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3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 4:43:08 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=40704  We need that in PA. If you watch this thru - this guy did more then donuts- they let him slide on  a felony.

I cant beleive some want to repel it.
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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 5:05:12 PM   
Feric


Posts: 227
Joined: 1/9/2008
From: San Francisco
Status: offline 		The repeal of the three Strikes Law has to do with overcrowding in California prisons. Some of the most up-to-date prisons in CA--like Pelican Bay state penitentiary--are currently stuffed to 3X capacity, with many cells using three-tier bunkbeds to hold the convicts. As would be expected, prison violence is up, and the Governator is talking about an early release of up to 13,000 nonviolent felons to ease overcrowded facilities. 

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 5:06:22 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		re-open alcatraz...crowdedness solved.

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 6:17:26 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		This is another waste of tax money. Make the guy pay a fine and restitution and move on to more important matters.

We have prison crowding because of the "war on drugs" - which is the stupidest shit I have ever heard of. I am not much of a drug user, but I can tell you that drugs themselves do not cause crime any more than caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, viagra, and valium do.

The "war on drugs" is just drug hypocrisy - some drugs are legal and therefore okay, others are not legal and therefore wrong. But really there's no discernible difference between many of these substances in terms of their effects. It just separates society into categories of people that could get prescription drugs (middle-class and white skinned folks in the main) and those that couldn't (the poorer darker skinned lot).


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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 6:31:18 PM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline 		That is one of the funnest things i have watched...

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 7:25:27 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I dont think this dude is as "reformed" as he claims....

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 8:49:17 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

This is another waste of tax money. Make the guy pay a fine and restitution and move on to more important matters.

We have prison crowding because of the "war on drugs" - which is the stupidest shit I have ever heard of. I am not much of a drug user, but I can tell you that drugs themselves do not cause crime any more than caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, viagra, and valium do.

The "war on drugs" is just drug hypocrisy - some drugs are legal and therefore okay, others are not legal and therefore wrong. But really there's no discernible difference between many of these substances in terms of their effects. It just separates society into categories of people that could get prescription drugs (middle-class and white skinned folks in the main) and those that couldn't (the poorer darker skinned lot).







Amen. The prison worker / correctional officers lobby is as gluttonous as the good folks over at the American trial lawyers lobby group.  

Next to the war on terror, jailing people for petty crap is the most disingenuous monetary drain on the hard-working tax payer.





- R







_____________________________

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 8:55:49 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

The prison worker / correctional officers lobby


That has to be oneof the most naive statements I've seen in a long time...it isn't the COs getting rich off the prison/industrial complex, and the guard's lobbying tends to be over things like protective gear and getting workmans comp for heart attacks suffered on the job.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 9:00:50 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

The prison worker / correctional officers lobby


That has to be oneof the most naive statements I've seen in a long time...it isn't the COs getting rich off the prison/industrial complex, and the guard's lobbying tends to be over things like protective gear and getting workmans comp for heart attacks suffered on the job.



Heh....You must work in a gun tower




- R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 9:58:10 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		The three strikes law is a bit more mandatory than most enhancement penalty statutes here, but the simple reality is they exist everywhere.  Here after you've been convicted of writing a bad check a second offense of anything over one dollar can be enhanced as a felony.  One would hope that any damn prosecutor or judge in their right mind would use such overly broad laws wisely, but sadly that's not always the case.  I'm always sceptical of these media stories professing mistreatment however, keep in mind they sell drama not reality.  Enhancement laws can serve great functions if used wisely and are a necessity for child sexual assaulters and other violent crimes.  However, they require some common sense in the system that's not always readily available.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 11:50:13 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I have no need to watch that. Three strikes is a bill of attainder, as is a driver's license suspension. It is all unconstitutional. Period.

T

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/3/2008 11:55:33 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

The three strikes law is a bit more mandatory than most enhancement penalty statutes here, but the simple reality is they exist everywhere.  Here after you've been convicted of writing a bad check a second offense of anything over one dollar can be enhanced as a felony.  One would hope that any damn prosecutor or judge in their right mind would use such overly broad laws wisely, but sadly that's not always the case.  I'm always sceptical of these media stories professing mistreatment however, keep in mind they sell drama not reality.  Enhancement laws can serve great functions if used wisely and are a necessity for child sexual assaulters and other violent crimes.  However, they require some common sense in the system that's not always readily available.

laurell:
Prosecutors get promoted based on felony convictions.  So you see they have a vested interest in three strikes and felony enhancements.
thompson






(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 6:52:59 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=40704  We need that in PA. If you watch this thru - this guy did more then donuts- they let him slide on  a felony.

I cant beleive some want to repel it.


I voted for the law many years ago.  I don't think it works.  A lot of people end up in prison for life for stealing a piece of pizza or something equally as stupid.  While others don't end up in prison at all.
My neice took my brothers route in life.  Drugs.  She has 9 felonies in the state of Washington where they do not have a 3 strikes law.  Recently she has moved to California...now according to the law shouldn't she be put in prison for life?

