On "Moderation" in all things ... (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:03:18 AM)

Ok, some of this crap has been rolling around in my head for years ...

I have been on the CollarMe forums for a long time.  I haven't always been as active as now, and have had periods of time when I was very active.

I've also been on other forums, and think I have a pretty high level of experience with them.  I've even run my own forums.  So I like to think I have a fair understanding of what it takes to provide some level of oversight, guidance and control of a bunch of often unruly, sometimes brilliant, and always opinionated posters.

I have to say that I think Mod XI (whether she is a he, or whether s/he is a regular poster otherwise) does an outstanding job of maintaining a high level of professionalism on these forums.

Is she perfect?  Do I always agree with her judgment calls?  Is she biased to one political agenda or another?  Does she have her likes and dislikes when it comes to certain posters and their behavior?

Damn right.  And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Because, although I may disagree occasionally, although she may from time to time act with greater haste than I might like, she has shown me that she cares, and is human, and works seemingly tireless in a thankless job that would wear out the patience of Job.  And I'm glad she's willing to take up that burden, and is able to execute it to the degree she does.

She's is human, therefore she has biases and her own unique point of view, but she's not an automaton.

She also operates under a system that many posters fail to understand, or that they can express it words but do not seem to grasp in their operational activity in this medium.  In other words, they understand intellectually, but not emotionally.

Some important aspects are:

1. "Free speech" does not exist on these forums.  Never did.  Never will.

I think a lot of people do ... kinda ... understand this, after it is explained to them the difference between the US's constitutional right to free speech only applies to government entities attempts' to control speech, but even so, the cultural beliefs on the issue often leads us all astray as to what this means on a day to day basis, and leads some of us to feelings of anger and self-righteousness when we are personally confronted with such "control" issues.

2.  The TOS - Terms of Service - do not (and can not) cover ever type of behavior that will draw the negative attention of a moderator.

A second piece of cultural baggage that often confuses people is a sense of legalism.  Especially Americans are use to being able to refer to a written rule or law, expecting to see every condition and situation governed by a clear prescription for action, and ... importantly ... being able to argue "injustice" if they believe for some reason that such a rule is morally incorrect.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

There are laws that govern this site. And CM's moderators first loyalty and responsibility is to ensure that their site does not violate those laws, so that the sites very existence is not threatened.  And since the interpretation of those laws changes from time to time, as people in the justice and political system changes, as court cases are pressed and decided, as new laws are purposed and passed, they have a vested interest in erring on the side of safety first, above all other considerations - in order to survive.

The Terms of Service are often times vague and open to interpretation because the laws are often times vague and open to interpretation.  The CM owners (and therefore moderators) actions may sometimes seem capricious and mercurial, because the legal and political waters they must navigate are often capricious and mercurial.

  This leads to the next point:

3.  Moderators can take whatever actions they wish in order to maintain what they deem as acceptable behavior on the forums (as long as the owners allow them).

Simply put, this means that there does not have to be a violation of the TOS in order for a moderator to take action.  They do indeed have another responsibility: to encourage interaction and client use of the system in order to improve their site - be it for commercial reasons or for purely personal agenda's of the owners.  (After survival, success is a goal, however the owners and moderators wish to define it.)

The fact that the mods and owners make an attempt to put their "rules" and methods of judging posters' actions - such as the recent "no intentional and malicious thread hijacking" admin post is only an indication of their desire to follow the cultural rules mentioned above, and to give fair warning when new and obviously dangerous form of behavior starts to rear it's head.

It's a courtesy, nothing more.




Now to some specific issues that I've seen or heard over the years.




First, as most regulars know, I tend to be on the "conservative" side of most political and social issues.  Or, at least, that is how I am perceived.

One of the complaints I've occasionally heard is that Mod XI seems to favor the "other side" of the issues, and therefore seems to be more actively engaged in muzzling and warning posters on "my" side. 

*shrugs*

For a long time, I held my conclusion about the validity of this belief in abeyance. 

I understand that any one poster has only a limited level of experience, and that a poster is not privy to all the interactions that the moderators sees, due to:
1. the private nature of "warning" emails,
2. moderation of posters who then choose not to continue posting once they have been officially censured,
3. the removal of posts and threads by the moderators which caused moderation,
4. the overwhelming number of threads and posts a moderator must review, and
5. a lack of knowledge of whether or not a moderator had received a complaint by other posters.
I will say that for a long time it appeared as if a "conservative" poster did receive more than their fair share of attention, although the reason was just a guess.  My tentative conclusion was that it was likely due to an unconscious bias on the moderators part, but I was more than willing to concede that it could also be due to an active "complaint" process on the more "leftist" side of ideological divide, or even a false appreciation of the situation based on my personal political and ideological beliefs (My own biases, in other words).

