RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming

RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

luvdragonx -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/2/2005 6:31:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dark~angel quote: I know exactly what you mean about the 'I'm sorry, but' or 'I hate to tell you, but', or 'I don't mean to be rude, but'. Every time I read those disclaimers, the first thing I think is, no, you aren't sorry, you LOVE telling me and you're just dying to be rude. That stuff just smacks of insincerity. I'd rather someone be blunt and truthful than really sweet and disingenuous. Nope. Wrong and total bollocks.(Godz - how can you tell I am british?) Hows that for a blunt and truthful response?[;)] Seriously though, your statement is huge generalisation. Some people dont use those words to allow them the ability to be rude. Some people use those words as a different meaning. If I am saying, 'I dont mean to be rude', its not that I dont mean to be rude - but I am not being rude. Big difference. Some people, which is quite evident by some of the responses on the forums, cannot associate a genuine response from a personal attack. I dont use it as a disclaimer, I use it as a fact. How the other person takes it, is up to them after that, and for someone to assume that what is said is just an excuse is actually showing themselves as terrible at communicating IMO. Peace and Love That's why I said "Everytime I read...the first thing I think is..." I was offering MY perception of statements like that, not what should be generally accepted. Why would you apologize for thinking a certain way? Seriously. You are who you are, and if your opinion is different from someone else's why in the world would you say you were sorry for it? If you are sorry for offending someone, then why say it in the first place? I realize there are certain phrases we use to let the other person know that you're approaching from a benign position. But so often I see/hear these phrases used immediately before/following a scathing verbal dressing-down. If you don't mean to be rude, then you won't be. If you hate to tell someone something, then you won't. If you're sorry about what you think, then you shouldn't think it anymore. How about "I know you probably won't like what I'm going to say..." or "This will probably be hard to hear...." That's truthful, honest and non-abrasive, but still softens the blow, if that's what you think needs to be done.

luvdragonx -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/2/2005 6:37:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: Big difference. Some people, which is quite evident by some of the responses on the forums, cannot associate a genuine response from a personal attack. You are right. Usually I can distinguish someone's intention by the context, though I have been known to read someone the wrong way. A lot of nuances can get lost in written communication. Earlier, when I said that I didn't like the "I'm sorry but..." I didn't mean it in the same way that luvdragonx interpreted it. Ironic, no? I should have been more clear it unnerves me because I don't like when people apologise for their opinions. You have an opinion, you should say it with confidence, assurance and respect. Then there is no reason to be sorry for it. - LA Actually that is the way I interpreted it as well. I wasn't suggesting that people use that term specifically to be mean and nasty, but come on, you're not REALLY sorry about your opinion are you? If you think something, you think it, why apologize? When I included the other two phrases, I guess people just assumed that I meant ALL disclaimers were really sneaky ways to be ugly to people. Not at all.

Gauge -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/2/2005 9:16:59 PM)
quote: quote: I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. Why are you sorry for disagreeing with me? Your disagreement doesn't offend me in the slightest, no need to apologize. Are you truly sorry for being in disagreement? Then why disagree at all? Actually, I used that line as a bit of humor because LadyAngelika had said that it got her dander up. Perhaps I should have inserted a smiley face behind it. I will be sure to do it next time to indicate humor. [:)]

luvdragonx -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/2/2005 9:18:48 PM)
LOL [:D] No harm, no foul, Gauge.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/2/2005 10:10:06 PM)
quote: Actually, I used that line as a bit of humor because LadyAngelika had said that it got her dander up. Perhaps I should have inserted a smiley face behind it. I will be sure to do it next time to indicate humor. It's just a pet peeve... I don't get my knickers in a twist about it. Come to think about it, I don't wear knickers very often ;) - LA

Lordandmaster -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 1:05:24 AM)
So now we have to apologize for saying we're sorry?

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 1:07:35 AM)
quote: Come to think about it, I don't wear knickers very often ;) Nasty girl! Yah know that song by Vanity6? [;)]M

LadyAngelika -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 7:12:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster So now we have to apologize for saying we're sorry? Yes! Now get down on your knees ang beg for my forgiveness! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 7:19:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig quote: Come to think about it, I don't wear knickers very often ;) Nasty girl! Yah know that song by Mary Jane girls? [;)]M I remember the Mary Jane Girls... Rick James protogée band. I don't remember that song though. Well I know the Destiny's Child song called Nasty Girl! I always said I'm more naughty then nasty... - LA

IronBear -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 8:16:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster So now we have to apologize for saying we're sorry? The way I was brought up, it was quite the custom to say: "I'm sorry. but I disagree with you." The reason was this. You weren't appologising for disagreeing, but you were appologising in advance for any offence you disagreeing may cause. It sort of took the wind out of the sails of the person you were disagreeing with and like noding when you are asking a question, you are predisposing that person to keep things peacefull.... I prefer a slightly different track which is a tad longer: "You may be right there, but have you concidered this....." One thing I have found is that if you tell some one they are wrong ... "Your wrong!" That person will bend over backwards to defend their stand. Because you haven't left them an honourable way out or allow them to save face if you will.

