Stop and Search (UK)

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seeksfemslave -> Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 7:15:55 AM)
Its just been announced that the PC lunacy of requiring the police to fill out a detailed document everytime they stopped anyone is to be abandoned. It was only introduced a couple of years ago because the minorities felt victimised. Thus if the day's docs didnt include the names of old ladies, fatties, thinnies, baldies teenagers and pensioners of every race creed and colour than de facto discrimination was known to be at work. The reason for stopping is the increase in gun and knife crime which itself is a consequence of PC attitudes to Law and Order. Whenever the crime stats. are announced in the UK we are always told overall crime is down but there was a 20% increase in violent crime and house breaking. Only 25 million quid was extorted from motorists due to speeding offenses because the police spent so much time processing their daily reports. Carnt help larfing I carnt

LadyEllen -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 7:31:02 AM)
I remember when the head of the Met announced rather foolishly that gun and knife crime was more prevalent in Afro Caribbean communities. Obvious prejudice and racial discrimination - except that it happened to be true according to the crime figures...... albeit of course, if one is stopping and searching only Afro Caribbeans then one is ever only going to find guns and knives in the possession of that group and the figures will show theyre a problem community in this respect. E

seeksfemslave -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 7:39:04 AM)
LadyE said quote: number1 I remember when the head of the Met announced rather foolishly that gun and knife crime was more prevalent in Afro Caribbean communities. Obvious prejudice and racial discrimination - except that it happened to be true according to the crime figures...... quote: number2 albeit of course, if one is stopping and searching only Afro Caribbeans then one is ever only going to find guns and knives in the possession of that group and the figures will show theyre a problem community in this respect E Crime figures should determine who is searched not balancing the books.

LadyEllen -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 7:47:47 AM)
But thats the point Seeks If you breathalyse only people with Irish surnames then the figures for drunk driving will show that Irish descended people are a real problem group for drunk driving. When of course, all groups are populated by some who drink and drive. E

RealityLicks -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 8:42:39 AM)
As I recall, the requirement on police to give reasons for stopping and searching members of the public came about as a result of MacPherson. For those who get their news from the gutter press and their educations from Readers' Digest, that independent enquiry was into charges that the Met was institutionally racist. It found that they were. Some measures were taken simply to awaken them to their shortcomings. It could be argued that since then, the police have increased their awareness of and sensitivity toward racism and therefore can now be given more latitude to use their discretion. It's also worth noting however, that the paperwork in question takes at most just 7 minutes to complete. The proposed change will see certain "zones", designated by local agreement, where the new regime is considered the best option. The chronic shortage of housing in our inner cities and the cost to the NHS of rising life expectancy is causing the youth many worries about their future, loss of hope and thereby, delinquency. Euthanasia as a means to relieving some of the pressure remains an option but is still opposed by the PC Brigade. Edit - The enquiry was called after the police failed to follow correct procedure in the investigation into the racial murder of a young black student, Stephen Lawrence, allowing his killers to walk free. It found many instances in which Britain's routine policing practises were racist and recommended changes.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 8:44:46 AM)
Half true LadyE, if people report that they have been the victim of knife crime and of every 100 muggings 70 were carried out by blacks then you dont on average stop and search whites. In Brixton a few years ago it was reported that over 90% of street violence was carried out by blacks. The response: stop publishing the reports. This was at the time of the Brixton riot.

RealityLicks -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 8:59:56 AM)
If we could free up some housing and other resources, many of the causes of crime would disappear. We simply can't afford to have people living to be 78 on average in the UK, any sensible appraissal of the facts tells us this. I'd gladly give five or six of my twilight years to ensure a decent chance for a younger person. Any older collarme regulars volunteering?

popeye1250 -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 9:13:41 AM)
If you guys have such a severe shortage of housing in England has it occured to the Ministry of Silly Walks to maybe stop letting people into the country?

RealityLicks -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 9:27:11 AM)
No. Because they are in charge of silly walks.

