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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 9:20:49 AM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet
We dont ask for or expect special treatment..... we do expect the same respect you would give anyone else. We do expect recognition that we are intelligent. We do expect emotional support from family and friends... and we expect all of the above because we are giving it to those around us .. disabled or not.  We havent become less careing ... less supportive to others ... less loving .....we are still exactly who we were before we were given these challenges ...

We have to make adjustments to our way of living ... but not to who we are.




Excellently put! I would also add:

We don't want your pity. Pity is useless and demeaning.

We don't want your sympathy. Sympathy tends to be self-centered and also useless.

We will gladly accept your compassion. Compassion spurs action, and action is useful. When Jesus healed, it is often reported that he was "moved with compassion." (With apologies to those who are not professed Christians, but who are probably more Christian than they think because their motivation and actions speak of their compassion.)


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Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 9:38:30 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Well, I still find it insulting in the extreme that someone would suggest temporary blindness or putting on a blindfold and experimenting as a way of understanding what the blind go through.  All I can say to that is WTF are you thinking?


For most of my adult life I worked with people who were ill: chronic illness, recovering from illness, terminal illness or the disabled.

At my last place of employment they put us through an excercise. each of us became disabled for awhile.
Some of us, were given headphones to stop us from hearing. Others of us were given blindfolds or the use of one of our hands was taken away from us...usually more than that.
I was given only the use of my left thumb...my other fingers taped down.
I was then expected to move small slippery disks  from one bin to another...as frustrating as that was...it was nothing compared to being given a paper with geometric shapes on it and having to trace those shapes while looking into a mirror...with my non-dominant hand.

We are all one accident from becoming disabled...or one illness, one syndrome, one condition.

Chances are we know someone who has some type of mental illness...I think the number is 1 in 5.

Can we afford to be judgemental?
Who are we judging?

edit for typo



< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 2/8/2008 9:41:43 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 10:06:08 AM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Well, I still find it insulting in the extreme that someone would suggest temporary blindness or putting on a blindfold and experimenting as a way of understanding what the blind go through.  All I can say to that is WTF are you thinking?


For most of my adult life I worked with people who were ill: chronic illness, recovering from illness, terminal illness or the disabled.

At my last place of employment they put us through an excercise. each of us became disabled for awhile.
Some of us, were given headphones to stop us from hearing. Others of us were given blindfolds or the use of one of our hands was taken away from us...usually more than that.
I was given only the use of my left thumb...my other fingers taped down.
I was then expected to move small slippery disks  from one bin to another...as frustrating as that was...it was nothing compared to being given a paper with geometric shapes on it and having to trace those shapes while looking into a mirror...with my non-dominant hand.

We are all one accident from becoming disabled...or one illness, one syndrome, one condition.

Chances are we know someone who has some type of mental illness...I think the number is 1 in 5.

Can we afford to be judgemental?
Who are we judging?

edit for typo




Apologies for quoting the whole post, but my reply is to both these quoted statements.

I agree on the whole with both, for this reason:

I was once speaking with a friend about an instance of intolerance I had experienced. I said, "I wish that person had to wear contact lenses that diminished his vision, and that he had to be strapped into a wheelchair. Then he would know what I'm going through."

This friend said something I will never forget. "But, if I were to wear contacts and be strapped into a wheelchair for a day, I would be doing so with the knowledge that at the end of the day I could stand up and take the contacts out. I don't have the context of knowledge that you have to deal with - the knowledge that at the end of the day you'll still be blind and in a wheelchair, and that will never change. It will be no more than a game to me, and I will learn some things, but not all of what you're going through."

I remember those words when people say they've been through sensitivity training and know all about what I'm going through. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for sensitivity training, but the kind of sensitivity my friend showed doesn't come through training: it is in one's character. Angelika and Katy, you show that kind of sensibility.

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Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 11:16:34 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		SOW, thanks... that means a lot.

jenn

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 11:32:30 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yeah, I get it as one of those diversity exercises.
I just don't think that walking around your house in a blindfold for a short amount of time will give you the experience of being blind, day after day.


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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 12:14:37 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantheart
As for me, I'd love to have a pair of wings, about 20 arms and grow approximately six more inches


I have it on good authority you are at a perfect height.

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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 12:37:58 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Yeah, I get it as one of those diversity exercises.
I just don't think that walking around your house in a blindfold for a short amount of time will give you the experience of being blind, day after day.



agreed.

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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 2:37:08 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Can we afford to be judgemental?
Who are we judging?