Regardless, any bias was not total, as there was enough times that I saw "the other side" take hits, even if I thought the balance was uneven.

But in the last few weeks, I'm much more convinced that - even if there was an unconscious bias before - close attention is being paid to all posters, regardless of political or ideological positions.

Mod XI - for whatever reason - has been particularly active in the moderation and warning department over the last several weeks.  I've even been on the receiving end of the process, and was in moderation (after three personal warnings in the same thread, I'll admit).  But interestingly enough, just about every single "problem poster" - as I had defined them in my own mind - had also been moderated, or simply stopped posting or stop posting the "garbage" that had seemed to constantly dribble from their fingers.  Why?  Dunno.  But the results speak for themselves.

I'm willing to believe that whatever factors may have lead some to the conclusion that a political bias was operational on the part of Mod XI are incorrect.  And that the political discussions are much more civil and entertaining as a consequence.

Chalk up a win for Mod XI.  She has my support.



A second issue that often rears it's head is that of "cliques".   The term that sticks in my mind, and that I find hilariously appropriate as an example that was coined by kittinsol  as the "Bigmouth Submissive Collective". 

Social cliques are part of human nature.  Being part of a clique is really neither good nor bad.  The term "clique" generally has a negative connotation, used by someone who isn't part of the social group, and is unlikely to become part of it, but the bottom line is that it is a group of people who find comfort and validation in associating.

There are core members of such groups, and there are people who come and go, and there are people who are mistakenly believed to be part of such a group when they are not, and finally, there are people who do not believe themselves to be a member, yet are perceived as such by others.

When such a social group reinforces what the owners and mods seek for CM forums, or at least are neutral to the goals of the forum, then there is really no reason to take any action.

But occasionally, such cliques end up adopting an anti-social or even pathological attitudes which are destructive, and/or are counter to the perceived goals of the owners of CM.

What to do?

The problem is that not every post, or every person who posts in support of such a group intends to be destructive - they are just "joining in the fun" for the moment.  Members of the group validate and reinforce each other, making it more difficult for them to realize that their actions may be seen by others as less than appropriate or destructive.

There are no courts here.  There are no boards of inquiry, or police investigators.  But order must be maintained, and warnings and moderation are the only options.  See items 1 through 3 in the first part of this novel.

If you are caught up in that, then my advice is to backup, cool down, and remember ... fair or not, you have been close enough to the events to be tagged, and you can either live with it, take extra effort that you earn your reputation back ... or you can just leave.



Third (and final!) issue:

Words hurt.  Not invested emotionally?  Bullshit. Absolute and total Bullshit.

I've seen the sentiment (or something close to it) of "Words are just words, I'll say whatever I want, if you feel hurt, it's just your problem." so many times (and even used it occasionally myself) that I almost laugh every time I see them.

Words always have an emotional impact.  The question is really whether they were meant to hurt or not.

And that's the hard nut to crack sometimes.

We can't always take responsibility for how others will react or feel about our words.  We generally assume some level of maturity, and ability to withstand a normal range of emotional states.

But words can be bullets, fired in anger into the heart and soul of someone we are speaking to.

Fired in anger, fired in an attempt to drive someone into an emotional frenzy and to cause them pain is rarely going to meet with the approval of the owners and moderators here, nor should they.

Do you speak with the same emotional and destructive words of anger or sarcasm or belittlement to a child, a mentally handicapped person as you would with a co-worker or another member of your social group, when you are upset?  Doubtful.  If you do, then you have a problem.

Does almost every post you submit contain dismissal, hateful sarcasm and belittlement?

Then you have a problem.

Context and personality is important ... but again ... there are no courts, no boards of inquiry and no investigative resources beyond an overworked and harassed moderator or two.

As adults, it's expected and understood that occasionally, even the most careful and principled poster may temporarily "step over the line" - even if we don't always know where Mod XI will place that line.  But when we do, a "gentle" warning is what we receive.

Arguing about it won't get you anywhere.  See items 1 through 3 in the first part of my novel.

Damn.   More to say, but I'm late in going somewhere.  What all this comes down to is an appeal to those who complain and find fault in the methods used by those charged with moderating this forum.  Quit your bitching; Mod XI is doing a fine job.

