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Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 10:37:23 AM

kyraofMists

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I asked this question of my Lord while we were getting to know each other and I think it is a worthwhile question to throw out to the Message Boards.

In our relationships where one gives up so much control or even all control to another, do you think it easy for that person to define their happiness by the happiness of the one in control? How do you keep your relationships from becoming co-dependent? How do you walk that fine line between co-dependence and inter-dependence or do you even consider it a fine line? How do you keep, it makes me happy to please you from becoming, I am dependent on you for my happiness?

Knight's kyra

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 10:41:18 AM

Elegant

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AHhh..another one of my 'maladies'. Holds up gold plated membership card to CODA (Co-Dependants Anonymous)

It's a fine line to dance and one that needs shaking every so often by Master Archer. I often have to remind myself NOT TO BASE MY HAPPINESS ON MAKING HIM HAPPY but rather to use my own happiness to please him.

He is good in understanding the difference and has often denied me the right to do something for him is he thinks it would be feeding my co-dependancy. He does not wish to be an enabler, would rather be a positive force for my copdependancy.

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 10:43:52 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
In our relationships where one gives up so much control or even all control to another, do you think it easy for that person to define their happiness by the happiness of the one in control?

I think that IS a large way that submissives find fulfillment in themselves (course it's good to remember a majority of dominants find pleasure in knowing their subs are pleased as well).

quote:

How do you keep your relationships from becoming co-dependent?

By keeping the person secure in themselves, realizing that it is THEIR obedience and THEIR choices which allow them to be pleasing, which allow them to choose. Co-dependency arises from feeling out of control and insecure, submission has a huge leeway of control and security.

quote:

How do you walk that fine line between co-dependence and inter-dependence or do you even consider it a fine line? How do you keep, it makes me happy to please you from becoming, I am dependent on you for my happiness?

I don't think there necessarily is a line. For example, I AM dependent upon my boyfriend for some measure of happiness. I know that, no matter WHAT I did or didn't do, if the relationship ended, I'd lose some happiness. After all, realtionships are formed because we believe they makeo ur lives more fulfilled than we would be without them.

I think the difference is that you aren't AFRAID of making the right choice, even at the expense of happiness of the moment. Make the submissive and dominant confident about making the right choice, despite possible losses, then I think you're good.

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 10:50:23 AM

greenie

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Tough question and although i'm terrible with words i'll try to explain this from my viewpoint, keep in mind this is what works for me and may not for others...
i crave the serving of another, need it, desire it, BUT i have been on my own and haven't been the type to go from relationship to relationship. In between my relationships has been a time for me to reflect on the past but mostly on me. i can be happy on my own, or not depending on my circumstances. This last time i was single for 2 years. So, when with someone where even though the relationship wasn't D/s per'se i was and always have been submissive, it was easy not to rely on them for my happiness because my happiness is within me. The thought of things with that person ending may have been horrific but in the end i knew in my heart and soul that i would survive and life would be just as good if not better. I like to use food as an analogy, lol gee go figure, but i see my life as any meal...it's healthy and can be good just plain but throw in a bit of seasonings and spice and it changes the food completely!
All of this took me time to learn since i was a co-dependent for much of my childhood and early adult life, the result of growing up with an addict as a parent, but after a bit of counselling i learned what was going on and was able to overcome it.
Did i answer the question at hand during my rambling? My mind tends to jump around alot lol

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 1:10:13 PM

Archer

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Knowing the possibility is always the most important part of avoiding the hazard of an unhealthy co dependance. If we concern ourselves with the health and safety aspects of a person in a scene then certainly we cannot forget to keep those things in mind when we are dealing with the daily service aspects of a relationship.

I have on other subjects mentioned my view on the motivation behind an act making the difference, in this area we work the other end of the spectrum. When is an act done simply to make the other person happy and when is it done to make them selves happy? is the quetion that must be answered.

Co dependance is a malady where the goal is to make yourself happy by makeing the other person happy. The goal is self not other and thus not realy about serving me.
The goal of being happy and sharing that happiness with me is the healthy way and the way that has serving me at it's heart kinda seems backwards but it's not.

In Leather

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 2:36:38 PM

anopheles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Knowing the possibility is always the most important part of avoiding the hazard of an unhealthy co dependance. If we concern ourselves with the health and safety aspects of a person in a scene then certainly we cannot forget to keep those things in mind when we are dealing with the daily service aspects of a relationship.

