RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship

RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (Full Version)

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undergroundsea -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/6/2008 9:29:29 PM)
I once attended a seminar that discussed how to end relationships. The message of the presenter was to end relationships honorably, a philosophy with which I agree. What is it to be honorable? My definition of honorable behavior is that if a prospective mate (where one wants things to move forward) hears about this behavior, one can feel good about how this behavior reflects on self. Another way I define it is that if someone else practiced the behavior in question towards me, I could feel that that person was fair and reasonable. If you feel bad about what you said, you might say to him that you regret your words and hurt it might have caused, and that you wish him well in his future. Even if his behavior does not merit such a response, I think you might feel you behaved honorably and feel that satisfaction within yourself. Based on information in your post, I do not think well of his behavior, and agree with others that it is best to end things and let time pass. Cheers, Sea

AtlantaMistress -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/6/2008 11:40:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadySharon Do your self a giant favor and listen to xxblushesxx and MsCfromMelbourne. They are giving you excellent advice. Remember, you teach people how to treat you and obviously, this guy is not a quick study. He's so into his inflated ego and is such a gamesman that he can't hear you. He's the type who is thinking of his next move and what he'll say, once he notices that your lips have stopped moving. I know you know what I'm talking about. I know this because you were up close and personal when I allowed someone else to consume my life, play games and always make it seem like he was the good guy and I was the Bitch from Eternal Hell. You're dealing with a sociopathic spoiled brat who can't come to terms with the fact that he wants to suck cock and has found a way to do it without having anyone think he's gay or even bi. You don't know how much of what he's told you from day one is true or false. For all you know he's playing this game on other woman as we speak. You may very well be a sister in a sorority of woman who have bought into his bs. You are worth more than this prick and have to deal with it. You hurt his feelings? Well, boo hoo, fuckhead certainly hasn't been worried about your feelings. You owe this dick head... Nothing! Ok - this, for those who don't know - this comes from someone who cannot stand to see ANYONE upset me - my MOM! Mother - thank you for your public support, however - Lady Pact made a point that I hope you will understand...when I used the abuse by his Nanny against him - that was TOTALLY WRONG of me. You of all people should understand why that would upset me. Regardless of what he had done - good/bad, right/wrong - NO ONE deserves that...especially when he told me those things while submitting to me. I had the responsibility of that information - which never should have been used against him. I am taking the advice however, of not contacting him at all, and perhaps one day, I will write him a letter explaining that what I said was wrong, and how I knew personally...that should have never been something I said. I do appreciate however, that you are always in my corner...believe it or not though - your angel is not perfect. quote: ORIGINAL: undergroundsea If you feel bad about what you said, you might say to him that you regret your words and hurt it might have caused, and that you wish him well in his future. Even if his behavior does not merit such a response, I think you might feel you behaved honorably and feel that satisfaction within yourself. Based on information in your post, I do not think well of his behavior, and agree with others that it is best to end things and let time pass. Cheers, Sea Thank you Sea - I did exactly that...even before reading the other post this morning about Responsibility that made me feel so bad, even before getting his message about how my words hurt like punches...I had calmed down, and written an apology for saying nasty things and did tell him I wished him luck in finding happiness, since that was truly what I hoped for him.

LadySharon -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 1:51:22 AM)
Sandy, Thank you for so introducing me to the community... hi all! Also, thank you for knowing that I have your back, sides and front in any situation. I understand that you aren't perfect. I hate to admit this in a public forum.... but, neither am I; noone is. Please take everyone elses 'untainted' advise and put this and him behind you. But, also, never forget or question what a good person you really are. This is said not as your Mom, or is it Mom Domme or Domme's Mom (inside joke), whatever... just take all the good advice you've been given and forgive yourself.

