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Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/2/2008 6:07:16 PM   
Willowmoon


Posts: 227
Joined: 9/25/2007
Status: offline 		There is currently talk in the group that I am part of about orgainising a BDSM retreat over the June long weekend. On the saturday night of this retreat there will be a formal high protocol dinner.

I am wondering if someone can explain this types of dinners to me, what is expected of subs/slaves, what tends to take place ect.

Willow
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/2/2008 6:11:04 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		That's a tough job to get gonig even in a fully stocked and private kitchen, let alone a retreat.  But here are some places to start:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_887934/mpage_1/key_dinner/tm.htm#888559
high protocol dinner

http://www.collarchat.com/m_817548/mpage_1/key_dinner/tm.htm#817577
formal dinner D/s style

http://www.collarchat.com/m_669831/mpage_1/key_dinner/tm.htm#669848
Formal ds dinner

http://www.collarchat.com/m_418155/mpage_1/key_dinner/tm.htm#418164
Former dinner rules

http://www.collarchat.com/m_346111/mpage_1/key_dinner%252Cprotocol/tm.htm#346111
High Protocol Dinner


_____________________________

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(in reply to Willowmoon)
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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/2/2008 6:20:00 PM   
SunnyTawse


Posts: 151
Joined: 11/17/2004
Status: offline 		I'll look forward to hearing the replies to this one - probably be split between Old Guard aficionados and those who say you can do whatever you want. Both are true, imho

Such dinners I've been to have had very unobtrusive service with servers dressed in black pants/skirts and white shirts. They observed the formal etiquette of serving from the diners' right and taking finished plates from their left. They called everyone Sir or Ma'am. They didn't visit or smile with anyone. When not serving, they were out of sight, except for the - what's the head person called? I forget. That person stood just outside the kitchen, looking more like a statue than anything else, to keep an eye on how the dinner was progressing, seeing to anything that was needed, and yet didn't seem to be involved in the conversation in anyway. Very impressive.

Brandy

(in reply to Willowmoon)
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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/2/2008 6:28:56 PM   
SunnyTawse


Posts: 151
Joined: 11/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SunnyTawse

I'll look forward to hearing the replies to this one - probably be split between Old Guard aficionados and those who say you can do whatever you want. Both are true, imho

Such dinners I've been to have had very unobtrusive service with servers dressed in black pants/skirts and white shirts. They observed the formal etiquette of serving from the diners' right and taking finished plates from their left. They called everyone Sir or Ma'am. They didn't visit or smile with anyone. When not serving, they were out of sight, except for the - what's the head person called? I forget. That person stood just outside the kitchen, looking more like a statue than anything else, to keep an eye on how the dinner was progressing, seeing to anything that was needed, and yet didn't seem to be involved in the conversation in anyway. Very impressive.

Brandy



Hey, let me in here for a minute! <elbows Brandy aside> Sheesh! Use my computer and then steal my thunder! LOL

That was my dinner she was talking about. I thought it was a huge job to pull off, even though it ended up being lots of fun. But I'm telling you, the two weeks before the dinner were nothing but labor and toil, even given that I had a slave and two submissives helping me.

I would definitely recommend you get someone who's done it before to organize the thing. Not eveyone has the linen and crystal you should really set the table with, and not everyone understands the courses. I sure couldn't have done it by myself. As a matter of fact, this was 12 years ago, and I haven't done it since.

Although... Athenor had a lovely formal dinner a few months ago. But I only had to enjoy it; I didn't have to clean for it or instruct the submissives or prepare for it in any way.

Are you going to have access to everything you need on retreat?

Sunny Tawse
Sadien Domina
Archon of Rings
http://AthenorLodge.com


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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/2/2008 7:23:39 PM   
mitda


Posts: 26
Joined: 6/17/2007
Status: offline 		W.we are taking part in an HP dinner next month in which the subs/slaves will provide French Service- each s-type will be responsible for one part of the table, for instance.  After which the s-types will entertain the D/O/M types in various and sundry ways.

(Being that i used to do it for a living, i'm getting off easy with the entertainment portion-- i get to read erotica)

Good luck!
mitda

She writes a blog

(in reply to Willowmoon)
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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/2/2008 11:11:06 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ah, the world famous "replating frozen TV dinners" debate!




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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/3/2008 12:19:07 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Willowmoon


I am wondering if someone can explain this types of dinners to me, what is expected of subs/slaves, what tends to take place ect.

Willow


I'd strongly suggest asking the people who are going to be hosting what the rules are this event. I don't think the rules are exactly the same for everyone.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/3/2008 4:42:45 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Willowmoon

There is currently talk in the group that I am part of about orgainising a BDSM retreat over the June long weekend. On the saturday night of this retreat there will be a formal high protocol dinner.

I am wondering if someone can explain this types of dinners to me, what is expected of subs/slaves, what tends to take place ect.

Willow


What I've found in general is there are a lot of dinners that are *called* formal or high protocol that are neither.  My assumption is that you are talking about a dinner that is as close to a traditional formal dinner (see Emily Post) as humanly possible (especially in an American culture that seems to love those fugly crocs).

