Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (Full Version)

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sillyfrillyboy -> Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 4:21:03 AM)

First and foremost my intention here is not to state one way or the other about this subject but to simply ask some questions and ask for some feedback.

Coming from a male domminant household as most of us did my father, may he rest in peace, drilled into may head over and over again the belief that man are the kings of there castle. The way I saw this through him is that he felt it was his responsibility and not a God given right which caused him nothing but heartache in his life. With great power comes great responisibility and I firmly believe that the fact that he did not feel he could share this burden with my Mother contibuted to his short and not so joy filled life.

However the seed had been planted in my brain from a very early age so there is almost an involuntary cringe around this subject that I really dont like about myself. I have come to the understanding that these feelings do not stem from anything logical but more over an emotinal responce motivated by fear. Since I believe that it is impossible to find peace with fear in your heart when I notice it I want to iradict it from me body. The only way I have been able to do this is through open and non judgemental discussions about a subject. Allong those lines I think the following responses would be less the helpful in any discussion on this subject.

Any posts utilizing explitives ofcourse to me would be an indication of a fear based mind set in the responce. Any shaming would also be non constructive to open discourse about the subject as this tactic is often used when the persons point of view has very little substance and hence the the equivalent of threats of bodily harm (ie: When ever I am having a discussion with someone and they responce is "I am going to kick your bottom" my immediate thought is that the conversation is over now and this person has no logical intput to offer anymore). Not that everything is based in logic. We are one of the few creatures that rely so heavily on this skill that is quickly causing our own dimise so genuine emotional arguments would be helpful. Ok so on to my questions or things I would like feedback on.

Do women (the ones who follow this ideology) truly want to be in this elivated status remembering that with elivated status comes elivated responsibilities. Take for instance the guy asking a girl out and switch it into this new realm where women take the superior role of initiating romantic relationships. From a male point of view this is by no means pleasant as it opens you up to rejection constantly. Most men deal with this form of anxiety by objectifing women. It is much easier to be rejected by an object then by an actual person. So do female supremacist really want these responsibilities. There are more like providing for a family. Conflict resolution. War. Other nasty business that we humans have a tendancy to get ourselves involved in.

Is it truly satisfing to female supremacist to be submitted to? As a submissive part of what I find exciting is that I am giving something to the Domme or she is taking something from me. In a true female supremacist world these roles would already be defined and submission would be expected. There really would be no power exchange at all since an exchange is a dynamic thing. In anouther light I have always enjoyed the eastern phylosphies that talk of balance between the genders. In an ideal world niether gender would be contrued as being greater or less then the other but that the two people form a whole (yin yang) with the whole being better then the sum of its parts.

When any section of a population has been given a status over any other it has always lead to victimization. Simply look at Germany during ww2 and dont think that both genders where not involved in victimizing the "lesser" races. would this ideology not lead to similar occurances. Would not the opinions of the "weaker" sex be given less wieght since the have been proven to be inferior. Would not the perceptions of these people be based on gender just as it has been based on race in the past.

Is the information about men as being inferior to women in realms such as schooling genetic or is it cultural? Since our society has such strict rules about the genders could this not contribute to the problem. Growing up I liked guns and I liked barbies but one day the barbies went away and I was shamed into believing that society would reject a boy who liked barbies. Certainly my father would no longer love me if I did not "Man up" (ofcourse thats bunk because I know he could never stop loving me as I was his child but at the time I listened to his words and had not leanred to interpret them into 1930's speak which was when he was raised. In many asain cultures androginy is much more widely excepted and American Indians would give these people titles such as shamen (who where men who had female characteristics) these people where praised for there wisdom as they could relate to both genders and where seen as being in balance with nature. Also since men and women are almost genetically the same and since we all start out gender neutral could it be possible that the genders would be indestiguishable if indiviuals where allowed to follow there own path without the restraint of gender norms.

I guess thats some things I have been thinking about allot since entering into the community. I guess one could say I believe in gender neutrality where regarless of sex people can simply be what ever they wish free of judgement and shame. I imagine in world ruled by female supremacist a little girl being told to "woman up" or there mother will not love them anymore and no man will ever want them :). No because I say I believe this oday does not mean I will believe this tomarrow. Perhaps I will be swayed through discussions that the female supremacist point of view is right. In order for change to happen people must be open, honest and able to speak freely.