imtempting -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 9:06:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika You have an opinion, you should say it with confidence, assurance and respect. Then there is no reason to be sorry for it. - LA I agree with this statement fully. I am never sorry for anything I post no matter if it is against the 'norm' or everyone else in the thread.....

slavedesires -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 9:49:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl I'm a blunt person and I tell it like I see it. If you're making an ass out of yourself, I'm going to tell you. I won't be unkind about it, but I'll tell you none the less. Just because I don't wrap it in pretty words and fluff, doesn't mean I'm rude. Matter of fact, the directness is sometimes the only thing that penetrates into the minds of some of the misty eyed novice submissives who threw away their common sense when they got involved with D/s BDSM. (Whew, run on sentence) And the strange part is....the majority of people that have issues with my directness are the "sugar-coaters". i posted my thoughts on directness vs sarcasm on the Feelings of worth thread...which is basicly what you have said. i also made a "suggestion" to RG which was pretty much taken as i was "telling" her..... yes the bitch word was offensive and if i had taken a step back..would not have responded/reacted the way i did..... do i have issues? we ALL do. but you know what? none of us, becasue we are human, will always listen, be polite, not assume, not make generalization, not react negatively or whatever ~ consistently. attempts at conflict resolution fail...why? becasue we still like to blame the other guy.... human nature. i would rather be myself and human and learn lesson in life than be perfect..... i like what IronBear (i believe that is who said it) said on a different thread: "Life is a series of learnings and tests. It doesnt matter if we pass the tests, what matters is thast we make the attempt. there is no right or wrong, that is how we perceive them. What also matters is that we learn from all the lessons life has to offer including perceived set backs... Life has an interesting habit of pushing you to break point." just my thoughts...and still learning to listen, be polite, and take responsiblity for my inadequacies ~~shy

slavedesires -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 9:52:25 AM)
quote: http://www.colorado.edu/conflict/peace/treatment/activel.htm thank you for the link PP ~~shy

darkinshadows -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 10:39:43 AM)
quote: That's why I said "Everytime I read...the first thing I think is..." I was offering MY perception of statements like that, not what should be generally accepted. Why would you apologize for thinking a certain way? Seriously. You are who you are, and if your opinion is different from someone else's why in the world would you say you were sorry for it? If you are sorry for offending someone, then why say it in the first place? I realize there are certain phrases we use to let the other person know that you're approaching from a benign position. But so often I see/hear these phrases used immediately before/following a scathing verbal dressing-down. If you don't mean to be rude, then you won't be. If you hate to tell someone something, then you won't. If you're sorry about what you think, then you shouldn't think it anymore. How about "I know you probably won't like what I'm going to say..." or "This will probably be hard to hear...." That's truthful, honest and non-abrasive, but still softens the blow, if that's what you think needs to be done. You are making an assumption that all sorrys are an apology. You are placing your ideal upon everyone around you. Worse than saying sorry - is generalisation. Some people feel they need to apologise. Then so be it. Some people use it to explain empathy. Then so be it. Some people use it as an excuse. Then so be it. But whatever the reason a word is used, it is unwise to assume that the person is apologising out of a fear of what others think and that all apology is insincere. It is your assumption that Gauge wrote to you, using an apology. You jumped to a concluesion based upon your own reaction to a statement. However, I saw His irony and His lighthearted yet respectful personality in His response - possibly because I am accustomed by His words from the blessings He instills on the board with His posts - also because of my desire to communicate. But you wondered why He would apologise. Spend anytime on a message board like this one, and with people in real life and you can begin to understand and comprehend the different personalities of each person. If someone uses 'I am sorry' in empathy to instill reassurance to someone - why should that be deemed as insincerity? It is easy to judge everyone by ones own standards and reactions, but it is harder and alot wiser to remove oneself from generalising and see people as individuals. It takes more time and invested energy - but in the longrun, it is extremely rewarding both to oneself and to the people around one. Peace and Love