LadyEllen -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 9:27:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave In Brixton a few years ago it was reported that over 90% of street violence was carried out by blacks. The response: stop publishing the reports. This was at the time of the Brixton riot. Well, and I dont have exact demographics or census reports to hand, isnt Brixton largely Afro Caribbean populated? Maybe even 90% AC populated? Which would sort of make it inevitable that AC people would be responsible for most of the crime? Meanwhile 90% (at least) of street violence in my town is carried out by white people - we have a fair few ISC settlers, but theyre too busy running small businesses or down the Mosque, but very few AC. Does this mean we should stop and search all white people in my town? Does this not prove, by the same logic as you seem to apply to the AC population, that all white people must be violent thugs? I think RL has it right. The need to produce these reports was clear - so that an analysis could be produced to monitor potential survival of the proven institutional racism in the police and in policing. Now that monitoring has been deemed to be completed and obviously satisfactory results have been forthcoming (otherwise we'd have heard about it) so its not needed any more, for the moment. I would fully expect it to be reintroduced at some stage in the future though, even if for a shorter period. Rather than play the blame game in this country - identifying certain groups as the cause of all social ills, I only see a future for us, as a unified country regardless of where we came from, if we make it so. And identify the true cause of our social ills and resolve them, rather than trying to tame the symptoms of a rapidly failing nation. E

RCdc -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 9:32:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 If you guys have such a severe shortage of housing in England has it occured to the Ministry of Silly Walks to maybe stop letting people into the country? This is Darcy You'd think so, wouldn't you popeye? However, our government is so enslaved to the dreaded EEC human rights charter that it is afraid to raise a voice against anything or anyone, regardless of whether they are law-abiding citizens or free-loading criminals. Plus, our ministers have become so focused on feathering their own nests and ensuring their raft of non-executive directorships and lecture circuits post-government that they don't actually give a shit about the people or the country any more.

RealityLicks -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 9:51:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave In Brixton a few years ago it was reported that over 90% of street violence was carried out by blacks. The response: stop publishing the reports. This was at the time of the Brixton riot. Who investigated this and where were the results published? Whose response was it to stop publishing the reports? Please let me know about this new material you have uncovered. Meanwhile, I seem to remember the Brixton riots occured 20 years before MacPherson, black people saw the riots as a response to heavy-handed policing - the "Sus" laws - but this was dismissed by the Scarman Report which refuted suggestions of institutional racism, instead blaming unemployment as the chief factor, caused by discrimination by the white public. He advocated recruiting more minority police officers. Bear in mind, unemployment in Brixton generally stood at 13% and 25.4% for ethnic minorities. Unemployment among black youths was estimated at 55%. Later in life, Lord Scarman publicly criticised his own report, lamenting that he had not gone much further in addressing the racism which was rife in the Police force - as was common knowledge to everyone in Britain.

LadyEllen -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 9:51:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 If you guys have such a severe shortage of housing in England has it occured to the Ministry of Silly Walks to maybe stop letting people into the country? Or we could build sufficient housing - but that would mean property would be more plentiful and prices would fall - which would expose the banks to all the credit people have run up over these last few years on the strength of their house prices. And we cant have that Popeye. My sister is a dental technician, her fiance is an auto mechanic - both pretty much run of the mill jobs here, but theyre both working full time and earning reasonable money. They want to marry and get their own place - but they dont have a hope in hell because they couldnt even afford a one bedroom apartment. If it were the early 70s they have been able to get a 2 or 3 bed semi detached house on their salaries. My brother is a qualified accountant. A pretty reasonable job with a good income. The best he can afford is a two bedroom apartment. If it were the early 70s he'd be in a 4/5 bed detached house with plenty of garden without breaking a sweat. And this housing thing is just one aspect of why its all gone wrong here. Just one cause of the symptoms we're experiencing in terms of the growth of substance abuse (in which I include alcohol), the growth of anti-social behaviour etc. It seems that no one - especially those whom we elect to manage things so that life is as good as possible for as many as possible - gives a flying fuck. E

RealityLicks -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 10:03:54 AM)
Housing is an issue in this country because Margaret Thatcher sold the council houses and forbade their replacement by the proceeds of their sale. Her idea was that house-owners would be more likely to vote for the Tories. Almost immediately and for the first time in a generation, young homelessness started to spread across Britain as people sought to keep things for themselves which had previously been community property.

Aneirin -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 10:08:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It seems that no one - especially those whom we elect to manage things so that life is as good as possible for as many as possible - gives a flying fuck. E Then the only power left to us, is to vote the buggers out. But then what is there to replace them, more of the same I suspect. Or, a protest vote might stir up some fear with the politicians who so depend on us to keep them in the luxury they have. It is a great pity screaming Lord Sutch has passed on, say he or similar got into power, honestly do you think he could do a worse job of running the country.