In a county where people rack up huge debt that they can't afford. Make decisions that ruin them financially and then cry about it, the question of 'can we afford to be judgmental is sadly irrelevant. People are going to judge. It's who we are and it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

Take the average judgmental person who makes a jackass comment about a wheelchair bound person and tell him "you should be in one, then you'd know what it was like." I can 'reasonably theorize' that his response would be "you mean I never have to get out of my chair and I get closer parking spaces and people always trying to help me and such? sweet!"

This reaction may not make sense to most, but to them it does. Because they don't grasp what ELSE it means to be in a wheelchair. They've never had to use a handi-bathroom stall or needed some other dispensation because they couldn't do certain things.

Also, the reason for such a reaction is just the way the world is these days. People are beaten down. WE ALL have problems. The grass will FOREVER be greener and many feel there's not a damned thing they can do about it. A person in a wheelchair knows what it's like to be in one. A person who is not in one only sees the 'perks,' as  it were. The closer parking spaces, the fact that you're always 'resting' by staying seated. Again, this is what they see, but not what is true or right. Where as most assholes would use the reply of "well at least they don't have to walk everywhere," they don't realize that a person in a wheelchair wants nothing more than to be able walk SOMEWHERE.

The basic point in all this is, no one but you knows the hardships you face. Expecting them to understand what you're going through is as pointless as expecting you will be able to make them understand it simply by telling them or by playing some game where they can't use their hands or whatever. We can't control the way people look at, treat, or react to us. All we can do is control how that affects us. I've been judged all my life. And for a good part of that life, I let it bother me. Now the only thing judgmental people tell me is that they themselves are insecure and are trying to feel better by tearing me down. It's funny to me to see their reaction when their tear-down attempt fails because they see that I just don't care. Really ticks 'em off.

I also think all of this can be attributed to over-sensitivity towards insensitive people. Comedians have been making fun of MANY things for MANY decades. We often point and laugh about things that arae different. That's how people are. Can you imagine seeing a comedy show where the star didn't poke fun at anything? That's the BASIS for comedy. There would be no comedians left. I reccommend watching Carlos Mencia's comedy special where he talks about routinely making fun of the handicapped (as with his de-de-deee line), and then does a charity show in a ward at a hospital. One calls him out for not doing his handi-jokes in front of them so he does one. And they laugh.....they laugh because they're just jokes. Then when he does an impression, they roar with laughter and someone says to a handicapped boy in the front row "he looks just like you!" And then that boy stands up, tries hard to spit out a sentence and says "That's not funny! I don't look anything like that....I'm not a mexican!!' And of course they all cheer with even more laughter because they got one back on Carlos.

I don't know when people began to define their lives and their nature by how others where struggling, but we did. Judging someone or making fun of them for a wheelchair is no different than making fun of someone wearing an ugly shirt, except that ugly shirt guy can change his shirt. The funny part, though, is that he doesn't.

I once heard the phrase, "If we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at." I love this motto and I add to it with the following: "I laugh at myself CONSTANTLY, therefore, I have cart blanch to laugh at anyone I see for any reason, because I know deep down, I'm probably just one bone-headed mistake away from lookin' just as stupid as they do."

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 2:42:50 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Well, I still find it insulting in the extreme that someone would suggest temporary blindness or putting on a blindfold and experimenting as a way of understanding what the blind go through.  All I can say to that is WTF are you thinking?

Katy,
Actually one of the first things that they told me when I went to the blind school was to go home and have each of my family members who were to care for me, blindfold themselves. No, it doesn't help them understand the day to day living for me, but my nephew was an excellent candidate for this test. He walked around the house, and then out to the backyard, where he quickly tripped over a rose bush. I remember I could still see distance at that time and I just sat down and laughed at him, not because he was "blind" but because he immediately ripped off the blindfold to see what he tripped on. I told him, wouldn't it be nice if I could rip off my eyes and see what I have tripped on? It definitely opened his eyes to the rough road ahead for me, but better yet, it opened my eyes to what was to become.

Hugs to you, and thank you for responding :)



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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 2:45:37 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		~~~~~~~~~~~~fr~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am back and have internet in my own place!! Bottom floor and windows low enough for my Shilo to look outside and bark at everything that moves, oh boy! <Big smile> I have some catching up to do. Hope yo uwill bear with me while I listen to what has been posted.

Hugs to all! <Happy Woman here!>

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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 2:48:03 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline 		Smith, that was a  beautifully-written and well-thought-out post. I agree about being able to laugh at oneself. I do it myself, and sometimes I get strange looks for doing it.