I love women. I really do. I find them fascinating and beautiful and sexy. They have soft skin and smell nice :). Many are more open to people who deleve into different gender roles like I do and even go as far as helping sometimes very zeliously:). I deffinatly think men can learn allot from women. How to express ourselves better (I dont care what people say about it being hard wired that men cant express there emotions) and even if it is remember that the human brain is not fully developed until the early 20's perhaps by not allowng boys to express emotions and the other ways in which they are treated may actually be retarding the brains grouth in certain areas. Perhaps many men would have just as man cross hemisphere nervs as women if we allow to play with our barbies. Dammit! :)

Anyways I would really love to read anyone elses opinions on this subject or the thoughts I voiced above.

respects as always to eh Ma'ams;
john
ps- Sorry about any gramaticle errors as I was going through the site and as a person who enjoys sissification (how many men just cringed yet if a woman wanted to trapes around in ruffle but panties and a french maid outfit who would be bothered by it) I run across this ideology allot so I really felt a need to post this because being new I started to wonder if a Domme could ever wuv me (yeah i know yuck) or I would run them off by asking honest questions so I may have made a few zillion erros cause I am tired and my contacts are already out.



Dnomyar -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 4:50:19 AM)

Yawn!



LadyEllen -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 6:01:24 AM)

Female Supremacy - nice idea in theory and one very hot fantasy I'm sure.

Problem is that whichever way its defined, its as impractical as any other method of organising society - the issues might vary in quality but I fear not in quantity. But then thats the answer, more or less, that you came to already?

E



sunshinemiss -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 6:24:09 AM)

Well, um, I didn't read it all because this is a message board, and all I could think was... "Has he finished the dissertation yet?"

You said:
First and foremost my intention here is not to state one way or the other about this subject but to simply ask some questions and ask for some feedback.
 
And then you go on and on ... and on... and on... stating one way and then the other about the subject... and for the life of me I found only 2 question marks in that novel. 

Now, it could be that you don't know where a question mark goes, and if that's the case, there are some excellent books available for you - May I suggest "Using Grammar" by Betty Azar.  The other possibility is that your statement in the first paragraph is a lie and this is an attention getting ploy. 

My opinion?  It's both.  Either way, you need an editor. 

peace



atursvcMaam -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 6:35:58 AM)

my apologies, my mind went blank when i had to scroll before i saw any point or question.  i did go back and finish, but my mind is still a blank.

KISS--Keep It Simple (fill in your own second S)



Shawn1066 -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 6:42:11 AM)

Female Supremecy?

It's the same thing as the ideaology of Male Supremecy, only it has a vagina instead of a penis.  It's just as wrong and just as stupid as every other ideaology where somebody is superior to somebody else over circumstances they can't control.

DV's Fox



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 8:28:33 AM)

tl:dr



LadyHathor -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 9:01:59 AM)

I actually have a post about this here in General, search on My name and you will see probaly the same responses that would happen here---maybe not--but worth reading--
 
I am a Dominant--I am not a female supremist--I believe supremacy of the right person at the right time for the right task.



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 12:47:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Yawn!

giggles... :)



Lashra -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 12:53:47 PM)

I do not believe in the supremacy of either gender, nor of color, nor of sexual orientation, nor of religion. We are all humans we all have flaws and some of us achieve greatness while others of us do not but one thing is certain we are all unique in someway. It is this belief that makes me cringe when people of a certain (name your group here)are all lumped into category.

Therefore I do not consider myself supreme but my sub may say otherwise.[:)]

~Lashra



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 1:00:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Well, um, I didn't read it all because this is a message board, and all I could think was... "Has he finished the dissertation yet?"

You said:
First and foremost my intention here is not to state one way or the other about this subject but to simply ask some questions and ask for some feedback.
 
And then you go on and on ... and on... and on... stating one way and then the other about the subject... and for the life of me I found only 2 question marks in that novel. 

Now, it could be that you don't know where a question mark goes, and if that's the case, there are some excellent books available for you - May I suggest "Using Grammar" by Betty Azar.  The other possibility is that your statement in the first paragraph is a lie and this is an attention getting ploy. 

My opinion?  It's both.  Either way, you need an editor. 

peace


ROFL.... I am such a dork Ma'am. Yeah thats is just like me :).... Its like the whole kitty thing... the kitty is trying to focus on something so hard... then theres lint... oooooooooh lint... Just ignore me. Yeah I do need an editor. I dont write copy that much and am more comfortable in photoshop or othe such tools.

