RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (Full Version)

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came4U -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 4:11:54 AM)

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Stop-Eating-So-Much/dp/061514831X

so damn easy!

I will never be convinced that anyone overweight gets that way by eating a diet of 3 regular sized meals per day.

The author has many ideas, including 'self control'.   





toservez -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 5:18:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i'm trying to post this as rationally and calmly as i can....However, here's my question...If so many insurance companies who are obvious proponates of these procedures are on board with this then why will those same insurance companies not pay for memberships to weight watchers or gyms?


Insurance companies can be accused of being evil and greedy but I would not accuse them of being dumb.

They do not pay for gym memberships or weight watcher type programs just like many will not pay for stop smoking costs, research after research shows that the incentive of getting these programs for free simply does not work to curb the problems.

It is like anything else in life, change in an individual begins and ends with the individual.





subrob1967 -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 6:39:25 AM)

Most insurance companies will cover the surgery providing you follow strict guidelines.

1) You must be under a medically supervised diet & weight loss plan for at least 6 months.
2) You must have a psychological profile done by a board certified Psychologist
3) You must attend up to a years worth of counseling post surgery.

And most if not all the Surgeons who do the surgeries insist you quit smoking at least 6 months before the surgery, or they wont operate on you.

For those that think this is a quick easy fix, try cutting your belly open, and removing 3 feet of lower intestine, while wrapping a rubber band around your stomach, or cutting away 2/3rds of your stomach away, and rerouting your intestines.

This is a major invasive surgery, with a minimum three week recovery time. Your recovery starts three hours after the procedure, the staff gets you up and walking around.

You are limited to broth for the first week of recovery, and baby food for the next two weeks. Then you move on to soft foods like mashed potato's, and scrambled eggs.

I've known four people who have had this done, all of them before the lap band was approved. Two of them are dead (one due to drinking, so not surgery related), and the other two completely changed, personality wise.

This is not a "quick fix", and for the morbid obese, with a BMI of 40 or more, it could be a life saving procedure.

This is NOT for the vain "I need to lose thirty pounds for the 10 year reunion" crowd.

Roux-en-y is the most common, and safest bariatric procedure.




TracyTaken -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 8:41:24 AM)

quote:

You are limited to broth for the first week of recovery, and baby food for the next two weeks. Then you move on to soft foods like mashed potato's, and scrambled eggs.


My sister said the hard part is trying to stay hydrated when you can drink only 1/2 cup of water at a time.




SubbieOnWheels -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:06:54 PM)

I've seen those ads for the surgery where the narrator says, "...and her diabetes went away." That is simply not true. Her diet changed, didn't it? And someone who is in the beginning stages of diabetes can change their blood sugar count by changing their diet. That's how I keep my blood sugar regulated, even though I'm on meds. If I eat too much or the wrong things, my blood sugar goes up.

The first time my hemoglobin A1c was below 6.5, I said, "Well, the meds are doing their job." The doctor smiled and said, "No, you are doing your job."

Maintaining a diet that keeps my A1c at a good level is not easy, but it is certainly worth it. In the three years since my diagnosis, my meds have not needed any adjustment. (Except for a reduction in my blood-pressure medication.)

All that being said, the surgery may be the only option for some extremely obese people. Their bodies cannot handle the change in diet that would be necessary to lose weight the "old-fashioned" way.




TracyTaken -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:15:55 PM)

quote:

I've seen those ads for the surgery where the narrator says, "...and her diabetes went away." That is simply not true. Her diet changed, didn't it?


Well, I've never seen those ads.  But just to be clear (since you were responding to my post), what I said was that she was no longer on medication for diabetes, or high blood pressure, or asthma.

Another thing that people don't understand if they have never experienced it:  Some people are real sensitive to changes in blood sugar (I mean it can change your emotional life - literally, the way you feel).  If you've got that goin' and emotional problems as well, it can create a vicious circle that is very hard to break.  An alcoholic can choose not do drink.  Everyone has to eat.




slave4serviceNC -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:26:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:

I've seen those ads for the surgery where the narrator says, "...and her diabetes went away." That is simply not true. Her diet changed, didn't it?


Well, I've never seen those ads.  But just to be clear (since you were responding to my post), what I said was that she was no longer on medication for diabetes, or high blood pressure, or asthma.

Another thing that people don't understand if they have never experienced it:  Some people are real sensitive to changes in blood sugar (I mean it can change your emotional life - literally, the way you feel).  If you've got that goin' and emotional problems as well, it can create a vicious circle that is very hard to break.  An alcoholic can choose not do drink.  Everyone has to eat.



With anyone that is overweight and loses weight their insulin requirements decrease. The same goes for hypertension also. There is less of you and less metabolic stress on the body so blood sugar becomes more even as well as blood pressure. Less metabolic stress on the body equals less insulin requirements from the body as well as less blood pressure meds needed. Losing weight whether it be by bariatric surgery or other methods doesn't sure diabetes or other comorbidities associated with obesity but does decrease the amount of meds one may have to take.