The problem that started this thread, however, is not the same as ridicule. What happened there (the apt. manager lying about the availability of an apartment) is out-and-out discrimination, and no one can be blamed vor objecting.

_____________________________

Bethical
Beat me, strike me, take away my reindeer! I'll never tell! -- Walt Kelly, Pogo Possum
I yam what I yam - Popeye

http://www.myspace.com/bethical_wheels


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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 2:50:36 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

We don't want your pity. Pity is useless and demeaning.


SoW,
This should be a bumper sticker. I love it :)

MoGa


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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:08:58 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

Smith, that was a  beautifully-written and well-thought-out post. I agree about being able to laugh at oneself. I do it myself, and sometimes I get strange looks for doing it.

The problem that started this thread, however, is not the same as ridicule. What happened there (the apt. manager lying about the availability of an apartment) is out-and-out discrimination, and no one can be blamed vor objecting.


Thanks for the compliment.

I've answered the original post already though. I don't think it was discrimination as another poster here has said the same - apartment managers aren't watching over a handful of units. Any complex has hundreds of apartments. It's quite possible that this manager 'thought' she had ground floor units available and found out upon looking at her books, that she did not. That doesn't amount to discrimination. Just like we all know an able-bodied person can't understand what a wheelchair-bound person is going through, the wheelchair-bound folks need not assume they know they are being discriminated against just because a thing doesn't go their way.

Hell, I can't imagine keep track of that many apartments at all, let alone knowing at a moment's notice what units are available and where. And if everyone pays $650 to live on the ground floor, it's not discrimination to be expected to pay the same price when you are handicapped.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 2/8/2008 3:09:21 PM >

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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:11:57 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		((((((((Brian))))))))) (for those who don't know pup's real name) What an excellent post! I am so very proud of you, my puppy. You have shown people the reason why it pays to stay in school and get a good education. I have no doubt whatsoever that if it came down to it, you would give your life for me. Thank you once again for just being you :)
 
Mistress

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RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:15:45 PM   
servantheart


Posts: 960
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantheart
As for me, I'd love to have a pair of wings, about 20 arms and grow approximately six more inches


I have it on good authority you are at a perfect height.


Thank You, Sir

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:19:30 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

I recommend watching Carlos Mencia's comedy special where he talks about routinely making fun of the handicapped (as with his de-de-deee line), and then does a charity show in a ward at a hospital. One calls him out for not doing his handi-jokes in front of them so he does one. And they laugh.....they laugh because they're just jokes. Then when he does an impression, they roar with laughter and someone says to a handicapped boy in the front row "he looks just like you!" And then that boy stands up, tries hard to spit out a sentence and says "That's not funny! I don't look anything like that....I'm not a mexican!!' And of course they all cheer with even more laughter because they got one back on Carlos.
 Smith,
Once a gain a great post. I wanted to comment on this. After a few weeks at blind school I was telling Helen Keller jokes, no one thought they were funny, so instead of asking how Helen Keller drives, I asked them..How do I drive now? and they asked how and I said with a laugh, "One hand of the steering wheel the other hand on the road". I had already told that joke a few times using Helen Keller, but no one laughed. The second I used myself in the joke they all roared with laughter. We love blind jokes, apparently some do not like blind jokes about Helen Keller, who could have been some's inspiration. <Shrugs> I didn't know. I always thoguht the joke was funny. But then again, I thought it was funny as a sighted person and as a blind one.
 
Thank you for making me smile today.



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Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:21:41 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

I don't think it was discrimination as another poster here has said the same - apartment managers aren't watching over a handful of units. Any complex has hundreds of apartments. It's quite possible that this manager 'thought' she had ground floor units available and found out upon looking at her books, that she did not. That doesn't amount to discrimination. Just like we all know an able-bodied person can't understand what a wheelchair-bound person is going through, the wheelchair-bound folks need not assume they know they are being discriminated against just because a thing doesn't go their way.


Smith,
As it turned out, this particular manager was being discriminative. I have a grievance filed against her and the complex at this time.
 
ETA:
quote:

Hell, I can't imagine keep track of that many apartments at all, let alone knowing at a moment's notice what units are available and where. And if everyone pays $650 to live on the ground floor, it's not discrimination to be expected to pay the same price when you are handicapped.
 
Once again, she did not say there was not an apt. available UNTIL I told her I would be bringing a guide dog in. THAT is when she "discovered" she had no apt. available. Please understand that the timing of her "discovery" that told on her, not her memory of whether she had one available. THIS is the iimportant part of my OP.



