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RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:03:26 AM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		Declawing a cat is animal cruelty.
If you are not prepared to deal with the issues that come with being responsible for a pet, like the scratching that can occure with cats, then simply don't have a pet. Mutilating an animal just for your convinience is disgusting.

Btw, in Germany declawing is outlawed and carries hefty fines.

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RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:08:28 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		My vet who is somewhat of a national expert would disagree with you.  I think I'll take his word on it and his word when he says you have two of the most spoiled, healthy, happy cats I've encountered...both partially declawed.  I guess they don't agree either

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:19:13 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		I'd love to see some of this 'national experts' work supporting the pro-declawing position.  If he is that weighty, a reference or two should be easy enough to supply

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:36:43 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		As usual you misquote in a transparent attempt to be superior Alumbrado.  Luckily, that approach stopped working with me when I was like eleven years old.  I have no idea whether my vet has published on the issue, if he did I'd be happy to share it with the other posters.  Nor do I ever have any intention of rising to the ridiculous bait of giving you any personal information or any information period. 

For the rest of you to clarify,  I can tell you that one of my partially declawed cats is 17 years old, and has had a major disease for the past five.  Although I was told he wouldn't live for more than a year when he was diagnosed by two vets, oddly he seems to have defied those odds and continues to frolic like the incredibly happy cat he always has been.  I believe diet, controlling his environment and care has had a much bigger impact on his life than any declawing.  It has been an expensive venture to provide him the diet and care necessary, however, I personally believe I took on that obligation when I took on the pet.  Sadly it is not the fatal disease but his age and arthritis that is starting to catch up with him.  Obviously if it had ever suggested to me that it was cruelty by anyone with the requisite knowlege, which was obviously not suggested, quite the opposite, I would not have done it.

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:43:11 AM   
venusinblu


Posts: 165
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline 		As far as children and cats go, if one teaches one's child to handle a cat with respect, a happy and well adjusted cat will not just lash out for no good reason. 

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:44:51 AM   
venusinblu


Posts: 165
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Declawing a cat is animal cruelty.
If you are not prepared to deal with the issues that come with being responsible for a pet, like the scratching that can occure with cats, then simply don't have a pet. Mutilating an animal just for your convinience is disgusting.

Btw, in Germany declawing is outlawed and carries hefty fines.


calamitysandra is my new hero! Well said ...


