Resentment Against the Military (Full Version)

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Faramir -> Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 6:16:10 PM)

Had a curious thing happen the other day.

Got an email from a female dom here asking about my slave - had I "really" collared her (since we lived in different states) or was it just an online fantasy. I answered: we have three days together, four days apart, moving in together next month, yadda yadda. Then I get this email:

quote:

"I just collared soccermomslave so she now belongs to Me!...P.S. It takes three american soldiers to make one Iraqie soldier and it is still an awfully poor soldier at that!"


SMS got a very nasty email from this person as well, and then the profile was deleted.

So no big mystery - someone here is so hurt that I whacked their little pee-pee in the forums they made a fake profile and sent nastygrams - someone who has a big stake in lifestyle creds and being "realtime 24/7" blah blah blah.

What struck me as very significant though is the last part of the final email - the dig on soldiers. It's an errant blow - I'm a US Marine, not a soldier, and I am no big supporter of current administration's foreign policy. But the person who sent it hoped both to hurt, but I am guessing gave vent to a real anger and resentment towards the military.

I've noticed this current lately - a supressed rage/severe resentment on the part of some people (almost exclusively liberals but by no means true of all liberals).

There was a time in America where you could hate and spew venom at servicemembers without any fear of condemnation or reproach. You could give full expression to your resentment at the testorone laden, tough guys who think they are the real men - you could at least verbally get back at a part of America that epitomizes conventional ideas of masculinity.

That's not true now. Now, you have to be circumspect - you have to hate the sin and love the sinner. You have to be all against The Administration - but still support the troops.

Now, I am sure there are people who are against the administration but have no animosity against our servicemebers (I'm sorta in that camp), but I feel there are a lot of peple who resent the fuck out of the US military, resent the presumed masculine superiority of servicemembers, resent the adulation they receive - little pussy boys and angry girls who hate Marines and soldiers.

Anyone else feel this vibe too?




Gauge -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 6:27:30 PM)

quote:

Now, I am sure there are people who are against the administration but have no animosity against our servicemebers (I'm sorta in that camp), but I feel there are a lot of peple who resent the fuck out of the US military, resent the presumed masculine superiority of servicemembers, resent the adulation they receive - little pussy boys and angry girls who hate Marines and soldiers.


I would not be counted among them. Soldiers gave their lives so I could enjoy the freedoms that I have. Why would I resent them or their sacrifice? Resenting the politics behind their deaths is a totally different story.




anopheles -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 6:35:19 PM)

Faramir,

I wonder if this same resentment presented toward men and women in uniform that was felt during the Vietnam conflict. Although the circumstances are not exactly the same, there are parallels, with this being an unpopular war, with goals that still are not completely clear to the American public, with no clear exit strategy being defined. I do not support the current administrations decision to go to war. The strategy, in my opinion was flawed and the the rationale based on suspect intelligence. However, I proudly support those brave souls that CHOSE (were not conscripted, as we have no draft) to fight for their country. Seeing our fighting men and women in uniform makes me damned proud. They signed up to do a job, and they are doing it to the best of their ability.

I don't get the feeling that there is a vibe against the soldier in the trenches here, personally, but more of a general tiresome feeling towards this current conflict. It doesn't seem that anyone feels that there is a goal to be achieved that we can hope for, so that we can have a day for our troops to come home and celebrate. Opinions may vary though....




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 6:57:36 PM)

quote:

I've noticed this current lately - a supressed rage/severe resentment on the part of some people (almost exclusively liberals but by no means true of all liberals)
Where in the world have you noticed this? Resentment toward the Military? I can say that I am in disagreement with the current admininstration and it's policies, but if there is one group I love/respect it is the men/women who wear military uuniform with honor. M




DesertRat -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 7:18:37 PM)

I can safely say I have not noticed this. At least, not coming from anyone with a healthy level of emotional maturity and stability. I've heard people go off on rants about those who serve our country, but not with any degree of rationality or credibility. I myself am neutral; I neither resent nor admire those in uniform. They're just people to me.

Bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

I've noticed this current lately - a supressed rage/severe resentment on the part of some people (almost exclusively liberals but by no means true of all liberals)
Where in the world have you noticed this? Resentment toward the Military? I can say that I am in disagreement with the current admininstration and it's policies, but if there is one group I love/respect it is the men/women who wear military uuniform with honor. M





Lordandmaster -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 7:33:45 PM)

The only time I hear about resentment against the military is when I read right-wing columnists. It's a non-issue.




UtopianRanger -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 9:13:01 PM)


I haven't really seen it on this site per se, but I can think of a very liberal college town a few hundred miles away that absolutely despises anything to do with the Military - It sounds like you've hit a nerve and they just can't shrug it off and walk on tall.


- The Ranger




DesertRat -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 9:21:06 PM)

Returning to the original post: It seems to me that you, Faramir, have incurred the wrath of someone who is a bit unbalanced. The emails you describe appear to be attempts to get under your skin. Considering the source, I would not consider this encounter to be a valid indicator of any kind of national sociocultural trend. You just crossed paths with a whacko.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Bob




Fndrywmn -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 10:43:07 PM)

I have not seen resentment towards servicemen, (my Master is retired from the Air Force and my son is a soldier) but actually the opposite. Gratitude for their service has been openly expressed directly to them from complete strangers.

However, it appears that there is a tide of unbridled hatred toward our President and total disrespect for the office and that saddens me. I also routinely encounter complete ignorance about how our government works.




IronBear -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/6/2005 11:44:53 PM)

Faramir,

No I done feel this here in Australia, but many of my US friends do and have been filling me in. I do remember the anti Military feelings in the US regarding Vietnam. They were as bad here too. I have vivid memories of the abuse I received when I visited the families of my dead troopers (not from their families but from neighbours). I was lucky in that when I returned to Australia, none knew where I’d been so I didn’t get the personal flack, but had plenty of disputes defending our own guys who were being paint bombed. My affection for the military both Australian and US has never waned and never will. Still I joined the ranks of the Old Codgers with memories of far off fire fights and stinking jungles which none one has any interest in these days which is also a good thing I think. Still even though I’m pagan, my thoughts and prayers are always with those in combat overseas and their families.

BTW I may enjoy taking the Mickey our of the Marine Corps (I earned the right to but that’s another story) but I never forget the times when they pulled my guys our of a whole heap of shit in ‘Nam and in other places. I hold the USMC in a high regard.




NakedOnMyChain -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 12:19:09 AM)

This is unrelated to the soldier thread, but I know exactly how you feel about someone taking offence to what you say, then going out of their way to say hurtful things. I told someone last week that I wasn't interested in them, and they went to the trouble of creating several fake accounts and closing them quickly just to send me nasty e-mails. I was already in a very low spot from a tiff that I had with a loved one, and that was pretty much the final straw. It hurt me very badly to know that there are such ignorant people out there that they don't care what they say to someone, even someone they don't know. It's ok to disagree with what people say. It's not ok to hurt them purposefully. It doesn't make themself, or anyone else a better person. So to anyone reading this, even if someone is being mean, either ignore them, or be polite. There's too much hatefulness in the world to spread more of it thoughtlessly. You never know someone else's situation.




darkinshadows -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 1:54:48 AM)

Greetings Faramir -

I am so sad to hear about the efforts people have gone through to try and pour tainted water on something that is flourishing. My love and thoughts go to You and SMS at this time, please forward her my prayers.

As for having issues with servicemen and women, well... I have been accused of being a liberal - and you know how much I adore labels...[8|] - anyway - I would say that for most people, especially the 'liberals' I am familier with, support the troops with full gusto.
The families, who are not always mentioned, have my full support as well. I don't think there is anything more courageous than people laying down their life in the protection of others.
What I am against is the hypocrasy of the governments and administrations for the excuses they use and the way they treat their men/women and their families.