I think what I meant by not wanting to state something on way or the other is just that I dont believe that my opinion is fact and that they evolve. Also that even I did feel one way it doesnt mean that I think the complete oposite is wrong.

Sorry if I got a little long winded everyone.

respects;
john

ps - So how this forum is so poorly coded that text fields do not all the built in firefox spell checker I rely so heavily on. Having a learning dissability spelling and grammer have always been difficult to me at university I did whorable in the English class that focussed on grammar made like a C but the other classes that focussed content I Aced. So I am good at conveying my opinion usually just not so good at proofreading it.



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 1:04:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

my apologies, my mind went blank when i had to scroll before i saw any point or question.  i did go back and finish, but my mind is still a blank.

KISS--Keep It Simple (fill in your own second S)


stupid... yeah I know. I think part of it is I let my meds run out and so my brain gets going a bit fast these days. I should be getting my refill today but its been like 2 weeks. hehe thanks for not saying the other S I know I am not stupid.. silly well there you go

oh oh oh keep it simple sissy

hehe..

john



Wickad -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 1:59:42 PM)

Greetings to the OP,

I did read your entire post and I have a few things to comment on.

Your first few paragraphs seem very intent on pointing out how stupid, ignorant, and simply irrelevant people would be for mocking or criticizing you.  This entire way of going about things smacks of insecurity.  If you only had questions and were not somehow heavily invested in being accepted for your position you would simply put your position out there and wait for responses.  You would dismiss the ones you felt were off topic or not helpful and take the others as they were intended.  Perhaps you should examine your real motivation for posting this thread.

You also seem to be labouring under some false presumptions.  Most of these seem to be based around gender differences.  It should be noted that the differences WITHIN a gender are GREATER than those BETWEEN the genders.  This means that from one end of the spectrum to the other of .... say, women, that the difference between the least ... emotionally intuitive woman to the one with the greatest emotional intuition will be greater than the difference between the average man and the average woman's emotion intuitiveness.  I also suggest you do some research on aboriginal cultures around the world.  Most societies, primitive or not, had a great deal of politics and bias involved in them.  Unlike the Victorians would like us to believe in the 'Noble Savage' figure, is just that ... a myth.

That all being done .... on to your questions....

I would like to take this time to state that I do not adhere to FS as put forth by many people.  In fact, I believe that men and women are equal until they chose to not be.

One of the main reasons that I am looking for a slave is that I do seek that type of responsibility.  I want to be responsible for someone else's welfare, their shelter and standard of living, and their sexual pleasure or displeasure.  These responsibilities, or even just the promise of them, make me want to be a better person.  I want to succeed in my chosen path and grow as a person so that I can both actualize my dreams of ownership and aspire to be worthy of it.  The idea that somehow this would lead to objectification and marginalization of an entire gender is a bit outside of the realm of my imagining.  The idea that it would lead to objectification and marginalization of someone who has chosen to submit to me ... well, that makes it really hot.

A power exchange is taking place in almost every relationship that exists and has existed.  Often these exchange goes back and forth depending on the topic, emotional stability, and phase of life that the two people are in.  The only time this power exchange is heavily tipped one way or the other is when the two (or more) people involved agree it is, explicitly or tacitly.  I do not feel 'short changed' by having a man submit to me.  Having a man submit to me fills me with pride, compassion, and arousal.  I presume people will do what I ask them to and most times I'm right - they do what I ask them to.  This does not mean that I'm a bully or that I feel someone has to do what I want.  If they chose not to then I'll simply do it myself or find someone that will do it for me.  It's no real 'skin off my ass' so to speak.  However, their refusal or acceptance does not effect my feeling of entitlement ... and I do feel entitled.

Men and women are not the same.  We are physically different due to genetics, hormones, and socialization.  This is not a nature vs nurture kinda thing because all of these factors effect who and what we are.  I recently had a conversation with a transgendered woman.  She had been a man and had gone through gender reassignment surgery about a decade ago when it was all still very new.  She had told me that her thought processes had changed when she started hormone therapy and that it had changed even more when the surgery was over.  Most women have some natural testosterone but due to her surgery she had none.  She said she had a hard time maintaining muscle mass as well as other complications.  This is an example of the profound effect of just changing around hormones can have on an otherwise 'male' body.  Men and women are different but that does not mean their value is different.  It also does not mean that owning one or the other some how makes that entire gender 'less'.