Imagine organizing a five course (at minimum not including palate cleansers) meal that appeals to the bare minimum of peoples palates, is flexible enough to adjust for food allergies (which there *will* be) that you can FIND two to three people (at *least*) to cook it approprately.  Then you have to find *and* train people who have no real food service experience on how to stay on their feet for several hours.

This doesn't even include issues of decor, equipment to serve the food on, equipment to cook the food on, or appropriate locations.  And I'm not even going into the minutia of issues or details that could possibly be faced.  Thats just the begining basic issues to consider.

I did a formal D/s dinner last year and the sheer intricacy of it was fascinating but also exhausting - there are so many things I could say or suggest but I'll simply include the link to the dinner which includes a writeup and some pictures at: www.wildfleurs.com/sumptuous

C~

Edited to add: a traditional formal dinner also has hors d'ovures and pre-dinner apertifs (or non-alcoholic beverages) which is a whole second event to consider staging.  And more cooking, equipment, training, servers, headaches, etc, etc!


< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 2/3/2008 4:45:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

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The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/3/2008 5:16:44 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		<never mind>


< Message edited by CalifChick -- 2/3/2008 5:18:21 PM >

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AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/3/2008 5:18:21 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Ah, the world famous "replating frozen TV dinners" debate!





Emerson?  Thoreau? and who else?  I can't remember....

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/3/2008 7:15:12 PM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline 		This might help.

http://members.aol.com/SRABANDE/MastersDinner.html

Good luck!

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"



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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/4/2008 6:40:15 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		LaM,

There are some great ideas on that site but it also highlights the issues about doing these sort of dinners.  Not everyone treats their partner in the same way.

quote:

  (This is where we get to the submissives.  Remember them?  They are probably sitting on the floor next to their partners.)


This doesn't work for me, chances are my woman is a far more interesting person to talk to than others, which is one of the reasons I adore her.

Plus, some couples are not going to want another woman serving their partner.

Or another way to look at is "this is MY dinner, these are MY rules, and if you like them, please RSVP, if not, I look forward to socializing another time"

Both work on some level but if the dinner is meant for a group, the latter is less acceptable.

(in reply to LaMspeach)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/4/2008 7:17:01 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You can't have each submissive serving their own dominant. There simply won't be room enough for all of them to walk in and out of the room with plates at the same time.

The best advice I can offer is go to the top French restaurant in your city and order the tasting dinner. And take notes on the number of courses, the number of plates and silverware and crystal needed. How often the server comes to your table to fill water glasses, refill wine glasses, crumb the table before dessert, as well as bringing food and removing plates, and just walking by to see if you need anything without interrupting you in any way. In addition you will need starched linens, the knowledge of how to fold napkins decoratively, how to carve vegetables in uniform and decorative pieces. Plus small muslin bags to wrap lemon halves in, chop frills if serving chops.

And one of the hardest things to find is someone who can carve well. To learn how to carve requires a great deal of practice. Residn yourself to buying and cooking a standing rib roast or turkey daily for a month to gain carving skills. You can get a jump start on it by paying the above mentioned restaurateur to give you carving lessons, if he'll agree.

Renting tables, china, silverware, crystal, linens is possible but pricey. Price all of this out ahead of time and make sure every one will share in the cost if you can't float it.

And make sure the details are known to all at the time of invitation. You don't want someone coming in and being upset that they are separated from their partners for five hours. Plus you need kitchen space large enough not just for all the workers but also to feed the staff. Or do you expect them to work at the pace required without food and water all evening?

And clean up could take longer than expected so submissives should arrive separately from their dominants, arriving earlier and leaving later. Which also needs to be communicated ahead of time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/4/2008 2:41:46 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		As someone who enjoys fine food, has eaten at Chez Penisse enough to find it in the dark, and who has done formal dinners for 16 in my home, I know a bit about "formal dining".  Few people have formal service (meaning plates, silver, and stemware) to host a dinner large enough to make serving it a problem and even fewer have the financial means to rent enough to do so.  Considering how cheap most bdsm people are, making an event like this come even close to paying for itself is laughable.

More importantly, I think what most of mean when we say "formal dinner" is something that involves integrating D/s dynamics in some entertaining way into an evening of dining and socializing. 

Here is an upcoming event in SF, for a simple dinner it is $50 per couple.

http://tribes.tribe.net/mastersden/thread/dfd44e87-7017-4ee3-856c-e369d4354279

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Formal/ High Protocol dinners - 2/4/2008 3:22:56 PM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

LaM,

There are some great ideas on that site but it also highlights the issues about doing these sort of dinners.  Not everyone treats their partner in the same way.

quote:

  (This is where we get to the submissives.  Remember them?  They are probably sitting on the floor next to their partners.)



Michael,
I simple posted the site as a tool for Willowmoon to use for ideas. I like the some of the ideas and others I don't.

As with everything you should take what you like and leave the rest.

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"



(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 15
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