I am not really sure what else to say. I would just like to see some of those men in suits go and do the jobs and collect the bodies and carry their commerades and bury their dead, just like servicemen from all ranks, units and countries have to do...

Peace and Love


quote:

...Why don't presidents fight the war
Why do they always send the poor...

SystemofaDown
B.Y.O.B




JohnWarren -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 3:54:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir
Now, I am sure there are people who are against the administration but have no animosity against our servicemebers (I'm sorta in that camp), but I feel there are a lot of peple who resent the fuck out of the US military, resent the presumed masculine superiority of servicemembers, resent the adulation they receive - little pussy boys and angry girls who hate Marines and soldiers.

Anyone else feel this vibe too?


One thing that has impressed me about the anti-war movement this time around is that they are distinguishing between the ones who set up the war and those who have to fight it. I haven't seen much anti-military sentiment at all.

My personal motto is "Support our troops; Get them out of Iraq."




JohnWarren -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 3:59:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fndrywmn

I have not seen resentment towards servicemen, (my Master is retired from the Air Force and my son is a soldier) but actually the opposite. Gratitude for their service has been openly expressed directly to them from complete strangers.

However, it appears that there is a tide of unbridled hatred toward our President and total disrespect for the office and that saddens me. I also routinely encounter complete ignorance about how our government works.


I'm pretty familiar with how the government works and the "disrespect" of the president might have something to do with the lies that were told to get us in this new Vietnam and the lack of support for the ordinary person that the he's shown. At least now we know why he fought to hard to keep the records of the meetings he held at the beginning of his term with oil company executives. Just check the prices on the pump and the quarterly reports on profits from those same executives.




frenchpet -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 4:33:43 AM)

quote:


My personal motto is "Support our troops; Get them out of Iraq."

You should be more accurate and make that "...bring them back home", because I feel you might not be totally satisfied if they leave Iraq for Iran. [&:]




Fndrywmn -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 5:33:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren




I'm pretty familiar with how the government works and the "disrespect" of the president might have something to do with the lies that were told to get us in this new Vietnam and the lack of support for the ordinary person that the he's shown.




I'm glad you're familiar with the government and hope you will work hard to support someone you can respect in the next election. Disrespect (or respect) for the office and for the person occupying it are different. While I may or may not like the person occupying it at the moment, the office itself is worthy of respect.




SirWaverider -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 8:30:08 AM)

Greeting Faramir,
I to have seen the recentment but not necessarily in the boards. I've noticed that some people hate or dislike our military for being overseas. they don't understand they are following orders. others hate our administration AND our military...why??? I don't know maybe because they lack the capasity to understand that we as the defenders of our country have orders to follow wether we agree with our commander and chief or not....I, My brother, am a U.S. Marine also. you and I and all our fellow Marines undersand what we do and why. WE signed the dotted line for a reason. WE are the very few that can still support our own and the other branches because we've been there. as far as your e-mails.....don't trip brother, ignorance is a trait for those who have never put their lives in harm's way. We don't have to agree with our administration....we fought for that right. but we should ALL support our brothers and sisters IN harm's way. "SEMPER FI" is a motto you and I have in our hearts. for those who don't know this...it means "Always Faithful" this to our country, our people, and our families....for Marines, the Corps IS our family wether we're active, retired, veterans. for get the unknowledgable morons that disrespect us...we never needed their support.....our military supports our own that's really all that matters. like the saying goes " It's a Vet thing...you wouldn't understand" lol




Faramir -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 9:00:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirWaverider

I to have seen the recentment but not necessarily in the boards.