_____________________________

Louis: Do you think I would let them harm you?
Claudia: No you would not Louis. Danger holds you to me.
Louis: Love holds you to me.

~~~~~~

When the going gets tough, the tough get under the table . ... Edmund Blackadder

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:48:19 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Apologies for the clumsiness of this link, I do not know how to make those pretty one worded links:

http://cats.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=cats&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.declawing.org%2F

An even more interesting read, for those who advocate declawing, can be found by clicking on the penultimate link of the page.

As for your vet being an expert on declawing, he may be an expert in performing this surgery and teaching others how to perform it with equal skill, however, a skillful person does not necessarily equate to one with good ethics regarding animal welfare.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:52:16 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Sanda, I believe it is throughout Europe in general, along with the practice of docking dogs' tails, which is another abhorrent practice that was popular among 'caring' pet owners. Declawing has been banned from being performed on big cats (lions/tigers, etc...), why not domesticated cats in the US?

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
Btw, in Germany declawing is outlawed and carries hefty fines.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:53:44 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		First of all I will say this, ANYONE that supports altering an animal for asthetic reasons, aka tail or ear docking yet would argue that declawing is cat is wrong is a hypocrite of the highest order.

Secondly I intensely dislike any unnecessary forms of altering an animal other than spaying or neutering. In my opinion all animals that are not of the highest quality and used for breeding high quality animals for show or sale in a responsible manner, should be spayed or neutered. There are just too many unwanted animals.

Thirdly, all of that being said I have a cat that has had the claws removed on all 4 feet. I didn't particularly want to do it, and it was a decision that has never sat well on my shoulders. However, the situation was such that he either stayed outdoors and would have had a very short lifespan due to the many predators in our neighbourhood. He was a feral kitten that just decided to move up to the big house. He began sneaking indoors with the dogs. I had recently purchased a very very expensive set of leather livingroom furniture. I am not going to have my furniture damaged while I try to train a cat to keep its claws in while hopping around on it. So, when he was neutered he was also declawed.

After having him for several years as strictly an indoor cat the little brat started sneaking outside with the dogs just as he had when sneaking in. It is not an ideal situation, I would prefer to either not have had to have him declawed or keep him indoors. There have been no health issues, he defends himself very well with his teeth ( the dogs and I have the scars to prove it from play) and he stays close to the house. He does far too well at hunting, I've even seen him snag a bird out of the air. And lets face it, claws will not help him against one of the neighborhood coyotes or a large bird of prey anyway. I've seen the facts of that.

All in all, I am fully aware that his life may be shortened. However, living as he does, going in and out as he pleases, makes him a happier cat. And I believe that quality of life is important to animals as well has humans.

edited to add.....

Before anyone dares to attack my choice on declawing......consider the other two options I had and tell me which of those I should have done

Left him outside with his parents and siblings, the feral cats down in the hayshed, that all disappeared due to either disease or predators, or taken him to the local shelter to hang out with the 50 or so other cats hoping for adoption or euthanasia. Because lord knows I would have never found another home for him. There is no shortage of kittens needing homes around here.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/27/2008 7:00:36 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 6:55:52 AM   
bbwbutterfly


Posts: 30
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline 		I had my first cat declawed, just the front paws and I regret that decision. The vet was a wonderful vet but after the surgery my cat ended up having so many problems. She lost two of her digits because of the blood not wanting to flow correctly, ended up having to be on IV fluids and staying at the animal hospital for well over a month. Once she was over that she was fine, healthy and happy but I swore I would never do it again to another cat. The cat I have now is in an indoor cat and has all his claws. I have him a scratching post and he doesn't even try to scratch on my furniture. Occassionally I am his scratching post when he wants to play but I will live with a few scratches.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:04:33 AM   
lauren0221


Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline 		FR

One of my kitties had to have surgery twice. It was painful and awful, and he didn't understand why or what had happened. I would never, ever voluntarily contribute to any living creature having surgery for my convenience. Just, no.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:13:55 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		An old friend of mine in Texas had her kitty declawed after giving it much thought and following her peers (practically every cat owner she knew had had their cats declawed, so it was the 'done thing'), taking advice from vets, etc.. she proceeded with the surgery and it seemed the cat was healing well, then developed ulceration on several of his digits, ulcers that just would not heal. The cat was eventually put to sleep, on the recommendation of the vet.

Both my cats are Maine Coons, b/c they contracted cat flu from their mother prior to being born they're stunted in growth. The female is rather indifferent to everyone, however, the male is a whore for attention and loves being groomed. We have expensive italian leather furniture, as well as antique wooden tables/chests but they've never shown the slightest inclination to scratch them. If they did, it's tough luck for my furniture, my pets' welfare come first. They've now taken an interest in the Wii's receiver which is situated on top of the tv... they seem to think it's a new cats' toy and my partner grimaces each time they hook it up and toss it around (much to my amusement!).

