BDSM Bookclub...sorta

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homedespot -> BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 11:06:38 AM)
I do a lot of reading on D/s, M/s, BDSM whatever and a lot of discussing of it too. Perhaps this has been tried before but I'm doing it anyway. I thought it would be fun to post a link to an article that I've read that intrigued Me in some way and open it up for discussion. If it works I will post a new one every Friday. I'm picking the article because I think it is well written and that it has a lot of points to agree or disagree with not because it promotes a particular point of view. If you wanna read the article and post an opinion on it great. If not. Okay! Take care, J. First Article: Romance vs. Training http://www.the-estate.com/items/date/2005/06/28/the-east-wing-perspective-on-training-vs-romance/

xxblushesxx -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 11:24:51 AM)
Anything from steel door is great. ~Christina

Justme696 -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 11:50:35 AM)
http://www.amazon.com/Great-BDSM-Books/lm/3GWYY4C9N3M8M lol didn't expect amazon to do this

BlackPhx -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 12:15:02 PM)
http://www.greenerypress.com/ also has some good books for those just getting started and for some of us old hands as well. poenkitten

OmegaG -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 12:45:42 PM)
I really like this idea of discussing a specific article or book. of course now I have to go read it.....

SimplyMichael -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 1:08:54 PM)
Wow, I just lost a lot of respect for the Eulenspiegel society if the author is on their board! What a bunch of shallow insipid nonsense! Of course, I think the concept of having someone else train someone to serve me is idiotic at best so there is my bias. quote: At least as often the problem lies with the submissive in question. If every training exercise is met with a bad attitude, a plea to put it off till later, or a complaint about the task, why then would the dominant bother? If the merest discomfort, that is not immediately rewarded with some kinky play, leads to a surly tone and a guilt trip from the submissive in question, where then is the desire for training? The "desire for training" needs to be instilled by the dominant and if he/she can't do that, it isn't the submissive who needs training! quote: An example: many submissives have fantasies of sleeping at the foot of their dominant’s bed. They crave the feeling of submission and of ownership. Yet, how many of those who desire it routinely do it? How many of those who yearn to sleep on the floor have done so enough that they are happy and comfortable there? Very very few. After a few nights, when the back pains hit (until their body adjusts) many of these submissives will gladly give up the ritual, and their dominants will allow it. "honey, I don't like doing what you want" says the untrained submissive, "okay dokey" says the stern dominant? REALLY? Where do they get this crap? Assuming this is how things work, it is again the dominant who needs training not the submissive! Secondly, I for one, have a woman who WOULD sleep on the floor if I asked but it is ME who would whine about sleeping alone (maybe that means I need two so I can have one on the floor AND not sleep alone?) but this passage to me shows a rather shallow grasp of what motivates both submissives and dominants. There are people on CM who I DON'T respect who post better stuff than this!

thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 1:52:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Wow, I just lost a lot of respect for the Eulenspiegel society if the author is on their board! What a bunch of shallow insipid nonsense! Of course, I think the concept of having someone else train someone to serve me is idiotic at best so there is my bias. Well, unless they've changed, the people on the board are elected by the membership. I recall that at least one or two people often were chosen not for skill or knowledge but for popularity.

Bound2One -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 3:53:22 PM)
Thank you for sharing, homedespot. I think it's a great idea to post an essay for discussion. I do not understand the idea of a 'trainer'. I wish to be trained by my Dominant, and I wish to please him alone .. not someone to whom I have no connection. A few things stood out to me. <A trainer is not, nor should be, a substitute for strength or willpower. The trainer is an objective mirror, and the voice that guides the submissive on the path.> I find strength in my Master. It's not a substitute for my strength, but without his, I am nothing. I couldn't be trained by someone to whom I wasn't emotionally connected. What's the point? <Finding people who will do that, who will do it because they genuinely like to teach, who like to make people better than they were before by their common standard, is a very rare thing.> I disagree that the ability to train is rare in the world. Isn't that what being a Dominant is all about? Wanting to mold the submissive/slave to his/her ideal? This all makes me think of the porn websites online like 'training of O' which are a fantasy - not real world. It's kinda icky to me - training without love or at least affection or involvement between the parties? Not for me. Just my 2 cents...