I didn't mean here at the boards. I mean the kind of hostility I hear articulated by the radical left, and I suspect is secretly held by some more mainstream liberals:

Full Article

quote:

All Federation members and sympathizers, if they have not done so, should loan or purchase Noam Chomsky’s 1969 anti-Vietnam War classic, American Power and the New Mandarins. In this work, Chomsky delineated two strains of anti-war thought: 1) radical strains that repudiated the war on principle for its imperialist assumptions and original stated raison d’etre (all regardless of outcome or level of success) and 2) the pragmatic-practical liberal-bourgeois strains that escalated protest because the war became increasingly unsuccessful, prolonged, expensive, or politically costly. With slight modification, we can apply this model for analyzing the motivations of those who purport to be against war to the present imperial excursion into Iraq.

It is imperative that we not be hoodwinked and fooled by the unprincipled “anti-war” thought of organizations and characters like MoveOn.org and former partisans of Howard Dean and John Kerry. Equally important is the development of immunity to the nonsensical “Support Our Troops” mantra emanating from many center-right, liberal, and establishment left circles. Regardless of personal or familial ties, it is impossible to “support” direct agents and executors of a racist-imperialist war crime.


Consider this:

quote:

The second tendency of Racist Anti-war Thought (RAT, which is what it resembles) is the excessive emphasis placed on American troops, who in the past year have been directly implicated in systematic torture, humiliation of enemy combatants who have surrendered, and activities defined clearly as war crimes under the Geneva Conventions and international human rights law. The political devolution of sell-out filmmaker Michael Moore, who supported war criminal Wesley Clark for President before becoming a Ralph Nader-baiting partisan automaton for war criminal John Kerry, is a useful lens to examine this second RAT tendency. Moore deserved accolades for including brutal images of US military terror and its Iraqi civilian consequences in his recent film, “Fahrenheit 9/11.” Unfortunately, the overarching framework of that film and sell-out filmmaker Moore’s subsequent web site pronouncements and book projects leave much to be desired. Moore, like so many people in the center-right-liberal-establishment-left spectrum, places undue or total emphasis on American troops, but makes little mention of the far higher level of Iraqi civilian casualties and injuries the imperial project has caused at the hands of these very American troops.


I read an atricle at Slate last year where the author pined for the good old days in the 60's when you didn't have to constantly proctect yourself from opprobrium by protesting loyalty "to the troops."

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. It may be a very minor thread in American discourse - I wondered if other folks had gotten the same vibe.






DesertRat -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 9:12:42 AM)

Yeah! This is a big country...you can find any vibe you WANT here. You sound paranoid to me. Take a deep breath and let go of your fear. You're looking for something to fear, and you're finding it. If you decide to look for something else you'll no doubt find THAT too. At least that's how it sometimes works in my head. I can take the bit in my teeth and let all kinds of crap run away with me...or I can cool down and get some perspective on what it all means in my day to day life.

Bob




JohnWarren -> RE: Resentment Against the Military (9/7/2005 9:30:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fndrywmn


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren




I'm pretty familiar with how the government works and the "disrespect" of the president might have something to do with the lies that were told to get us in this new Vietnam and the lack of support for the ordinary person that the he's shown.




I'm glad you're familiar with the government and hope you will work hard to support someone you can respect in the next election. Disrespect (or respect) for the office and for the person occupying it are different. While I may or may not like the person occupying it at the moment, the office itself is worthy of respect.


Actually, it isn't. It's an axiom of the scene that "respect is earned."

Of course, people tend to respect those of their own party and somehow avoid giving that respect to the other side. The same people who were screaming for Clinton's political blood seem to be more than willing to overlook some very real current blood.

On that measure, I'm neutral. I thought Carter and Truman were innocents who should have been preachers, Nixon was a lying bastard who let Americans die because he was terrified of seeming weak. Grant was more interested in loyalty than in honesty, and Bush the First was bought and paid for by the special interests. The present Bush is outstanding only in that he combines the failings of each of the above.

The "office of president" is a job. There's nothing particularly honorable about it and given that it's an elective office, there's a certainty that the holder has probably sold part or most of his soul to get there.




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