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The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 2:57:50 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		That is probably not the best title on the planet.  Maybe I can give a better sense of what I mean with a description, rather than a title.  I'm not especially thrilled with My own use of the word "punishment", since I realize that word in itself can bring up all kinds of confusion in exactly what it means in a M/s or D/s context.  Some equate physical pain with punishment, which I don't, and hope not to cause any blur with that distinction. 

Many of Us are familiar with a submissive's reaction to having disappointed their Domme.  That alone can be the worst punishment to the way they feel.  It absolutely tears them up.  Even being told to kneel for fifteen minutes and think about whatever transgresion has transpired can hurt them very deeply.  Writing assignments that focus on such incidents can be amazingly difficult for them to complete, because with every word they write, they are forced to remember their sense of failure to their Domme.

My question is really this.  When your sub or slave is having to go through such an exercise, either self imposed or given by you, what effect does it have on you?  Do you hurt right along with your submissive to a degree?  Do you understand some of the process of what is going on inside of them on an emotional level, and feel empathy for them?  In other words, do you feel the punishments, or corrective actions effect you, too?

My thanks in advance for those who take the time to read the above gibberish and respond.
 
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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 3:39:30 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Lady P.....

quote:

  Many of Us are familiar with a submissive's reaction to having disappointed their Domme.  That alone can be the worst punishment to the way they feel.  It absolutely tears them up.


This says it all for me. I once upset a Mistress who decided on a week of  " No contact  "  All the way through i was tempted to talk to Her yet somehow resisted, i felt very low the whole week. Once the week was up She asked how i had felt, so i explained, still feeling a tad sorry for myself. She then told me how She had cried at not being able to contact me. Instantly i felt a million times worse, knowing i had upset Her so much was devasting news to me.

i never made the same mistake again thats for sure.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 6:53:47 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

My question is really this.  When your sub or slave is having to go through such an exercise, either self imposed or given by you, what effect does it have on you?  Do you hurt right along with your submissive to a degree?  Do you understand some of the process of what is going on inside of them on an emotional level, and feel empathy for them?  In other words, do you feel the punishments, or corrective actions effect you, too?


LadyPact
I am not even going to read the other replies because this is so important to me. I am unbelievably sad when I have to punish him. My heart breaks with every word I say and every action I take. I think many subs do not understand the pain a Dominant goes through when they have to be hard on them or punish them. Many times I have gone to the bathroom and just sobbed because I could hear him in the bedroom crying or standing in the corner repeating he will not do such and such. It is like a knife that goes through my heart. All I wanted was for him to be happy and to enjoy our time together, and yet he continued to disobey me. I was left with NO resource but to release him. Now THAT is a pain no one should have to go through and yet stand tall and say "I am a Domina", while her heart is bleeding. Yes, it is true, Dominants have feelings too and can be hurt just as much as the next human.

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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 7:05:24 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Absolute misery.  Loads of self-doubt that maybe I made a terrible choice with that person. 

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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 7:18:50 PM   
Zaraseeks


Posts: 130
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline 		I am so grateful this post is here, makes me much more grateful for correction, and makes me understand more where the Domme is coming from, thankYou All

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 8:24:50 PM   
subtreat4u


Posts: 58
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline 		Please forgive me if i am speaking when maybe i should not!
  i have no room to talk about anything, however i would hope there would be some empathy from both Domme,and or Master concerning your question. (Thread LadyPact)
    I have no experience to talk of, but can truly say feeling that you failed some one is probably the worst thing that could be felt.     Thank you for letting me say what I think concerning this.  

(in reply to Zaraseeks)
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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 9:47:51 PM   
DominaJayde


Posts: 110
Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Oh I positively hate it as much as they do... 1) because it implies that somehow I have failed them, because they have done something wrong, that I have let them down by not explaining properly or correcting them before it gets out of hand and 2) because it does tend to weaken the bond a little I feel.

My preferred method of punishment is a limited period of no contact plus a short written essay about what has just happened, I have to keep myself from seeing if they are allright..

DJ


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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/28/2008 10:10:15 PM   
carolinasubm


Posts: 2
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Lady Pact,

Good subject and no need for the apology regarding how you posed it.  Failing your Mistress is as bad if not worse than failing in any other very important aspect of life, whether it be family or career.  Physical punishment may be warrented and necessary for correction, but there is still no worse punishment in my experience than no contact.  The uncertainty coupled with the guilt of the transgression supercedes almost any physical punishment.  Simply put, not having the priviledge of serving Mistress is the most severe pain of all.

PS:  Love your new pics, VERY NICE!

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 5:42:25 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I appreciate everyone who took the time to respond on this.

Politesub, thank you for sharing your experience.  That week must have been very hard on both of you.  I completely see the position your former Mistress was in having to tell you how hard that week was on her.  Having to tell  your sub how the punishment effects the Mistress is very difficult to say, because she knows how it effects the sub, but not telling them is worse.  It's important to share the feelings that are experienced by both if a no contact period is used.

MistressofGA, you have it spot on with the description of 'heart breaking'.  It hurts terribly to have to follow through on any type of correction, when you already know your sub is feeling that kind of pain.  It puts you in the position of having to allow them to hurt, and to a Domme, that is one of the most difficult things.  I'm sorry to hear the tail end of your post.  I agree.  Releasing someone can be one of the hardest things a Dominant ever has to do.

LadyH, yes, misery is another good description.  Self doubt is certainly in there.

Zara, you're welcome.  I hope it does show the other side of things.