sextoygirlNY -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 6:48:50 PM)
greetings, I am a member of TES the oldest established lifestyle community in the US, yes they have had ups and downs, and like with any organization there will be those who are great leaders and those who are just winning by popularity. (just look at our presidents...is it necessarily skills and knowledge that won the vote?) Anyway, The estate is composed of three key individuals Flagg, Sir C, and Soulhuntre, the latter who happened to write that article for the estate. There rules are strict, harsh and not the norm. All three of them, when they come into the room there is a command presense unlike any i have ever seen. Sir C, she will scare the hell out of you if you get on her bad side, Soulhuntre can easily take control of a room just walking in, and Flagg has given numerous workshops and talks that had the audience listening. Do some disagree with their ideals..of course, but the beauty of it is they have the write to say what they want to say, and live the way they want too... I have so much respect for all three of them, even if i am not on the same page as them..... wishes you well, melanie

homedespot -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 6:52:34 PM)
quote: "honey, I don't like doing what you want" says the untrained submissive, "okay dokey" says the stern dominant? REALLY? Where do they get this crap? Assuming this is how things work, it is again the dominant who needs training not the submissive! Secondly, I for one, have a woman who WOULD sleep on the floor if I asked but it is ME who would whine about sleeping alone (maybe that means I need two so I can have one on the floor AND not sleep alone?) but this passage to me shows a rather shallow grasp of what motivates both submissives and dominants. There are people on CM who I DON'T respect who post better stuff than this! No offense but I think you misread the article. I believe they are saying exactly what you are. That the Dominant that does this isn't truly dominant and needs training or at least change of some kind. I also think you are generalizing from the specific. I think the point about sleeping on the floor is that if the Dominant wants it then if they give in at the first sign of whining they need help. I don't think the point was that all submissives should sleep on the floor, but rather that an order given must be enforced. J.

spanklette -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/25/2008 8:13:53 PM)
With my own background, I can see where the author is coming from. It's sort of akin to a student doing the best that they possibly can on a paper. The teacher grades the paper, notes the effort, but still gives an average grade. The student's proud mama insists that the grade should have been an 'A'. In the article the "trainer" has a lack of romantic attachment, and while they would like to see the trainee succeed...sometimes your best just isn't good enough. A romantic D/s relationship thrives on the notion of success. "There is no try, only do." The Dominant partner is emotionally invested in the submissive being fulfilled and making the grade. And example: My former Master would have "Cigar Parties". Each of the submissives invited were trained in the same manner for the same duties as all of the others. We were expected to excel at everything from serving brandy to being on hand for any toilet duties (as in helping the Gentlemen with their toiletries). Any one of us was trained to perform each function in the same manner. There was no romance...only pomp and circumstance. I completely enjoyed myself, but there was no romantic attachment to any of the Gentlemen at the parties. I think the article is actually on point. Even though I am the submissive partner in a romantic D/s relationship, I think I am harder to train because my Daddy only wants to see the things that I've done right instead of nit-picking about things done wrong. He doesn't nit-pick and I perform the duties that He asks of me to the best of my abilities and we are very happy. It's just a completely different situation with a completely different perspective. This is a personals web site, so I think that can color the responses to someone training a submissive in a general sense rather than for their own personal use. Mostly, I just think that there is a time and place for everything and I can see the author's point of view.

Twice -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/26/2008 2:27:52 AM)
I just bought a book called The Nymphos of Rocky Flats....

thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM Bookclub...sorta (1/26/2008 7:36:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sextoygirlNY greetings, I am a member of TES the oldest established lifestyle community in the US, yes they have had ups and downs, and like with any organization there will be those who are great leaders and those who are just winning by popularity. (just look at our presidents...is it necessarily skills and knowledge that won the vote?) Anyway, The estate is composed of three key individuals Flagg, Sir C, and Soulhuntre, the latter who happened to write that article for the estate. There rules are strict, harsh and not the norm. All three of them, when they come into the room there is a command presense unlike any i have ever seen. Sir C, she will scare the hell out of you if you get on her bad side, Soulhuntre can easily take control of a room just walking in, and Flagg has given numerous workshops and talks that had the audience listening. Do some disagree with their ideals..of course, but the beauty of it is they have the write to say what they want to say, and live the way they want too... I have so much respect for all three of them, even if i am not on the same page as them..... wishes you well, melanie I actually liked the way that TES elected it's board and the number of people it had on it who would do all that was necessary to run some a large group so smoothly. My point was that leadership in any group shouldn't not equal the expectation of some great prose or great philosophy or anything frankly outside of that group. A person should not judge an organization by a few members or leaders but by the overall way it functions and how long it survives and thrives.

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