I love men for all the things they are - masculine, pungent, aggressive, linear, etc - but that does not mean that I don't want one serving at my feet as well.

Wickad



pixelslave -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 2:05:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyfrillyboy

Do women (the ones who follow this ideology) truly want to be in this elivated status remembering that with elivated status comes elivated responsibilities. Take for instance the guy asking a girl out and switch it into this new realm where women take the superior role of initiating romantic relationships. From a male point of view this is by no means pleasant as it opens you up to rejection constantly. Most men deal with this form of anxiety by objectifing women. It is much easier to be rejected by an object then by an actual person. So do female supremacist really want these responsibilities. There are more like providing for a family. Conflict resolution. War. Other nasty business that we humans have a tendancy to get ourselves involved in.


In my experience, most Dommes prefer to wait for a submissive male to ask them out.  In the context you've put it in, they like having the best of both worlds. [:D]
 
As to responsibilities, I think you may be taking this subject a bit too literally; having tried to make it exactly analagous to that of your father.  Think of Dommes as managers.  They use the resources available (subs) to get the job done in the most effective manner.  It doesn't mean the Domme even has to hold a job (something that was implicit in what you've stated above).  Instead, she only has to see that her sub(s) provides enough money for them to live on in the manner or style in which she'd be comfortable with.  I suspect, but can't say for certain, that many female supremacists believe that if women ruled the world, there would be no more wars as they'd be able to better resolve conflicts than men have shown themselves capable of.  I'm confident one will jump-in and correct me if I'm wrong. [&:]
 
 
quote:



Is it truly satisfing to female supremacist to be submitted to? As a submissive part of what I find exciting is that I am giving something to the Domme or she is taking something from me. In a true female supremacist world these roles would already be defined and submission would be expected. There really would be no power exchange at all since an exchange is a dynamic thing.


Since each relationship is unique, you'd still only be giving your submission to one woman or one primary woman.  How that would occur would be up to the two of you.  Thus, there'd still be a power exchange.  That said, I suggest you not talk about a "twue" female supremacist world, as it doesn't exist and isn't likely to anytime soon.  Each woman's vision of that would likely be different anyway.  Instead, talking about what female supremacy means to the women who participate here, would be more relevant and practical.
 

quote:



Is the information about men as being inferior to women in realms such as schooling genetic or is it cultural?


Good question!  I've always wondered the same.  Yet, I've noticed that Dominant Women in general, seem to have a way of channeling and directing men to keep them focused on what's best for them and the D/s relationship.  As with most relationships, the sum of the two of them working together is greater than 1 + 1, it's a very synergistic kind of thing.  But D/s relationships seem to be even more synergistic than vanilla ones.  A Domme on CM offered to explain more about it to me once, then she "poofed".  Consequently, I never got to hear the rest of her thoughts on how she believed it worked and what that kind of interaction could do for a man, as well as the couple, in female led D/s relationships. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image]
 
 
quote:



since men and women are almost genetically the same and since we all start out gender neutral could it be possible that the genders would be indestiguishable if indiviuals where allowed to follow there own path without the restraint of gender norms.


If a frog had a glass ass would it break every time it hopped? [8|]

quote:



I definitely think men can learn a lot from women.


Okay.  Ditto and vice versa. [&:]
 
 
quote:



How to express ourselves better (I dont care what people say about it being hard wired that men cant express there emotions) and even if it is remember that the human brain is not fully developed until the early 20's perhaps by not allowng boys to express emotions and the other ways in which they are treated may actually be retarding the brains grouth in certain areas. Perhaps many men would have just as man cross hemisphere nervs as women if we allow to play with our barbies. Dammit! :)


Each person's chilhood experience is going to be different.  You seem to be assuming all men had the same childhood as yours. [X(]

quote:


ps- Sorry about any gramaticle errors


Try composing your posts in WORD or Wordpad where you can run a spellchecker when you need to correct grammatical errors.  Shorter and more concise posts will also tend to get a meaningful dialogue started more quickly on the boards here.  Hopefully reducing your post to this response will get to the meat of what you brought up. [&:]
 
 - pixel
 



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 3:43:02 PM)

Good stuff thanks allot. I am more familure with blogs and blogging then message boards. I think that is why I get so wrapped up in it and it got so long.

