RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart?

RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 12:41:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Lin Here, here. Well said. URanger-Anybody can be swiftboated-that's the point to that tactic. Just like Nixon's smear machine convinced folks that Edmund Muskie was an alcoholic (he wasn't), the Swiftboat folks convinced people that Kerry wasn't a war hero. I used to have more faith in how the military gave out medals until GWBs daddy got one for being shot down and losing his crew. But you can only cry wolf so often..... Sam I'm no fan of Bush I but his decorations are legit. He was shot down twice. The second time is when he won the DFC. He took AAA while on approach to his target and flew on to drop his bombs and then flew away from the enemy held island in an attempt to either get back to his carrier or to at least go in the water away from the japanese held island. When he bailed out one of the plane's two other crewmen also bailed out but his parachute did not open. This is all based on other pilots eyewitness accounts. Certainly worthy of an award.

mnottertail -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 12:45:00 PM)
well, there is accounts about that say he fucked up and wasnt where he shouldve been when he shouldve been, and his daddy got him fixed. Nevertheless, neither of these medals is tearing apart the democrats. LOLOLOLOLOL

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 12:57:55 PM)
I think it was brought up, course I can't be sure, as a "swift-boat" smear. As others have agreed, this is a viable tactic used previously by the Clintons. And I think this type of tactic will bode poorly in the future for the Dems.

DomKen -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:05:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey I think it was brought up, course I can't be sure, as a "swift-boat" smear. As others have agreed, this is a viable tactic used previously by the Clintons. And I think this type of tactic will bode poorly in the future for the Dems. Very funny. The swift boat tactic, tell outrageous lies till one sticks, is a very old political trick popularized by Lee Atwater and GWB in 1988. However I've never seen any claim the Clintons used it in either 92 or 96. What is your specific claim and what evidence do you have to link it to the Clintons?

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:14:10 PM)
Is my opinion therefore a cite isn't needed. Given forever I am sure at some point we could come up with examples of where just about everyone has used it. Or is it your intent that my opinions have to have cites? And if so, does that apply to all opinions? And if so, then who had the original thought?

DomKen -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:22:13 PM)
You claimed it was a tactic previously used by the Clintons. I asked you to back up that claim. Otherwise it looks like you grinding a partisan axe and attempting to use the swift boat tactic yourself. So were you not being entirely truthful or do you have an incident in which you believe the Clintons spread lies about an opponent?

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:26:08 PM)
From Hillary Campain on the middle class Return to fiscal responsibility. After six and a half year of President Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, Hillary wants America to regain control of its destiny. She will move back toward a balanced budget and surpluses. Hillary believes that we should develop a set of budget rules similar to those we had in the 90s which required us to fund new expenditures with new revenues or cuts in other areas. There is no proof offered. I will agree that it is the opinion of many, myself in some instances, but isn't it ture that a budget surplus is illegal. That the govt isn't allowed to hord money or to make a profit? But it seems by these comments that the Govt should be turned into a profit making interest for the people. And of course bashing bush is the way to do it. Course that is just one man's intrepretation of what she does

DomKen -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:35:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey From Hillary Campain on the middle class Return to fiscal responsibility. After six and a half year of President Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, Hillary wants America to regain control of its destiny. She will move back toward a balanced budget and surpluses. Hillary believes that we should develop a set of budget rules similar to those we had in the 90s which required us to fund new expenditures with new revenues or cuts in other areas. There is no proof offered. I will agree that it is the opinion of many, myself in some instances, but isn't it ture that a budget surplus is illegal. That the govt isn't allowed to hord money or to make a profit? But it seems by these comments that the Govt should be turned into a profit making interest for the people. And of course bashing bush is the way to do it. Course that is just one man's intrepretation of what she does You're claiming it is a lie that GWB has been fiscally irresponsible? At the very most you could claim it is a matter of opinion but there is no untruthful claim against GWB in that quote. And no a budget surplus is not illegal. We had at least 2 surpluses under Clinton. Is that the best you could come up with? That was HRC's swift boating of someone? Do you really intend to continue trying to defend this claim or are you going to admit you were in error?

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:39:11 PM)
Well no, like Clinton wanting to take my right to work and vest it in the unions. And all of that. But these are my opinions. Are they really that threatening to you? Or are you ini lockstep with someone? Or what?

Owner59 -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:46:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You claimed it was a tactic previously used by the Clintons. I asked you to back up that claim. Otherwise it looks like you grinding a partisan axe and attempting to use the swift boat tactic yourself. So were you not being entirely truthful or do you have an incident in which you believe the Clintons spread lies about an opponent? He knew it wasn`t true,he just can`t help being himself. It a technique called "pot-kettle-black". As in the Bush/Rove case of the swift-boating,you actually accuse your opponent of the things you`re guilty of. In that case,Bush had an AWOL issue to cover-up and a war hero issue in John Kerry to muddle and discredit. And it worked.The dolts believed that Kerry wasn`t a war hero,lied about his record,faked his injuries,etc. They also believed(even in the absence of his military files)that Bush served his time in the Air National Guard and wasn`t bounced out after failing to take a physical. So what do you do,if your guy is a coward and failure,and the other guy is a genuine war hero? You use the pot-kettle-black technique. Typical run of the mill republican bull shit,is as creative as KenDckey can get.

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:51:12 PM)
LOL Actually I lean towards Obama. Can't stand hilary but would vote for McCain over her.