< Message edited by MistressOfGa -- 2/8/2008 3:24:30 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:24:58 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

I recommend watching Carlos Mencia's comedy special where he talks about routinely making fun of the handicapped (as with his de-de-deee line), and then does a charity show in a ward at a hospital. One calls him out for not doing his handi-jokes in front of them so he does one. And they laugh.....they laugh because they're just jokes. Then when he does an impression, they roar with laughter and someone says to a handicapped boy in the front row "he looks just like you!" And then that boy stands up, tries hard to spit out a sentence and says "That's not funny! I don't look anything like that....I'm not a mexican!!' And of course they all cheer with even more laughter because they got one back on Carlos.
 Smith,
Once a gain a great post. I wanted to comment on this. After a few weeks at blind school I was telling Helen Keller jokes, no one thought they were funny, so instead of asking how Helen Keller drives, I asked them..How do I drive now? and they asked how and I said with a laugh, "One hand of the steering wheel the other hand on the road". I had already told that joke a few times using Helen Keller, but no one laughed. The second I used myself in the joke they all roared with laughter. We love blind jokes, apparently some do not like blind jokes about Helen Keller, who could have been some's inspiration. <Shrugs> I didn't know. I always thoguht the joke was funny. But then again, I thought it was funny as a sighted person and as a blind one.
 
Thank you for making me smile today.




My pleasure. But I can't do his routine justice in text. You should hit Blockbusters and rent it. I don't know if he has more than one out, but you'll know you got the right one if he's wearing a white leather jacket. He starts the handi-joke set talking about waiting for 3 hours in line for an amusement park ride only to be cut off by a kid in a wheelchair. I won't dare spoil it by trying to do it justice here, but I was crying from laughing so hard.

He has a message that he gets out with his jokes too, if you can't tell your handi-joke in a room full of handicapped people, you shouldn't tell it. If you don't dare say something about a type of person with that type of person in the room next to you, you shouldn't say it. However, jokes are just jokes. They're all funny to someone, sometimes.

By the way, in the realm of laughing at ourselves, I do a great self-depreciating routine about the size of my nose and chin and how if I turn my head sideways, I could poke you in both eyes at once.....damn genes.

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 3:29:59 PM   
Smith117


Posts: 1447
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

I don't think it was discrimination as another poster here has said the same - apartment managers aren't watching over a handful of units. Any complex has hundreds of apartments. It's quite possible that this manager 'thought' she had ground floor units available and found out upon looking at her books, that she did not. That doesn't amount to discrimination. Just like we all know an able-bodied person can't understand what a wheelchair-bound person is going through, the wheelchair-bound folks need not assume they know they are being discriminated against just because a thing doesn't go their way.


Smith,
As it turned out, this particular manager was being discriminative. I have a grievance filed against her and the complex at this time.
 
ETA:
quote:

Hell, I can't imagine keep track of that many apartments at all, let alone knowing at a moment's notice what units are available and where. And if everyone pays $650 to live on the ground floor, it's not discrimination to be expected to pay the same price when you are handicapped.
 
Once again, she did not say there was not an apt. available UNTIL I told her I would be bringing a guide dog in. THAT is when she "discovered" she had no apt. available. Please understand that the timing of her "discovery" that told on her, not her memory of whether she had one available. THIS is the iimportant part of my OP.




Well, the truly discriminatory ones should have a grievance filed. I was not there so I played devil's advocate. I also played the advocate because of other things I've witnessed, not specific to handicapped folks, just in general. I've seen many people throw out the "they wouldn't let me do this just because I'm x,y,z." It gets really old after awhile and sadly, it takes away from the REAL cases where there IS discrimination. While discussion a racial topic on the radio, a host here talked about Sharpton and how he's a media whore who often looks for discrimination or racism when there really is none. And one day, there really WILL be a clear-cut case of it and he will speak out, but people will be tired of hearing his rhetoric because he so often seeks to make discrimination/racism cases out of nothing.

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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Paying To Be Handicapped - 2/8/2008 6:07:59 PM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		As a former Apartment manager .. of complexes up to 1200 apartments .. trust me you know exactly how many types of apartments you have and there locations all the time.. it is foremost in your mind all the time and you have constant meetings about it and are updated every time an apartment is rented.. its a big part of your job. 

As for wanting to rent them at any " cost " to speak .. that would seem to be the case but trust me even tho it is not " legal" there are owners and managers that do discriminate for many reasons ..and some think that the disabled are " lawsuits waiting to happen because of potential accidents"  if they are residents.

Ideally they wouldnt care who rented the apt .as long as it was someone that met their financial qualifications ... and for the most part it is that way .. but it is not always the truth.

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