Subtreat, your comments were welcome.  That's the idea of putting these things up here.  To share thoughts.

DominaJayde, I'm right there with you, on both counts.  The feeling of failure isn't a one way street in these matters.  As for weakening the bond, there is a touch of that.  Thankfully, it does rebuild.

Carolinasubm, thank you for the compliment on the pics.  It's nice to see you on this side.  I agree.  The no contact thing is very hard, on both.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 6:09:21 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


My question is really this. When your sub or slave is having to go through such an exercise, either self imposed or given by you, what effect does it have on you? Do you hurt right along with your submissive to a degree? Do you understand some of the process of what is going on inside of them on an emotional level, and feel empathy for them? In other words, do you feel the punishments, or corrective actions effect you, too?



I don't hurt or feel empathy. I feel disappointed.

In them.
In me.
In the fact that apparently training didn't work well enough yet.

Punishment in my very strong opinion should feel bad to everyone because it means there has been a failure.

I only punish for failure which in my household means disobedience not for errors not for accidents -- that's happens, it's a human thing.

The first time, we talk about the problem, he/she corrects the problem, there is some punishment that allows forgiveness afterwards.

The second time for the same disobedience, discussion, correction, harsher punishment.

Third time for the same thing there is no punishment because in my opinion there has been a solid rejection of the authority dynamic. I'll open the door and say "don't let it hit your ass on the way out".

_____________________________

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TammyJo

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 7:48:09 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I don't hurt or feel empathy. I feel disappointed.

In them.
In me.
In the fact that apparently training didn't work well enough yet.

Punishment in my very strong opinion should feel bad to everyone because it means there has been a failure.

I only punish for failure which in my household means disobedience not for errors not for accidents -- that's happens, it's a human thing.

The first time, we talk about the problem, he/she corrects the problem, there is some punishment that allows forgiveness afterwards.

The second time for the same disobedience, discussion, correction, harsher punishment.

Third time for the same thing there is no punishment because in my opinion there has been a solid rejection of the authority dynamic. I'll open the door and say "don't let it hit your ass on the way out".

Good Morning, Tammyjo.  Thank you for responding.

The phrasing of the disappointment is fair and accurate.  Yes, in him.  Yes, in Me.  The hurt part comes in because I hurt, knowing My sub is hurting.  (Have I ever mentioned on these boards that I can be such the whimp in these situations?)  It's very painful for Me to know the emotional turmoil that he goes through.  I'm just that type.  When anyone I have a connection with is hurting, I hurt for them having to feel that.  It's just in My nature. 

Currently, it is still right in the middle of what you described when you outlined the first infraction.  Literally Sunday, day of incident, Monday, day of punishment, and today, day of forgiveness.  Having had this experience before (not with this particular sub or for the same infraction), I do know it gets better from here.  It's that in-between time that's the kicker.

One other thing I'd like to address is what you mentioned about mistakes, and that they are about being human.  I see that very much as you do.  I'm human.  I make mistakes.  My sub is human.  He makes mistakes.  Hopefully, some learning comes from them.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 10:39:21 AM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline 		I somehow doubt a Domme could punish me any worse than I'd be punishing myself internally for having failed her. 
 
I'd hope, if anything that we'd be trying to talk it through; figuring out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again.
 
 - pixel


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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 10:54:07 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixelslave

I somehow doubt a Domme could punish me any worse than I'd be punishing myself internally for having failed her. 
 
I'd hope, if anything that we'd be trying to talk it through; figuring out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again.
 
 - pixel


This first point is absolutely agreed.  It certainly references My above statement about how it hurts Me to see him in such an emotional state.

The second point about the communication is also true.  The punishment, along with other methods, are being employed to ensure that it never happens again.  My sub was put under a day of no physical contact, but not no contact period.  I would never dream of completely closing communication.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to pixelslave)
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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 11:24:38 AM   
GoddessTeaze


Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
My question is really this.  When your sub or slave is having to go through such an exercise, either self imposed or given by you, what effect does it have on you? 


Who said to that punishment were fun?

I hate giving them, it's never fun to hurt Your own property.

Very good topic LadyPact!
it's good to show people how it works for Us!

Warm Greetingz

GoddezzT`


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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 11:40:23 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Thank you, Teaze.  I was hoping that by making the post, I could not only work through some things in My own head, ut also to sprinkle some of that 'real life' situation on the board.  In real life, not everyone is happy, perfect, and sunshine.  Sometimes, mistakes are made, and situations have to be dealt with.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 11:48:50 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Part of me hurts along with him because I wonder if in some way I failed him, perhaps I didn't guide him as well as I could have. Another part of me says that submission is like anything else its a learning process and no one comes born with all of the answers. subs like Dom/mes make mistakes and we have to try and learn from them.

I've given writing assignments because I know he hates to write, I've made him wear underwear that was too small for him for another infraction and I've ignored him, which according to him was the most painful thing he has ever had to endure. Did I enjoy it? Not really, my intention was for him to learn from his mistake and to hopefully engrain it into his brain not to do it again.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: The effects of punishment - 1/29/2008 12:32:59 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Hello Lashara.  Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I tend not to use the term ignore, though I'm sure the period of kneeling and 'wait' is very similar.  Those fifteen minutes while I decided consequences had to have seemed a lot longer.  I've never cut anyone off completely for a long period of time.  That's My own weakness. 

Absolute ditto on the writing thing.  Mine hates it, too.  Still, I think he'd rather do a hundred writing assignments, rather than disappoint Me.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 17
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