DomKen -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:52:35 PM)
So you simply made it up. I knew you were partisan but I always give people, even republicans, the benefit of the doubt. You've spent the last couple of weeks posting trolling topics against the democrats, this one included, and now you just made up a slur against both a former POTUS and a present candidate. I don't care if you don't like them or even if you hate all democrats. I do however care if anyone spreads lies about anyone which is what you just tried.

Owner59 -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 1:56:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So you simply made it up. I knew you were partisan but I always give people, even republicans, the benefit of the doubt. You've spent the last couple of weeks posting trolling topics against the democrats, this one included, and now you just made up a slur against both a former POTUS and a present candidate. I don't care if you don't like them or even if you hate all democrats. I do however care if anyone spreads lies about anyone which is what you just tried. A case of to much free time,.....me thinks.

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:13:02 PM)
Oh no. I believe many things. But I like to challenge the thinking of others as well then consider their thoughts and musings to challenge mine. I don't believe in Big Govt. I don't believe in all the Social Spending that we have. I don't believe that it is Govern't right to just continue to take our money by raising taxes. I do believe that a balanced budget is a good thing. But there should never be a surplus. I belive that we paid for the Spanish American War long before they quit the special tax for it. I believe that there are a lot of things that the govt ad politicians want that is not constitutional. I believe in expressing my opinion. Listening to others opinion and challenging their facts. I believe facts can be challenged. I do believe that people can disagree with opinins but should be respected and honored. I believe I have done more work for the Democratic Party than the Republicans I ave been a life long Republican and learned most of my politics from some very distinguished Dems. It goes on.

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:14:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 A case of to much free time,.....me thinks. That too

caitlyn -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:21:56 PM)
General response ... I actually feel the opposite is the case. On the right, we have the guy that sang, "Bomb, Bomb Iran," as the front runner, and as the upstart the guy that chose the period before the southen primary season, to come out for immediate removal of all illegals (How would we make that happen again?) ... and the odd man out, is the guy with, agree or not, a formulated plan. On the left, Senators Clinton and Obama have kept it fairly civil, and are highly motivated to keep it that way. It's not as if they really have anything with which to go after each other. The, "Washington Insider" card has already been played against Senator Clinton, and the "Not Enough Experience" card actually plays in the hands of people voting for the change offered by Senator Obama. Senator McCain is a good man, and a moderate, and is getting the moderate Republican vote ... but the emphasis needs to be on the second word, and not the first. McCain drawing swing voters in numbers large enough to win the White House, seems more hopeful than meaningful.

DomKen -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:27:57 PM)
I honestly could care less what you claim now. That's what happens when someone is dishonest with me. However one bit of really dumb thought caught my attention. A budget surplus, atm, is not just a good idea but a neccessity. The only way to pay down the debt is to run a surplus and to pay off the debt. Simply balancing the budget puts us at best in a no way situation, deeply in debt having to issue new bonds to pay off old ones as they mature and unable to engage in deficit spending when it could do some good. Ideally the federal government should run a modest surplus in periods of growth, paying off debt and/or saving for future shortfalls, and running a modest deficit in times of recession, to boost the economy (consider the good it would do the economy today if the government was able and willing to go into debt for a big transp infrastructure program and a big housing redevelopment program in the gulf coast region still recovering from Katrina). Simply having a year in year out balanced budget would actually be next tio impossible and very hard on the economy as government would grow in good times and shrink in bad which would be pointless in good times and terrible in bad times as the last thing a nation in an economic downturn is even more people out of work.

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:29:14 PM)
Caitlyn. Why the emphasis on Republican vs Moderate (which is a political leaning) Now I don't agree at this point with much of what he has to say, but I don't understanding condeming anyone for their political party.

KenDckey -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:31:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I honestly could care less what you claim now. That's what happens when someone is dishonest with me. However one bit of really dumb thought caught my attention. A budget surplus, atm, is not just a good idea but a neccessity. The only way to pay down the debt is to run a surplus and to pay off the debt. Simply balancing the budget puts us at best in a no way situation, deeply in debt having to issue new bonds to pay off old ones as they mature and unable to engage in deficit spending when it could do some good. Ideally the federal government should run a modest surplus in periods of growth, paying off debt and/or saving for future shortfalls, and running a modest deficit in times of recession, to boost the economy (consider the good it would do the economy today if the government was able and willing to go into debt for a big transp infrastructure program and a big housing redevelopment program in the gulf coast region still recovering from Katrina). Simply having a year in year out balanced budget would actually be next tio impossible and very hard on the economy as government would grow in good times and shrink in bad which would be pointless in good times and terrible in bad times as the last thing a nation in an economic downturn is even more people out of work. To me, a surplus is somoething you hold on to. If we knew we were going to have a surplus, then I agree it should have a budget line item and thus be a part of the balanced budget. Maybe is just syntax but I don't like surpluses.

caitlyn -> RE: Are the Democrats Tearing Apart? (2/7/2008 2:40:37 PM)
No condemnation associated ... I was mearly pointing out that he is winning the moderate Republican vote, not the vote of moderates. Look at the numbers ... the turnout on the left is running roughly twice what it is on the right. That can't be ignored, and if it continues, Senator McCain will need many slices of the moderate pie, outside his own party, to become President. Things may change, but right now support from the non-aligned center, just isn't there. Respectfully submitted ...

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