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Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:39:51 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
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I need some help on how to handle a situation. I live in a rural area on a private dirt road which means we pay for the road to be plowed ourselves. The guy that does the plowing lives somewhere on the road so it gets done in a timely fashion. However... I just receive a bill for $175.00 for him plowing my driveway. I never asked him to plow my driveway, we never ever discussed it nor any sort of monies. Stupidly I thought he did it out of kindness and neighborliness because I'm disabled and living alone. Three of the times he plowed there was less than 5" of snow and he knows I drive an SUV which means I wouldn't have a problem with that small amount. I pay my share of road maintainence every 6 months, never having missed in 11 years and I feel a bit shafted over this. He knows too that I'm not working because the last plow he did I ran out and handed him a twenty. I thanked him for the help and said that was all I could afford because I was unemployed. That was about 3 weeks ago and he never mentioned that he was charging me. How do I handle this please? I have difficulties balancing not wanting to make any waves and standing up for myself. Oddly I have no difficulties standing up for someone else lol. Thanks.

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:47:09 AM

Jeffff

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I would politely tell him that you don't have the money budgeted for the extra cost, and that you had no idea there was going to be a charge. You might also tell him that in the future you will call him if you need the driveway plowed and pay him at that time

Jeff

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 2

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:48:21 AM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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You did not contract for the service therefore you don't owe for it. However, I would say it as politely as possible as it seems you do need the other services he provides...wait...it's camille...what am I saying?

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:48:32 AM

LaTigresse

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I would arrange a sit down and approach it in a very non confrontational way at first. Ask him if he thought there was some sort of agreement that prompted him to act. Explain to him that, while you really appreciated his efforts you would not have hired him to do it. Quite simply because you cannot afford to. See what his attitude his after taking that approach. It may simply be some sort of misunderstanding.

If he gets demanding then you will have to shift up to a more aggresive stance. Stay calm however and just explain that, while grateful that he did, you did not ask him to do it. You simply thought he was being kind and neighbourly.

If he still demands payment you can go one of several routes. Perhaps there is a service you can do for him in kind.......a sort of barter. Or, a payment plan with the understanding that you will never receive another bill and there will be no more plowing.

The key is to try and stay calm and reason with the guy in a fair manner. If all else fails........you can shoot him and let the coyotes eat him.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/24/2008 7:45:22 AM >

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:49:18 AM

FirmhandKY

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As far as I can see, you have no legal, nor moral obligation to pay him anything.

As far as how to handle it, it depends on your relationship, but I'd likely send him a polite note with the invoice he sent you, saying something like:

"I'm not sure when I authorized this work. Could you please clarify why you are sending me a bill?"

Firm

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:50:08 AM

jasmine2008

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yes you do not want to case any waves i agree

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:54:27 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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Maybe that it is that by being given a gift of money might have made him think to charge for his services and there think what it does cost him other than his time, machinery and goodwill.

Money and the prospect of it has a nasty habit of changing people.

If the sum of $175 is what he is charging an individual for their contribution to his efforts, that multiplyed by how many live on your road, does that not make the operation a little bit expensive?

Personally, in your position, if I were disabled and in possesion of a SUV which you stated have no problems negotiating the road, I would refuse to make the payment, or let it be known that the service if it is to be paid for, you will exercise your right to seek a cheaper operator.

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Post #: 7

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 6:56:12 AM

mnottertail

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I agree with the have a sit down.

If he gets stiff, you can point out to him that he can take you to small claims court, for the money.

having went to court over something like this..............(garbage hauling)

You then tell the judge that you are quite upset that he has removed snow from your yard without your permission, and it is causing you unbearable distress, since you had plans for that exact snow, and would only be remedied either:

A) bring back the exact snow that was taken and put it back exactly the way it was (and you know exactly what snow that is, so don't bring back any foreign snow, to pollute your yard)
B) or 1750 dollars (this will take care of the next 10 years plowing for you)

Um........plows without asking or making agreement and then two-guns you in the ribs for money??????

I think he might be looking to put you in a situation where he has to take it out in trade...............I am betting you are heading that way in your discussions.

Ron

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 7:00:01 AM

samboct

Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline

HiCamille

I agree with Firm on this one. Businesses should not send out invoices hoping they should be paid- there should be a solid understanding before beginning the work. Nor should an invoice ever be a surprise.

With that being said- be careful about what the folks who negotiated with this guy to plow the road came up with. There may have been a vote where they said - everybody here agrees that we'll pay you $xx for plowing every time it snows- it's a package deal. Your beef may be with the people who negotiated with this guy- not the guy himself who may think that he's done everything correctly. So call your neighbors too and find out what's going on. Asking questions should not be seen as confrontational- if it is- then somebody'd trying to pull a fast one.

Sam

(in reply to jasmine2008)

Post #: 9

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 7:01:10 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

--ok- if you see him do it when snow is minor-

------> yell- make a time out signal w your hands and nod no.

if he sends you a bill- put it back in envelop crossed out w pen and mail it back.

if you would talk to him- tell him if you want the service you will PHONE HIM.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 10

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 7:22:02 AM

bignipples2share

Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
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I agree with LaTigresse on this one..though she had me laughing hard at the end there.

Another way would be to take the bill to him and say he must have made on error and put your name on the bill as you only agreed to pay for the main street to be plowed, not your driveway, as anything else you wouldn't have agreed on, because you couldn't afford it. See what his reaction is.

It may, in fact, be a simple error on his part.