Ssuccubus -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:27:35 PM)

I had surgery last November...A gastric sleeve operation and its the bets thing I ever did...I am feeling so much better in myself in all aspects...And I know my journey has just begun

~Ssuccubus




Ssuccubus -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:32:39 PM)

Oh and I would like to add that having this operation is not taking the easy way out. I have joined a gym and I walk daily to make sure that I am getting healthy. It's easy to critise when you havent faced turmoil like this for many years...I know at the end of the day I made the right decision for me and no one can take that away from me...

~Ssuccubus




Bound2One -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:47:29 PM)

I had considered the lap band surgery.  I'm a size 18 - not huge, but needing to lose.  My doctor talked me out of it.  She told me that since I was healthy - good blood levels, sugars, heart, etc. ... that it's best for me to stick to traditional slower means of losing weight.  She said she would encourage a person who had health issues to go for the gastric bypass because they are at risk.  BUT she emphasized how NOT easy the surgery and lifestyle changes are, though it appears so from the outside.  It's a lifelong challenge, you can gain the weight back, etc., etc.  Same as with traditional weight loss methods, though it is quicker. 

So ... I opted out of the surgery and am trudging on with traditional methods.  yay me!   lol




Mentor1965 -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 12:56:08 PM)

I just stumbled on this thread and I'd like to offer two points from the perspective of someone who's recently gove through the gastric bypass procedure.

First, weight loss surgery (gastric bypass [gbp] or Lap band) isn't a cure for morbid obesity, it's a tool.  It will jump start the weight loss process, provide an ongoing tool in weight management by assisting in quantity restriction and in the case of gbp malabsorbtion as well.  There is also the benefit in about 50% of gbp patients of physiological incentive in the form of dumping syndrome from too much sugar or fat ingested.  That said, it doesn't address, as others have pointed out, the root causes of the patient's compulsive overeating.

Second, it's not an easy way out.  From a gbp perspective there's an invasive and painful surgery and a 6-8 week recovery period where you need to re-learn to eat (starting on clear liquids and building up tolerance to solid foods).  There's learning to eat slower (and any gbp patient who's eaten too fast or too much can tell you the agony you'll be in for a couple of hours if you try to ignore that tidbit), there's an inability to eat and drink at the same time (most gbp patients) and learning which foods you can and can't tolerate.

There are huge medical benefits.  80% of insulin dependent type II diabetics become insulin free after the surgery, there's a decrease in severity or elimination of obstructive sleep apnea, improvements in blood pressure, lipid levels, etc.  But there are also risks associated with the procedure including leekage, gall stones, gastric reflux, abcess etc.  For patients greater that 400 lbs, there is a profound increase in risk related to the anesthesia (which I think is minimized in Big Medicine).

Each patient needs to weigh (no pun intended) the risks and potential benefits of weight loss surgery.  They need to view it as a tool both physiologically and a motivational tool.  For those considering weight loss surgery or those interested in more information, I highly recommend the book, "Weight Loss Surgery for Dummies" which is fairly comprehensive and balanced in it's presentaiton and covers description of the various procedures, things to consider, and pre-op, op and post-op life.

I won't get into the who insurance coverage, non-coverage, gym membership coverage issue...that's another soapbox for another day.

Mentor (who is 70 lbs and $27,000 lighter)





TracyTaken -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 1:24:37 PM)

quote:

Losing weight whether it be by bariatric surgery or other methods doesn't sure diabetes or other comorbidities associated with obesity but does decrease the amount of meds one may have to take.


In my sister's case, it decreased them to nothing.  Now, I've never had a weight problem and am now heavier than I have ever been, even at nine months pregnant.  I'm five and half feet tall and weigh 150 and am quite comfortable with that (I'm pushin' 50, I give myself some slack).  If I were to weigh 280, I wonder if I would suffer from high blood pressure, would I have trouble breathing, would I test as diabetic?  I would guess so.  So is weighing 150 actually a "cure"?




TracyTaken -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 1:29:52 PM)

quote:

I had surgery last November...A gastric sleeve operation and its the bets thing I ever did...I am feeling so much better in myself in all aspects...And I know my journey has just begun


Good for you Ssuccubus!

My sister is the same way.  For a long time she's been really unhappy, very mean to me (and it always broke my heart).  I get emails from her now and my heart about bursts with joy!  She is so much happier, feels so much better ... probably has more energy than she had in her twenties.  Who wouldn't celebrate that as a *wonderful* thing to happen to a person?

People who have very tiny minds, I think.  [:)]






TracyTaken -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 1:34:20 PM)

quote:


Mentor (who is 70 lbs and $27,000 lighter)


Are you glad you did it?




ItalianSMistress -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 2:19:24 PM)

I know a few people that have had surgery for weight loss.  Two of them have done very well, over a number of years (5 and 12 to be exact), I also have another friend that just ate junk food and milkshakes instead of real food as it is harder to digest afterwards, and she is now bigger then she was pre surgery.  I have a friend that also lost an aunt due to complications of that same surgery.
 