luvdragonx -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 11:25:28 AM)
quote: You are making an assumption that all sorrys are an apology. Um, I kinda thought that's what "I'm sorry" was - an apology of sorts. I think maybe you have made an assumption on how I choose to interpret words spoken to me. Maybe even going so far as to suggest how I should interpret these things. Do I think a person is insincere when they say 'I'm sorry your grandfather died'? No, I don't. Do I think a person is insincere when they say 'I'm sorry, I didn't hear you'? No, I don't Do I think a person is insincere when they say 'I'm sorry, but I think you're an idiot'? Yeah. Not about thinking I'm an idiot, but about being sorry for it. It's all about context. I realize that people use certain words and phrases out of habit, usually to convey some feeling or sentiment. The question "Excuse me?" can be easily interepreted as defensive, both in print and spoken, so many opt for something more neutral, even apologetic such as "I'm sorry?" I personally say "I'm sorry" when I've misunderstood someone or need them to repeat it, because 'Excuse me' coming out of my mouth just sounds attitudinal, even when I don't mean for it to - the tone of my voice is hard to read. I am, for the most part, a literal person. I take the words I read at face value. The topic of this discussion was disagreements on the message boards, so when I read 'I'm sorry, but..." followed by clearly inflammatory diatribe, I don't believe that person is sorry (maybe I should have included that in my first post?). Nor do I think that anyone should apologize for their opinions. As I said originally, it's reasonable to assume that all involved on these are adults who are capable of reading a contrary opinion without feeling insulted/offended/hurt/maligned, etc. As far as what Gauge wrote, no. I jumped to no conclusion. I too forgot my smiley, though I realized he was making a point. I asked all those questions of his 'I'm sorry" to make my own point. 'I'm sorry" sounds like an apology to me, sincere or not. I guess that means I'm narrow-minded, judgemental, and incapable of communicating, huh? [:D]

luvdragonx -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 11:31:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavedesires quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl I'm a blunt person and I tell it like I see it. If you're making an ass out of yourself, I'm going to tell you. I won't be unkind about it, but I'll tell you none the less. Just because I don't wrap it in pretty words and fluff, doesn't mean I'm rude. Matter of fact, the directness is sometimes the only thing that penetrates into the minds of some of the misty eyed novice submissives who threw away their common sense when they got involved with D/s BDSM. (Whew, run on sentence) And the strange part is....the majority of people that have issues with my directness are the "sugar-coaters". i posted my thoughts on directness vs sarcasm on the Feelings of worth thread...which is basicly what you have said. i also made a "suggestion" to RG which was pretty much taken as i was "telling" her..... yes the bitch word was offensive and if i had taken a step back..would not have responded/reacted the way i did..... do i have issues? we ALL do. but you know what? none of us, becasue we are human, will always listen, be polite, not assume, not make generalization, not react negatively or whatever ~ consistently. attempts at conflict resolution fail...why? becasue we still like to blame the other guy.... human nature. i would rather be myself and human and learn lesson in life than be perfect..... i like what IronBear (i believe that is who said it) said on a different thread: "Life is a series of learnings and tests. It doesnt matter if we pass the tests, what matters is thast we make the attempt. there is no right or wrong, that is how we perceive them. What also matters is that we learn from all the lessons life has to offer including perceived set backs... Life has an interesting habit of pushing you to break point." just my thoughts...and still learning to listen, be polite, and take responsiblity for my inadequacies ~~shy I agree. Since we are all individuals, your individual 'take' or perception is part of what makes you YOU. Over time those perceptions may change, hopefully not because someone told you to, but because you've taken experiences and learned from them.

darkinshadows -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 12:16:44 PM)
quote: 'I'm sorry" sounds like an apology to me, sincere or not. I guess that means I'm narrow-minded, judgemental, and incapable of communicating, huh? Yes. But then, you did want directness, didnt you? [;)] Peace and Love

Gauge -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 12:33:59 PM)
quote: It is your assumption that Gauge wrote to you, using an apology. You jumped to a concluesion based upon your own reaction to a statement. However, I saw His irony and His lighthearted yet respectful personality in His response - possibly because I am accustomed by His words from the blessings He instills on the board with His posts I see that my bank check cleared. [:D]

darkinshadows -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/3/2005 1:12:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: It is your assumption that Gauge wrote to you, using an apology. You jumped to a concluesion based upon your own reaction to a statement. However, I saw His irony and His lighthearted yet respectful personality in His response - possibly because I am accustomed by His words from the blessings He instills on the board with His posts I see that my bank check cleared. [:D] yup! [sm=lol.gif] Peace and Love

cellogrrlMK -> RE: Listening and Courtesy vs. Flaming (9/4/2005 11:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl I'm a blunt person and I tell it like I see it. If you're making an ass out of yourself, I'm going to tell you. I won't be unkind about it, but I'll tell you none the less. Just because I don't wrap it in pretty words and fluff, doesn't mean I'm rude. Matter of fact, the directness is sometimes the only thing that penetrates into the minds of some of the misty eyed novice submissives who threw away their common sense when they got involved with D/s BDSM. (Whew, run on sentence) And the strange part is....the majority of people that have issues with my directness are the "sugar-coaters". OsideGirl, I'm the same way... are you by any chance an Aries? [;)] I too will tell someone directly what my opinion is, and have found that sugar-coating it really doesn't help. Either the person, be it a real friend or a mere acquaintance, will truly listen to and hear what I have to say (or type) or they will be upset with my honesty. It's gotten me into trouble a few times, but I'm not going to disrespect and lie to someone if they show me the respect of asking my opinion. cello

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875