~Big

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 11

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 8:14:58 AM

mhawk

Posts: 509
Joined: 11/5/2007
From: Washington
Status: offline

well the way i was raised and still beleive to this day,the "neighborly" thing to do,is to offer to do something like that out of kindness.meaning not to charge someone for something done out of kindness. as an example,when it snows here,i go out front and shovel and de ice the front porch and sidewalk,out of a neccssity to my Lord and Lady so they get in safely but also as a courtesy to our neighbor and their daughter.neighborss helping neighbors and not charging.

as far as this persons charging you that kind of money,sounds like you gave him the $20 as a thank you gift nothing more nothing less.it is very presumptuous on his part to do it again and charge that kind of ammont.

i agree with others here,contact him and ask if there was an agreement for this to be done before giving him any kind of money,if there was not a contract i believe he had no right assuming and then charging you. if need be as someone else suggested take it to small claims court if you have to.

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 12

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 8:30:21 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Here's how I'd do it;

Consider, honestly, what it would have been worth to you to have the drive plowed (maybe, 50$?). Enclose a check for that amount, and a polite note thanking him for taking the time to plow your driveway, but that you won't be requiring his plowing services in the future, and that in light of the fact that you didn't actually contract his service, you don't feel an obligation to pay the sum he's requested. If you word it in a friendly tone, you might avoid future confrontation.

Regards,

Stephan

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 9:06:05 AM

philosophy

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Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

........find out if any of your neighbours have also recieved such a bill. You may not be the only one in this boat......

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 14

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 9:44:48 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

Thanks everyone, all of you have given me a similiar path with slightly different ways to take it. Which is just what I was looking for. Yes the 20 was a thankyou/tip towards him and nothing more.I will combine the advice given (with the exception of foreign snow ya weirdo Ron lol) and pay some but not all with an explanation of it not being contracted service. I absolutely hate confrontation, I crumple like a wet Kleenex. Argh. And I worry, I always worry that perhaps 'they' are correct and the error is in my perception of things. So the help and advice all you of offered here was just what I needed. Thanks, all of you.

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Post #: 15

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 9:57:52 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Just be aware that any payment may be used in small claims court as agreeing you owed the total bill. At least according to Judge Judy...lol. Even if marked as paid in full... if he does not cash it… he can use it as proof you had contracted his services.

I would give him a call...being very careful to state you do not owe the bill... just incase it is recorded. If you do decide to pay anything only do so in person and after you receive a note stating you are paid in full... Otherwise I would make no payment.

Butch

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 16

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 10:08:00 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

take the bill to him... throw up the bill in the air.... and shoot it with a shot gun.

then see if he charges you again!

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RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 10:45:01 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I have a neighbor the runs the snowblower on my one walk. He never sent a bill. I should thank him.

Technically teh OP doesnt owe any money. If the deed on propery denoted that he is responsible for its upkeep then "maybe" . if i picked up a muffler that fell on your roadway/driveway and sent you a bill- yould tell me to get lost.

you did not order such service.

there is a way to go into the phone block and get numbers to said adress. a message on a machine could suffice- soemthing to the effect 'its all i can do to put food and heat..., taxes-ins- house note.

hmmm. or state it this way- "I will phone you when I wish to order plowing service. I will tell you what I am willing to pay per the storm, per the peice, per the snowfall." :If you mistakenly thought I hired you for billing- I am sorry you misunderstood"

Or- hey knucklehead. stop sending me these bills for something i didnt order.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

Post #: 18

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 10:50:04 AM

ghitaPVH

Posts: 1363
Joined: 11/14/2007
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I like the way you thing, faery....but somehow I doubt camille will go for it....lol...

make sure you make it very clear to him that you did not request his services, and never agreed to pay him for anything other than the main road, which you have already done. I agree with others that you might want to talk to your other neighbors and see if they are in the same situation.

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Post #: 19

RE: Neighborly Advice, Please - 1/24/2008 1:38:20 PM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Thanks everyone, all of you have given me a similiar path with slightly different ways to take it. Which is just what I was looking for. Yes the 20 was a thankyou/tip towards him and nothing more.I will combine the advice given (with the exception of foreign snow ya weirdo Ron lol) and pay some but not all with an explanation of it not being contracted service. I absolutely hate confrontation, I crumple like a wet Kleenex. Argh. And I worry, I always worry that perhaps 'they' are correct and the error is in my perception of things. So the help and advice all you of offered here was just what I needed. Thanks, all of you.

I understand your hesitancy, strained relationships with neighbors are a nightmare. For that reason, I wouldn't talk to the other neighbors; they may tell him that you're talking about him behind his back. Are you okay with talking face-to-face to him? If not, a carefully worded note should be okay, and it will also leave a paper trail.

"Hey [neighbor]; I received your bill for $175.00, was that for the street plowing? Sorry, don't mean to seem dim, but I thought that came out of the road maintenance fee? Let me know if this was in error or was to be addressed to someone else. Thank you!"

In this way he has to admit that he's charging you--make him say it if he's gonna ask you for money. So if he then comes back and says this is for the times I plowed your drive, let him know that you didn't ask for it:

"Oh god, I'm sorry, I would never have had you do that! I wish you had asked me and let me know what the charge would be ahead of time. As you may be aware, I'm not working right now due to some health issues, so I'm not sure how to proceed. I welcome your thoughts, though! Best regards..."

If there is a beating heart in his chest he should then let it go! If so, I'd make him some brownies or a crock pot of something or whatever, just to smooth the last of any rough edges.

If he doesn't let it go:

"Neighbor, we've got to work this together because to me more important than money or anything else is living side by side in harmony and good feelings toward each other. What do you think we should do, because I didn't (wouldn't, couldn't) request the plowing, but I understand you had an expense in doing it for me. Do you know how much that expense was? Maybe we could try things from that angle."

Just some ideas, Sweet. Wish you well!

(let us know, if you feel like it)

< Message edited by subtee -- 1/24/2008 1:39:39 PM >

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