Sorry everyone.

Also I am used to using an content management system that spell checks for me I will have to come up with some process for using this BBS.

Once again thanks that really helped explain some things.



LadyHathor -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 4:38:15 PM)

actually that little check mark under the abc in the post, reply box is a spell checker--



sillyfrillyboy -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 5:15:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

actually that little check mark under the abc in the post, reply box is a spell checker--


I think thats an ie feature only Ma'am. I run firefox... poooh.... Although in most text fields firefox works great with it own built in spell checker. I guess I could try using IE when I am on collar me forums.
thank you for the advice. respest;
john



ShaktiSama -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 6:47:22 PM)

To the OP:  I am sorry I cannot answer your post in entirety.  It is very long and I think it would be exhausting for anyone to even try to read a detailed response.

To answer the questions you asked (with a few spelling corrections):

1.  Do women (the ones who follow this ideology) truly want to be in this elevated status remembering that with elevated status comes elevated responsibilities.

In the first place, I must point out that the existence of Female Supremacist "ideology" within this community is very, very debateable.  As a person who has a professional interest in modes of human social organization, I assure you that the rhetoric, imagery and practice associated with Female Supremacy in the BDSM community do not qualify in any respect for the use of the term "ideology".

Female Supremacy, as it exists in BDSM, is a fantasy.  And it is a fantasy only.  As such, it is attractive to a certain number of sadistic dominant women and masochistic submissive men.  But there is no attempt or intention demonstrated by those who engage in this kind of roleplay to fundamentally re-organize society along matriarchal lines.

Feminsim, by contrast, is in fact an ideology, which does represent an attempt to fundamentally re-organize society, and to eliminate the state of patriarchy which currently dominates most of the globe.  As you point out, the overthrow of patriarchy will involve the elevation of women, and the exercise of power requires responsibility.

However, no one is required to accept grave responsibilities when two or more people enjoy a pleasurable sexual fantasy.  And since that is all Female Supremacy is, no assumption of real responsibility is required!  [:D]

Having made a distinction between feminism and female supremacy (as practiced in BDSM), I can safely point out the following:

--Feminism and female supremacy are neither mutually exclusive nor automatically connected.  You can easily be the one without being the other, or both, or neither.

--Female sexual dominance is not automatically connected to either of the former two things.  One can be a female dominant without being a feminist, or a female supremacist.  Or one can be any combination of the three things.

--From my perspective, the vast majority of female supremacists are not in fact feminists.  Female supremacy, as a fantasy, actually plays quite well into patriarchal ideology, in that it represents a terrifying vision which demonizes women and female exercise of power.  Female supremacist rhetoric seems to be large based on the model of white supremacist rhetoric and patriarchal misogynist rhetoric--it is constructed to be a parody of autocratic, abusive authority.

2. Is it truly satisfing to female supremacist to be submitted to?

Since there are probably no women here who are heavily into this particular fantasy roleplay form, I will assume that the question has been thrown open to all female dominants and answer it.  [;)]

Answer:  yes.  I find it deeply satisfying in many ways--emotional, sexual, spiritual, etc.--to receive submission.  The tendency toward dominance as a personality trait is probably distributed pretty evenly between men and women in the general population.  As you point out in your post, however, dominance as a personal inclination is very different from dominance as a socially prescribed role--in many cases, dominance as a social role is thrust upon people who do not enjoy it (men like your father) and denied to those who do enjoy it (women like Joan of Arc). 



TNstepsout -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 7:04:26 PM)

Honestly I believe that to assume supremacy based on sex, either male or female is wrong, however I do enjoy indulging myself in the concept.



MzMia -> RE: Questions on the ideology of Female Supremacy. (2/5/2008 8:38:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Honestly I believe that to assume supremacy based on sex, either male or female is wrong, however I do enjoy indulging myself in the concept.


[sm=applause.gif]
Hiya Tn! You hit the nail on the head for ME.
Like I have said a zillion times on here.
I don't think all women are superior to men.
 
The only person I ever plan to practice my Female Supremacy over is MY submissive.
 
It is a term, just like Queen, Goddess and Boo Hickety Hoo.
I usually pass on this topic, not even worth my time to type an answer.
 
[sm=banghead.gif] It is just that a concept, a BDSM ideology and way of being for a Dominant woman and
her submissive partner...IF they both are into it. 
 
Where is Elise Sutton when I need her?  



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