Something is wrong with the system...that needs to seriously be corrected.  While I don't necessarily want to see her spend the rest of her life in prison.  I also know she will not get any help or change until something drastic happens.  It's a waste of a young life at its finest.


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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 7:05:16 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

re-open alcatraz...crowdedness solved.


Actually Alcatrz is kinda small by todays standards. Back in the 1900-1940s when crime was at and alltime low in America it was suffiction, but now days you need bigger faclities and more high tech systems. Just retro fitting that place would cost more that building a new prision.

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RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 7:50:10 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

re-open alcatraz...crowdedness solved.


faerytattoodgirl:
Perhaps if you were to look into why Alcatraz was closed you might reconsider your position.
If on the other hand you feel that building more and more prisons is the solution then Alcatraz would still be a poor choice because of its relatively small size.
thompson






(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 8:14:10 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

The prison worker / correctional officers lobby


That has to be oneof the most naive statements I've seen in a long time...it isn't the COs getting rich off the prison/industrial complex, and the guard's lobbying tends to be over things like protective gear and getting workmans comp for heart attacks suffered on the job.




Heh....You must work in a gun tower






- R



Never been inside a prison and intend to keep it that way...have been inside the statehouse and seen who the real lobbyists are.  Your logic is as faulty as your conclusions.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 9:30:28 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

The prison worker / correctional officers lobby


That has to be oneof the most naive statements I've seen in a long time...it isn't the COs getting rich off the prison/industrial complex, and the guard's lobbying tends to be over things like protective gear and getting workmans comp for heart attacks suffered on the job.

Alumbrado:
The prison guards lobby is vehemently opposed to legalizing drugs,primarily marijuana, which speaks directly to job security as it would put about 70% of them out of work.
thompson






(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 10:42:45 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

The three strikes law is a bit more mandatory than most enhancement penalty statutes here, but the simple reality is they exist everywhere.  Here after you've been convicted of writing a bad check a second offense of anything over one dollar can be enhanced as a felony.  One would hope that any damn prosecutor or judge in their right mind would use such overly broad laws wisely, but sadly that's not always the case.  I'm always sceptical of these media stories professing mistreatment however, keep in mind they sell drama not reality.  Enhancement laws can serve great functions if used wisely and are a necessity for child sexual assaulters and other violent crimes.  However, they require some common sense in the system that's not always readily available.

laurell:
Prosecutors get promoted based on felony convictions.  So you see they have a vested interest in three strikes and felony enhancements.
thompson








Nah they also don't get promoted when they have bad press.  There's definitely a balance and a wise prosecutor will soon realize that the defense bar has quite a bit of power as well when it comes to their eventual careers. 

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 11:35:04 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

The three strikes law is a bit more mandatory than most enhancement penalty statutes here, but the simple reality is they exist everywhere.  Here after you've been convicted of writing a bad check a second offense of anything over one dollar can be enhanced as a felony.  One would hope that any damn prosecutor or judge in their right mind would use such overly broad laws wisely, but sadly that's not always the case.  I'm always sceptical of these media stories professing mistreatment however, keep in mind they sell drama not reality.  Enhancement laws can serve great functions if used wisely and are a necessity for child sexual assaulters and other violent crimes.  However, they require some common sense in the system that's not always readily available.

laurell:
Prosecutors get promoted based on felony convictions.  So you see they have a vested interest in three strikes and felony enhancements.
thompson








Nah they also don't get promoted when they have bad press.  There's definitely a balance and a wise prosecutor will soon realize that the defense bar has quite a bit of power as well when it comes to their eventual careers. 


laurell:
If we were to consider the gross numbers of cases involved and the very few which might attract media attention your argument looses its validity. It is common practice among prosecutors to "over charge" and then plead down but still keep the felony.  If you were faced with double life + 99 and then offered a plea of 1 year on a felony conviction with a good chance of probation and no actual prison time and your only defense was a public defender?????? What choice would you take? 
So it is in this manner that a prosecutor would gain felony conviction "notches on his/her gun" and get promoted.
thompson





(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: 3 stikes law in CA - 2/4/2008 11:43:10 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Well I work with them every day and I don't agree thomson and by the way here, it isn't really all that difficult for things to hit the press, although I recognize other places are different, being the one that gets publicly denounced for not using sound judgment is a death sentence for a political career in the legal field in my experience. 

Politics isn't truly such a oneway street.  It's not uncommon to see the highest conviction rated prosecutor be the first one to lose their job when the office changes hands.  Today's defense attorney may very well be tomorrow's county or district attorney.  Balance and dealing with the public and everyone fairly and representing the actual client, the people, seem to be much more important.  By the way, there are some people in the PD's office I wouldn't let watch my cat for an hour, there are some I'd rejoice that I got that caliber of an attorney for free.  Assuming because an attorney is free they are bad is not necessarily a wise assumption and yes if I was truly not guilty (which is rarely the case) no plea agreement would convince me to plea personally I'd roll my dice with a jury.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 20
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