You can wait for the book.  It'll be out on Amazon in a couple of years. 

Firm





CuriousLord -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:05:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You can wait for the book.  It'll be out on Amazon in a couple of years.


Could just knock up the font and spacing a bit and be good to go.  ;)




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:08:08 AM)

All things in moderation are ok therefore posts should really be kept short by the same logic.[8|]




MissHarlet -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:08:45 AM)

Yesssss to all of the above !!!




GreedyTop -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:10:40 AM)

:: standing ovation::




pahunkboy -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:13:12 AM)

I run a few yahoo groups. 

Someone always complains.

I think to myself- this isnt paid- nor is my time.  It can be a thankless job.  

I found- one has to have rules to be non-spam, non-mean- and casual enough to be fun. as folks will click elsewhere.  [just my experience-not an assessment of here]

as for here- the threads are the proof one way or the other- the attendance of the posters or not- that measures the situation.




Level -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:15:40 AM)

quote:

1. "Free speech" does not exist on these forums.  Never did.  Never will.


True, Kentucky. I look at it like we're guests in someone else's home.
 
Free speech exists, but you can't come into my house and say anything you want.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:22:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I've seen the sentiment (or something close to it) of "Words are just words, I'll say whatever I want, if you feel hurt, it's just your problem."


Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me.

Yeah well tell that to the man that inappropriately used an electric pencil sharpener after someone stuck a label saying "Fleshlight" on it.

It's not big and it's not clever[8|] 




DomKen -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:34:50 AM)

I'm a mod on another forum with much less traffic than this one and IMO Mod XI is a very light hand with the modding. Complaining about her moderation seems lucicrous considering the threads she lets go on and on and the number of times topics get brought back up after the previous thread got deleted/moved. I'm personally amazed that she gives out as many short term moderations rather than just banning posters for some period. Having to approve every post by everyone on moderation has got to significantly increase her workload.

One suggestion to the mods here is that an update to the ToS or an FAQ including some examples of subjects that are considered off limits would help a lot, at least here in off topic. A description on what can and cannot be discussed in regards to the euphemistically labeled unmentionables would be specially helpful.




kittinSol -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:37:25 AM)

First time I get to read an academically constructed essay on the subject of free speech, cliques and the power of words on collarme.com.

I think it's quite brilliant - is your conclusion that we have to moderate ourselves, and that if we can't, to expect whatever the moderators give us :-) ?

On the subjects of cliques: cliques are common, but cliques are usually heinous, because they operate on the basis that any outsider to the clique is a looser. If individuals wish to integrate a clique, it's fine by me, but they should expect that lone rangers will take snipes at them on occasions.





laurell3 -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:39:02 AM)

FR:  To be correct free speech doesn't just apply to governmental entities, there are plenty of private entities that are bound by it because of government funding, however, clearly that does not apply here although it does seem to be brought up quite often.

I agree with the rest of your post, although again, I would caution people to really consider whether something is personal before reacting whether it's the Mod or another poster as that seems to be causing some of the ongoing drama.

Great post!




domiguy -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:43:32 AM)

During my time on moderation it has given me plenty of time to rethink many of my strongly held positions and to hopefully alter those beliefs and to act with more responsibility as I head into 2008.

I have founded a new religion..."The Church of Moderation."

Come to Domiguy. And you will all be saved.

I wrote this previously for another thread but I thought it held some relevance here.

I now have found the "true" path. I have spoke and seen the Lord and the light and I have been healed.

"I implore all of you to explore Moderatism...You can partake in any activity that you see fit just not all of the fucking time. It would do many of you a world of good to adopt Moderatism to your current belief system. The shit you currently believe in really hasn't made much of a positive impact upon your lives...Just look at you!

Within the sacred writings of "The Book of Balance" I'm sure you are all aware of Domiguy 5:14 ...The Lord came down to address the sub who had been impregnated by her master....The sub experiencing great emotional turmoil over whether to keep an unwanted pregnancy sought out the council of her Lord. The Lord came to her in the form of a hobo...The lord spoke, "child why do you call my name?" The sub cowered in fear but softly spoke, "My lord I don't know what to do? Is it wrong to end the potentiality of what is growing inside of me?" The Lord smiled and spoke to the sub, "have you ever had a pregnancy end with an abortion before?" The sub replied, "no." The Lord grinned and then took a healthy slug of some cheap wine that was in his coat pocket, "Then you have nothing to worry about. You just can't go around having abortions willy nilly all over the place...'Twould not be in moderation and therefore not very cool. Now make haste and go to that clinic down the street and take care of this matter once and for all." The sub hugged the Holy Hobo and went to the nearest ATM to make the required withdrawal....And it was good.