Politesub53 -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 10:10:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks As I recall, the requirement on police to give reasons for stopping and searching members of the public came about as a result of MacPherson. For those who get their news from the gutter press and their educations from Readers' Digest, that independent enquiry was into charges that the Met was institutionally racist. It found that they were. Some measures were taken simply to awaken them to their shortcomings. It could be argued that since then, the police have increased their awareness of and sensitivity toward racism and therefore can now be given more latitude to use their discretion. It's also worth noting however, that the paperwork in question takes at most just 7 minutes to complete. The proposed change will see certain "zones", designated by local agreement, where the new regime is considered the best option. The chronic shortage of housing in our inner cities and the cost to the NHS of rising life expectancy is causing the youth many worries about their future, loss of hope and thereby, delinquency. Euthanasia as a means to relieving some of the pressure remains an option but is still opposed by the PC Brigade. Edit - The enquiry was called after the police failed to follow correct procedure in the investigation into the racial murder of a young black student, Stephen Lawrence, allowing his killers to walk free. It found many instances in which Britain's routine policing practises were racist and recommended changes. Any chance of a link to where it says the stop and search report only takes 7 minutes. The Tories claim doing away with it will save 900,000 man hours, if true thats an awful lot of searches. From the BBC news page "The Tories claim scrapping the forms would save 900,000 police hours per year in England and Wales. " Seems to me its another case of Gordon Brown looking at costs rather than results. Its about time someone admitted there a a big link between gun crime and drugs, and tackled the problem. We have brown saying these new super jails will be built just after Straw said it wasnt definate. Yet again its a case of policy making on the hoof. Still, at least Conway is stepping down, i wonder if any of the other MPs creaming money off of tax payers for personal use will do the same.

LadyEllen -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 10:29:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It seems that no one - especially those whom we elect to manage things so that life is as good as possible for as many as possible - gives a flying fuck. E Then the only power left to us, is to vote the buggers out. But then what is there to replace them, more of the same I suspect. Or, a protest vote might stir up some fear with the politicians who so depend on us to keep them in the luxury they have. It is a great pity screaming Lord Sutch has passed on, say he or similar got into power, honestly do you think he could do a worse job of running the country. Thats the problem though isnt it? Whomever we elect they all have to pander to the real constituency in which power lies in this country - The City and Canary Wharf and Rupert Murdoch, and our interests are merely incidental. And another problem is this "well, I (or my dad) always voted for them, so I will too" sort of mentality. Honestly, who reads the party manifestos before they go to vote I wonder? And why would they bother? All thats on offer is different flavours of ice cream, not a selection of desserts. And its not as if I would hold out too much hope for a new party of protest either to which we could all pin our colours in a bid to get anything changed. It would be strangled at birth by those interested in maintaining the status quo - Mr Murdoch in particular. E

RealityLicks -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 10:29:46 AM)
As a known leftist rabble-rouser, I have to be careful my sources are free from blemish... Speaking in today's Telegraph, green-conscious cyclist and limousine out-rider David Cameron, spake thus: "For more than three years the Conservative party has been arguing that we should scrap the form that police have to fill in every time they stop someone. It is a foot long and takes seven minutes to complete. " And yes, it is a lot of searches, which when you consider that 95% of them lead nowhere does beg the question of how useful increasing them will be. "Its about time someone admitted there a a big link between gun crime and drugs, and tackled the problem." Polite Sub 53 There's also a big link between almost all crime and drugs. We all have a stake in good, effective policing but we have to learn from past mistakes. Stop and search wouldn't have saved the guy murdered by an entire family over a football last weekend - maybe other methods are needed rather than simply seeing the police being tough with kids. Many among us hang their sense of safety and security on the hook of being treated "better" than some other group, when it's really just window dressing.

popeye1250 -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 11:02:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 If you guys have such a severe shortage of housing in England has it occured to the Ministry of Silly Walks to maybe stop letting people into the country? This is Darcy You'd think so, wouldn't you popeye? However, our government is so enslaved to the dreaded EEC human rights charter that it is afraid to raise a voice against anything or anyone, regardless of whether they are law-abiding citizens or free-loading criminals. Plus, our ministers have become so focused on feathering their own nests and ensuring their raft of non-executive directorships and lecture circuits post-government that they don't actually give a shit about the people or the country any more. Darcy, it's easy, you just need one of them to grow a set of balls and stand up and say you aren't doing it anymore. Man, all that "PC" crap has you guys on a path to National suicide.

kdsub -> RE: Stop and Search (UK) (1/30/2008 11:09:54 AM)
I would guess, on the average at least, that it is not ethnic origin or race that determines the crime rate but the overall economic standing of an area. I think many police departments make the mistake of assigning crime to a group rather than economic desperation. They once published a map of my area by crimes… and in a different story a few weeks later they produced a map of average family incomes…. Guess what… they matched regardless of the predominance of one ethnic group or another. There was an increase in crime in poor white as well as poor black, poor Bosnian immigrants poor anyone. Desperation…anger and envy breed crime. Butch

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