I have on other subjects mentioned my view on the motivation behind an act making the difference, in this area we work the other end of the spectrum. When is an act done simply to make the other person happy and when is it done to make them selves happy? is the quetion that must be answered.

Co dependance is a malady where the goal is to make yourself happy by makeing the other person happy. The goal is self not other and thus not realy about serving me.
The goal of being happy and sharing that happiness with me is the healthy way and the way that has serving me at it's heart kinda seems backwards but it's not.

In Leather

Archer

To take Archer's post a little further, where he says that the motivation of the act makes all the difference, the motivation as well as the choice is important as well. My submissive chooses to serve me. She chooses because she independently wants to do so. If she decides on her own that she doesn't want to do so, then she always has the choice to not do so. Codepdent relationships often arise, both BDSM and vanilla, when a person feels robbed of their identity, so as a coping mechanism, they have no real physchological choice but to rely on the hapiness of the other person to feel 'happy', kind of like chemical addicition, and thats the start of a downward spiral where one person has power that they either don't want or that they don't even KNOW they have, and the other person is left with emptiness and hopes that they don't have any chance of fulfilling for themselves.

--Anopheles

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 2:42:57 PM

OscarHargraves

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I guess this goes back to the differences in Subs between an inteliigent Sub and a doormat. I have a Sub who is very strong willed when I'm not around and in control. She also doesn't live with me and that would make it easier to differentiate between co-dependance and inter-dependance.

Yes, it is going to be hard in some cases to do this but here again I feel that communication between the Dom and Sub is the key. Most Doms (and, I assume, Masters) will be very interested in the Sub's well-being and will notice when this type of thing starts. I enjoy the pleasure my Sub gets from pleasing me but I also notice when she is pleased BY ME. If she started showing signs of being co-dependant then I would have to sit her down and have a serious talk with her. Here again I think it's the Dom's job to monitor and be ready to handle this if it does crop up.

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 2:46:11 PM

anopheles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OscarHargraves

I guess this goes back to the differences in Subs between an inteliigent Sub and a doormat. I have a Sub who is very strong willed when I'm not around and in control. She also doesn't live with me and that would make it easier to differentiate between co-dependance and inter-dependance.

Yes, it is going to be hard in some cases to do this but here again I feel that communication between the Dom and Sub is the key. Most Doms (and, I assume, Masters) will be very interested in the Sub's well-being and will notice when this type of thing starts. I enjoy the pleasure my Sub gets from pleasing me but I also notice when she is pleased BY ME. If she started showing signs of being co-dependant then I would have to sit her down and have a serious talk with her. Here again I think it's the Dom's job to monitor and be ready to handle this if it does crop up.

I wholeheartedly agree! A responsible Dom would probably in cases of severe codependence also at least temporarily release that sub from service and help them, through whatever means necessary to help them recover their sense of self.

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 2:50:50 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OscarHargraves

I guess this goes back to the differences in Subs between an inteliigent Sub and a doormat. I have a Sub who is very strong willed when I'm not around and in control. She also doesn't live with me and that would make it easier to differentiate between co-dependance and inter-dependance.

Yes, it is going to be hard in some cases to do this but here again I feel that communication between the Dom and Sub is the key. Most Doms (and, I assume, Masters) will be very interested in the Sub's well-being and will notice when this type of thing starts. I enjoy the pleasure my Sub gets from pleasing me but I also notice when she is pleased BY ME. If she started showing signs of being co-dependant then I would have to sit her down and have a serious talk with her. Here again I think it's the Dom's job to monitor and be ready to handle this if it does crop up.

Oscar,

What do you consider to be the signs of co-dependency? What should a Dominant look for and what should a submissive look for?

Knight's kyra

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/5/2005 3:28:40 PM

Elegant

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quote:

Oscar,

What do you consider to be the signs of co-dependency? What should a Dominant look for and what should a submissive look for?

Knight's kyra

Glancing at the back of my gold CODA membership card...

Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.

Low Self Esteem Patterns:
I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never "good enough."
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.

Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
I accept sex when I want love.

Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.
I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about.
I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.

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RE: Co-Dependency - 9/6/2005 6:01:40 AM

lonewolf05

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i will venture a guess that "I" can never become dependant on anyone since i grew up as totally independant for 50 plus years, and have no concept of it, nor have i figured anyone else is responsible for MY happiness. "I" am responsible for myself only.

wolf

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