MistressVnus -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 5:45:04 AM)
quote: even before getting his message about how my words hurt like punches...I had calmed down, and written an apology for saying nasty things and did tell him I wished him luck in finding happiness, since that was truly what I hoped for him. Sometimes the hardest part of healing and moving on is "forgiving ourselves." Don't forget to do that. It's essential. We are all human and making mistakes is how we learn. I commend you for having the courage to put it out there and taking responsibility for your part. You're definately on the right track.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 9:07:11 AM)
The only thing that concerns me about feeling guilt or shame over the words spoken is that once again--this man gains power over you. It seems to me that waaaaaay too much of the power in this power exchange relationship is being exerted by him: just going by your own original post, he is using several different and easily recognizable control strategies on you, which are classic of controlling borderline personalities. 1. He defines you: He tells you who you are, in the scheme of things, and creates a strong relationship in your mind between your identity and the relationship with him. In this case, it is by repeatedly hammering how "new" and "inexperienced" and "weak" you were when you met him, and how much you "grew" and became "better" and "stronger" by relating to him. Using this strategy allows him to obscure the negative effects he may have in your life, including the way he disregards your feelings and values. He frames things in ways that forbid you from thinking in any terms other than his positive influence, and makes you not want to "throw away your growth", which you associate with him. 2. He lies to you: Enough said. Your clearly stated limits were violated due to his deception, and you experience cycling emotions as he re-frames reality over and over. Behavior like this is a sign of an unstable personality, not to mention complete disrespect for you as a person and a woman--much less as a domme! Lying about something like a marriage is grounds for an immediate severance of all ties with any person--you should never be ambivalent about these moral limits. 3. He does not make and keep appointments: The games surrounding plans and meeting times in the early days were an incredibly negative, very brutal control strategy and should be taken in the future as a HUGE flashing red light. These games are a way of forcing you to invest far, far more energy into this relationship than it merits. A person who cannot make and keep an appointment is making a statement about your worth. Investing the energy and time to "goad" him into keeping the appointment is the exact opposite of what you should do: it overvalues him, reinforces the behavior, and deeply satisfies the very need that drives the behavior, which is to control you. 4. He tops from the bottom: He appropriates your dominance as his property, expressing jealousy etc. about your relationships with others--despite having failed to invest in an exclusive romantic relationship with you. He tries to manipulate you into anger or violent outbursts in order to draw more energy and attention from you, rather than sanely and calmly negotiating to try and get his masochistic needs for pain or humiliation met, or trying to deepen the relationship in other positive ways. 5. He engages you emotionally and then "betrays" the emotions: He builds a sense of intimacy or "shared relationship space" by telling you the Big Secret about his sexuality--his "forced bi" fantasy--and then tries to create drama by violating that sense of intimacy. He informs you that he has told "the Big Secret" to another domme. You feel annoyed and devalued by this, because you have put an investment into the relationship and she has clearly not. Rest assured: your annoyance and your devaluation were the point of this strategy, NOT an accident. 6. He draws you into violating your professional/lifestyle ethics: He used the false intimacy he created with you as a lever to exert power and try to emotionally hurt you. You, instinctively recognizing that the intimacy was used as a weapon, turned it against him verbally. You now feel guilty, because you know that it is wrong to use intimacy against someone in an argument, however justified. I personally would quell that guilt. You are a very nice, ethical and loving person--and this man knows it. He has used your good qualities and your desire to invest love and energy in others as an avenue to harm you. He does not merit guilt, not least because your negative emotions here were the whole point of the exercise! Instead of feeling guilty, in your position I would look at what has happened and realize that this man is a corrosive influence on me as a domme. I am not an adulterer, nor a person who uses intimate information in an argument. If he is turning me into those things, I need to get the hell away from him, and STAY the hell away from him. Whether he consciously intends to be such a negative influence or not--the dynamic is very bad for me. Once you take your energy from someone like this, you usually start to feel better very quickly. But a manipulator who has hooks in you emotionally, financially and/or sexually will not miss any chance to try and drag you back into his little Theater of Pain--not even a well-meant apology. I would suggest you apologize to the mirror and get on with your life. Lesson learned. Just don't let anyone wind you up that way ever again.

laurell3 -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 9:13:24 AM)
I'm sorry I actually quit reading at the point he lied to you about being married and all the manipulative things he did. You owe this man nothing, you owe yourself much more than you are giving yourself if you think that you do. There is nothing in the world you can say to make this trainwreck be less of the trainwreck it is and you are only opening the door for him to continue attempting to manipulate you by continuing. Of course you're not perfect, but human beings do respond rather strongly to having someone lie to them so completely. It's time to think about you and how you ended up here and take care of you.