Though the book is a bit wordy, similar verses can be found exploring everything from sex, work, to heroin use....There must be a balance to everything....So go forth, prosper and multiply....But no more than two kids."




GreedyTop -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 11:45:26 AM)

[awaiting Domiguy's post]

Again.




Real0ne -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

1. "Free speech" does not exist on these forums.  Never did.  Never will.


True, Kentucky. I look at it like we're guests in someone else's home.
 
Free speech exists, but you can't come into my house and say anything you want.
]

How naive! 

Before popping on here I just came from a board where the dude declared war on the federal government, not to mention the rest of the post where he really got down.  Name calling, (often times truly deserved), flaming, anything goes.  Everything but porn and spam etc is allowed.

You all just have a narrow view based on some sanitized and bastardised version of free speech.

Free speech is only free when it can be said even if other ears do not want to hear it.. 

Suffice to say those who feel they have the right to censor free speech are in favor of violating the the 1st.

Now you wanna come to my house you can say any damn thing you want with exception to threatening me with bodily harm which would most likely get you shot.

Ky, an even higher level of professionalism would be maintained if there were an unmoderated section where anything goes where the flames can fly.  The problem with playing nanny to flaming is exactly that "it requires a nanny".   no moderation beyond spam, porn and things illegal requires virtually no oversight and lets people follow through to a conclusion, and if not then they are out of the mainstram traffic.  Several boards are going to that method so they do not have to restrict the free speech of their users to maintain some "standard of speech" that in nearly all cases violates freedom of speech.

quote:

    5. a lack of knowledge of whether or not a moderator had received a complaint by other posters.


Yes the fun a few little bastards can with that one huh?  That is why I have suggested that they use the 7/10 user voting structure for post deletion, then the only time a mod needs to be called is for blatant violations of the tos.  Another suggestion I have made to take some of the load off th emods and keep the whiners at bay.

.




Sanity -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:37:29 PM)

At the bottom of this page it says that Collarchat is a "Free Speech Coalition" member. Just meaningless drivel?

And while it's true that we're guests here, we're encouraged to come in. It seems to me that we should be treated with at least some respect, and that's not always the case.




pahunkboy -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:45:11 PM)

getting an email from a mod is -- a downer. sorta like an overdue electric bill that you are pretty sure you paid.

i never heard of a free spech coalation.

im soon going to kill my fricken parrot.




laurell3 -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:46:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

At the bottom of this page it says that Collarchat is a "Free Speech Coalition" member. Just meaningless drivel?

And while it's true that we're guests here, we're encouraged to come in. It seems to me that we should be treated with at least some respect, and that's not always the case.



I've never noticed that and I'm not sure what it is, but I don't think it changes that the law doesn't apply to totally private entities.  Good catch though, going to check it out.




pahunkboy -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:47:32 PM)

http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/  --this looks like said group.




sweetwenchie -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:50:39 PM)

~fast reply~

Free speech is rapidly becoming passe'   Just an offhand thought, does anyone really believe a movie like Blazing Saddles could be released right now, or would it be banned for being racist, sexist, and quite a few other "ists".  We have become too sensitive as a whole, and i personally do not know if it is simply sad, or frightening as well.




TreasureKY -> RE: On "Moderation" in all things ... (2/3/2008 12:54:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

At the bottom of this page it says that Collarchat is a "Free Speech Coalition" member. Just meaningless drivel?


You could have at least looked it up, Sanity.

The Free Speech Coalition’s mission is to:
Lead, protect and support the growth and wellbeing of the adult entertainment community.
As the trade association for the adult entertainment we do this by:

  • Being the legislative watchdog for the industry  
  • Lobbying
  • Public education and communication
  • Member education and communication
  • As a last resort, litigation
While I agree that you could probably consider these fora to be entertainment, and they do certainly seem to be of an adult nature (most of the time), I seriously doubt that protecting our right to say whatever we want here with impunity was intended to be included in the Free Speech Coalition's mission statement.  [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

And while it's true that we're guests here, we're encouraged to come in. It seems to me that we should be treated with at least some respect, and that's not always the case.


You might not agree with how things are handled around here... I might not agree with everything, but I'd be hard pressed to make the intimation that we are given no respect.




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