Being so heavy Myself, My DR has asked Me if I was interested in this, I told her flat out no.  I am a diabetic also, but a type one.  I started taking insulin shots as a child as My mother did.  Even if I was 100lbs I would still be diabetic, and need needles to control it.  My DR often jokes with Me that perhaps I send someone else in to do My bloodwork as My blood sugar levels (including A1C) are always in good range, My cholesterol and blood pressure are well within the right levels, and despite being diabetic for over 20 years, I don’t have any long term health problems.  If I did, perhaps I would feel differently about losing weight, but to be honest, its just not a priority. I am happy, and healthy, so why do something as drastic as surgery.  I just had this talk with My DR when I went for My physical last month, in fact.  She said she is a bit skidish talking to Me about it, cuz I seem to be the only patient she has that is so heavy and does not feel the need to lose weight.  I always tell her that if I want to lose weight, I will do it, if I am not ready it will never happen, period.  I am very active, I take care of two kids, keep a clean house, work two jobs, both of which I am on My feet constantly at.  I was a boxer for years when I was younger (before My eyesight got too bad to continue) and always loved the gym.  I am by no means lazy. I assume, of course, that this level of activity is what has kept Me healthy.  Of course, however, there are changes I could make to lose some weight.  I am not shy about Myself, I have friends that are half My size that wont wear a bathing suit in public, PLEASE, that would be the day, that I am concerned about who is looking at Me.  I am not shy about My size or My weight, I am not ashamed, I change in the pubic change room at the gym, I wear a bathing suit to the beach and I DON’T change My eating habits momentarily depending on who is around.  I hate when you see a woman that is clearly overweight but will push her salad around on her plate instead of eating it when she is on a date!  I always tell My friends, the boy knows you did not get that way eating just carrots and celery, don’t insult his intelligents!
 
I also just wanted to say, in case anyone did not know, that insulin is a hormone, and just like most hormones, it makes you grow, which is the main reason diabetic woman have big babies (My son was 12lbs at a month early).  So for those diabetics that are insulin dependant, you really need to seek medical attention if you are trying to lose weight.  For every unit of insulin you take, it keep appx 8 lbs of weight on your body, so that has to be monitored.  Right now, there is a trend going on among young diabetic teenaged girls that stop taking their insulin to lose weight but they are losing their eyesight and legs at age 20.  Isnt it sad that they rather be blind or crippled then fat?  My mother did that,,,,she was mentally ill and decided she wanted to be skinny, stopped taking her insulin and lost over 100lbs in less than a year,,,,,then she died.




FangsNfeet -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 8:45:55 PM)

I would like to clarify any confusion on my "Last Resort" idea. I am in no way supporting diets pretaining to Liquid Only, Bulimia, Ban Eating, Tape Worms, or Heroin/Crystal Meth/illegal drug use. I do not consider these to be methods of last resort to loose wieght. I think of them as a Death Wish.  

I support surgery far more than I would ever suggest any of the Death Plans I've mentioned.  




Mentor1965 -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 8:55:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

quote:


Mentor (who is 70 lbs and $27,000 lighter)


Are you glad you did it?



Absolutely.  Not sure I'd ever want to have it again, but no regrets at all.




Mentor1965 -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 8:58:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress

I also just wanted to say, in case anyone did not know, that insulin is a hormone, and just like most hormones, it makes you grow, which is the main reason diabetic woman have big babies (My son was 12lbs at a month early).  So for those diabetics that are insulin dependant, you really need to seek medical attention if you are trying to lose weight.  For every unit of insulin you take, it keep appx 8 lbs of weight on your body, so that has to be monitored.  Right now, there is a trend going on among young diabetic teenaged girls that stop taking their insulin to lose weight but they are losing their eyesight and legs at age 20.  Isnt it sad that they rather be blind or crippled then fat?  My mother did that,,,,she was mentally ill and decided she wanted to be skinny, stopped taking her insulin and lost over 100lbs in less than a year,,,,,then she died.


It's really quite an insideous disease.




Ssuccubus -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/7/2008 11:38:07 PM)

Thank you so very much Tracy for your kind words *hugs*

~Ssuccubus




angelikaJ -> RE: Thoughts on Obesity/Bariatric/Gastric ByPass Surgery? (2/10/2008 7:15:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress

 
I also just wanted to say, in case anyone did not know, that insulin is a hormone, and just like most hormones, it makes you grow, which is the main reason diabetic woman have big babies (My son was 12lbs at a month early).  So for those diabetics that are insulin dependant, you really need to seek medical attention if you are trying to lose weight.  For every unit of insulin you take, it keep appx 8 lbs of weight on your body, so that has to be monitored.  Right now, there is a trend going on among young diabetic teenaged girls that stop taking their insulin to lose weight but they are losing their eyesight and legs at age 20.  Isnt it sad that they rather be blind or crippled then fat?  My mother did that,,,,she was mentally ill and decided she wanted to be skinny, stopped taking her insulin and lost over 100lbs in less than a year,,,,,then she died.


Not entirely accurate.
If insulin kept weight on you as you say I would weigh at least 560lbs
As I understand it most hormones are catalysts for the regulation of the processes that govern bodily function.
Insulin acts as a key to open the cells to accept glucose as fuel.

The people who stop taking their insulin  lose weight because their tissues are literally starving to death on a cellular level.




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