I really don't blame people that get their cats declawed on the recommendations of their vet as they are led to believe it is an easy procedure, often a necessary one, and they really aren't aware of what is involved. But there are no excuses for those that are fully aware and do it just as an act of convenience. Another friend of mine in the US makes no excuses about having had their cats declawed, we have heated debates on it, her stance never changes and she's entitled, until the laws state otherwise, to do as she wishes with her pets. We simply agree to disagree.
quote:

I had my first cat declawed, just the front paws and I regret that decision. The vet was a wonderful vet but after the surgery my cat ended up having so many problems. She lost two of her digits because of the blood not wanting to flow correctly, ended up having to be on IV fluids and staying at the animal hospital for well over a month. Once she was over that she was fine, healthy and happy but I swore I would never do it again to another cat. The cat I have now is in an indoor cat and has all his claws. I have him a scratching post and he doesn't even try to scratch on my furniture. Occassionally I am his scratching post when he wants to play but I will live with a few scratches.


< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 1/27/2008 7:16:29 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:13:59 AM   
MistressCamille


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

I vote for not de-clawing.  Bad enough that spaying and neutering are so necessary to their health that we do it so casually (think about it). 



Spaying and neutering are not necessary for their health. Indeed, it causes a lot of problems like incontinence in the girls and an increase in some kinds of cancers.

http://www.littleriverlabs.com/neuter.htm
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Many people who have looked closely at this issue choose not to spay/neuter and to be a responsible pet owner. It's really not that hard to keep your dog from getting pregnant.

And don't take my word for it. I'm hoping this post will cause people to really research this and come up with their own solutions. If you insist on spay/neutering at least wait till they are at least a year old.




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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:14:11 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i have had my cats declawed (front only) and they are strictly indoor cats.  Neither suffered any behavioral changes, came home with no evidence of tenderness or pain, jumped around, ran around like normal.  i could see no evidence of cruelty, pain or problems.  my eldest cat was declawed without stitches and she ran and jumped and was her normal self on the same day as the surgery.  Have no idea what method was used but she shows no kind of deformity.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:21:12 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Jumping in without reading any other post: I find the declawing of cats to be an absolutely abhorent practice.

If people don't want scratches on their furniture, why do they want an animal whose genetic makeup makes it want to scratch anything in sight? Cats' claws are to them like our fingers are to us.

Now, I'm angry .

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:22:24 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I prefer to just decat the cat-and not have one.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:24:43 AM   
Foititis


Posts: 66
Joined: 10/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
Sanda, I believe it is throughout Europe in general, along with the practice of docking dogs' tails, which is another abhorrent practice that was popular among 'caring' pet owners.

Tail docking is hardly an abhorrent practice by any stretch of the imagination, indeed the reason many dogs were docked originally was because they were cattle dogs and their tails often became caught under hoof. Now granted aesthetic tail docking is a moral grey area for most people (myself included) however it hardly falls into the same category as de-clawing a cat, if only for major discrepancy in financial cost and effort involved.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:26:18 AM   
fierceflawless


Posts: 12
Joined: 3/18/2006
Status: offline 		Declawing your cat is essentially the same thing as removing the first phalange of a human finger. And you wouldn't chop off parts of your own fingers (I hope), so don't do it to a cat. They can be trained to use a scratching post. 

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:28:31 AM   
Zephalt


Posts: 19
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline 		I have had many cats over the years and never declawed. In the entire time I have only seen two vets that ever expressed any compassion for an animals personal condition and evolution - there focus seems to be on accounting and legal procedures ( ensuring rabies vaccines are given et al ). Vets like doctors are wonderful advisors but I would never direct my course of action solely on the vets need to purchase a mercedes or new home.

Sadly, a neighbour decided to get a new cat for her two boisterous young teenage boys. Against multiple people advice and her own research she had the poor creature declawed. The cat ran away and was never found. I cant even imagine what happened to that poor fur ball :(

We need to appreciate the value of preserving the evolutionary path intact in its original form without disturbance, I vote not to declaw. I have three cats and they love the cardboard catnip impregnated scratching posts. Never have scratched anything although they had ( ahem - many ) scratching posts impregnated with the mearest hint of catnip always around.

Perhaps one needs to discipline oneself to train the cat and provide alternatives rather than radical and irreversable solutions like surgery which involve aneasthetics - a terrible poison for a cat which has such a low threshold with poisons. Unlike a dog for example who manufactures its own Vitamin C and can withstand the poison of aneasthetic somewhat better.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Declaw or not declaw your cat? - 1/27/2008 7:30:18 AM   
Dom4fetishtoy


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/25/2007
Status: offline 		I'm all in favor of surgically altering a willing victim, but declawing is barbaric - part of being a cat is the scratching, and if you can't handle that, don't get a cat.  Suppose you liked playing loud rock music which disturbed the cat  - would you consider having the cat made deaf ?  I've had about $5,000-worth of carpets ruined by cats.  That's life - I'd rather have the cats than the carpets.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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