs. less lube.



kittinSol -> RE: Iran evidently aspires to becoming the hegemon of the Middle East (1/23/2008 1:03:06 PM)

Read up on the subject, and avoid knee-jerk reactions?



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