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 9:49:56 AM)
You can't call back the words, but you should not let guilt over those words, help him manipulate you further. From what I've read in the original post, it does not sound like a happy or productive association anymore. Cherish what you had, but mourn it and move on. No amount of bandaids or lingering with apologies or 'what if's' will make the festering any less unhealthy. My approach would be to leave a sincere letter of apology for the words you spoke, and explain they were used in the heat of the moment because you were hurt. That hurt I think had been coming a long time, which is perhaps why you lashed out so cruelly. Ultimately it's not his forgiveness you need, simply to leave a closing note that you wished you could call them back, but you can't, and it is obvious communication is not productive or helpful in anyway between you two. As such you think it is for both your best interests to disassociate. Leave it plain simple and truthful, and let him take it for what it's worth, then close that chapter in your life. If something down the road brings you two together in friendship then great, but I would not reccomend pursuing anything at all with the man.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 9:52:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx I just don't think you owe him anything. A friendship, an apology, or respect. He never earned any of those things. If you were my sister, or my best friend, I'd tell you to get away quick. How can you let someone who lies to those closest to him, (and only feels remorse if he's caught), be any part of your life? Btw...I don't think you have the power over him you feel like you do. He wouldn't have done the things he did, if that were so. I'm sorry to say these things to you, but...I feel like you already know this anyway. But this guy has done a number on your emotions. ~Christina Again - I feel like I owe him something, for without him, I really wouldn't have so much happiness that I have in my life today - since he really did push me to find Dominance I didn't know I had. Perhaps you are right though. I know that in over 20 years of searching, he never truly submitted to anyone before me. As manipulative as he could be, there were definite moments of clarity, where we were open and could talk. I know that when I initally told him I wouldn't see him when I found out he was reconsilling with his wife, he begged to see me, was on his knees with his head in my lap, holding back tears, and when I hugged him, I didn't think he would ever let go. You are right, I don't have power over him anymore, but he did sincerely submit to me - even if only at times, and with submission comes power, and responsibiltiy. That is why I wrote this - I do feel that I failed in my responsibilty to protect him, even from himself. Perhaps I take the responsibility too seriously, but I personally have been very hurt in the past, and try very hard not to do that to others. I know that I have hurt him - I heard from him today - more upset than he has ever been in the past, accusing me of being cruel, my words like fists punching him - leaving scars that could not be taken back. That is all I hate. I wish I would have handled it differently, but I can't change the past. What's done is done. I simply will move on, and let it go. Everything happens for a reason. Perhaps this is what had to happen for it to really be over. i owe the army a lot about things they have taught me about myself and my abilities, as well as high school and college. i don't really wish to return to any of those, and to the best of my knowlege, none of them lied to me, nor misrepresented their availability. This is my humble opinion Ma'am, based on Your description, that debt and obligation is paid in full. Based on his behavior in leaving a tribute, i beleive that he feels the same way.

subtype13 -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 2:35:03 PM)
Hello ? Is this the chess club forumn? ....oops wrong place [8\|]

AtlantaMistress -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 3:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtype13 Hello ? Is this the chess club forumn? ....oops wrong place [8\|] No, smart ass - you are in the right place - CHECK MATE [sm=lol.gif] (you would have let me win any way thought...)

MaamJay -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/7/2008 10:31:27 PM)
I can't say it any better than ShaktiSama, LadyPact, MsC and the others! Frustrating as it is, this guy knew all Your buttons and exactly how and when to push them. Realise this ... he PUSHED You into striking back at him so cruelly because he KNEW You would find that hard to live with. Yep that was the final weapon in his considerable arsenal. So, no more power to him, take it all back. Yes, maybe You did speak and act out of turn, out of accordance with Your character, Your ethics etc. OK so now You have proved You are human. We ALL fuck up sometimes. Accept it, learn from it, forgive Yourself and move on. Stay completely away from this guy. I honestly don't think an apology in 30 days would serve any useful purpose at all, it would only have him laughing even more behind Your back as to how he has got into YOUR mind! he doesn't deserve Your respect in that way. You deserve Your own respect and that will rebuild as You accept that he played You (I think that's a contributor to the bad feelings You are having about striking back, You'd rather take the blame on Yourself than accept that he played You into this) and also accept that with the analysis You have received here, You now have any number of "red flag points" by which You will avoid ever being pushed into this situation again. Good luck hon ... I know this sucks ... I have hated it in the past when My buttons have been played too! But ... you DO learn, honest! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

ocilla -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/8/2008 4:36:39 PM)
Hey Sandy, I don't have but a moment but wanted to respond even if quickly. I agree with folks that it is time to walk away and not look back. You learned alot from him but he got alot in that process, your obligation is done. My first experience with a sub had some of the similar SAM dynamic and it took a little bit of back and forth for me to let it go completely. He had opened that dominant door within me and we shared that together - but ultimately he could not come with me down that path as I matured....He still contacts me every couple months and I gently but firmly shut him down with a quick one or two sentence email and no more response. His attempts at restarting the dance are getting fewer and farther in between and I have moved on. I do not have any of the charge for him any longer and never think about him, which I was not sure would be possible for me. Interestingly, not long ago, by happenstance I met a lifestyle domme that I really connect with, and she is no newbie but has been active for 30 years - a veteran if you will. After we had known each other and had become "girlfriends" for several months I told her about this fella and she told me about a fella that she was struggling with at that very time. Low and behold it turned out to be the same fella. And none of us are in the same state even. Weird huh? Anyhow - he has the exact same dynamic with her and it is really wrecking havoc on her. So lesson to me is that he is what he is and this is his game. So you've grown beyond him and you have a real gem in your life now who has wonderful and has real potential - and I have seen the two of you together - the playful colloborative fun yall have is special and quite grounded from my perspective. Move on - cut him off so to speak - make a break. You've too many other ways to use your energy that are beneficial and positive to spend anymore time going round and round with your first sub.

AtlantaMistress -> RE: Responsibility and Ending the Relationship (2/8/2008 10:10:35 PM)
Thank you ocilla - you are absolutely right - about everything - and I have already begun the process of forgetting him...at least I have now forgiven myself [;)]

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