life - the point and pointlessness of it all (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:20:47 AM)

Well, what a fascinating documentary (yes another one) I watched last night.

It was all about the cosmic threats to our existence. Naturally, they covered the usual stuff about asteroids and comets colliding with the Earth, and made mention of black holes and the death of the Sun. They didnt mention the collision of the Andromeda galaxy with our Milky Way though, but they did cover two rather scary possibilities I'd not come across before.

The first was the unlikely but catastrophic if it happened, possibility of the Earth being hit by a gamma ray burst. Supposedly, these bursts occur when a large star collapses into a black hole and it all depends which direction the bursts are pointing in as to whether they hit anything. If one hit the Earth - and we are a very small target all in all, we'd be, well, pretty well done; these bursts are very powerful and nothing would save us from one originating even 1000 light years away. But apparently there are three observable gamma ray bursts a day....

The second was scary and not scary; the "Big Tear". The Big Tear is the conclusion to some physicists work on why the universe is expanding and the final result when it expands to it maximum possible extent. The idea is that dark energy is whats causing the expansion and this wont dissipate but instead lead to more expansion until time and space cant take it any more and gets ripped apart, down to the atomic level. Whilst it would of course, spoil our day a great deal, the ending of time itself would render our day redundant anyway - even if we were to somehow endure, which is impossible since we're made up of atoms that would also be ripped apart.

So, all in all we're pretty fucked whatever we do.

We can deflect asteroids and comets from our planet. We should by all odds avoid getting hit by a gamma ray burst whilst we're here. We could perhaps one day escape our region of the galaxy and settle on some new planet to avoid the demise of our star. We could perhaps one day even escape our galaxy to avoid the collision with Andromeda. We might just in these escapes, avoid black holes and gamma ray bursts. But if the Big Tear occurs, it will all be for nothing anyway.

So why worry? Why worry about anything more than the here and now and enjoying our time as sentient beings? Whether we're good or bad, virtuous or evil, high or low, it has no consequence whatever in the greater scheme of things. We should all do only as much as will profit us and make us happy.

E



kittinSol -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:34:37 AM)

We worry because we are so self-centered that we believe we matter when in the grand scheme of things, we don't. Spiritually we can make a difference to ourselves.

Here is something about dark matter from the CERN - Centre Europeen pour la Recherche Nucleaire, the largest particule accelerator in the world (based in Geneva - I lived right above it) . I think you'll find this interesting (I certainly did):

http://public.web.cern.ch/PUBLIC/en/Science/Dark-en.html





Rule -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:39:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The first was the unlikely but catastrophic if it happened, possibility of the Earth being hit by a gamma ray burst.
Humanity would have had to have fucked up Creation in a major way for that to happen.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The second was scary and not scary; the "Big Tear". The Big Tear is the conclusion to some physicists work on why the universe is expanding and the final result when it expands to it maximum possible extent. The idea is that dark energy is whats causing the expansion
The universe is not expanding. Dark energy does not exist.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
We can deflect asteroids and comets from our planet.
Depends on how many are thrown at us.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
settle on some new planet to avoid the demise of our star.
Is already being contemplated and perhaps executed. In any case it is likely that there already are humans out there.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
We could perhaps one day even escape our galaxy to avoid the collision with Andromeda.
Lots of star births in such a collision, so the supernova explosions and accompanying gamma ray flashes may be a local problem for a brief period of time.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
avoid black holes

Do not exist.



mnottertail -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:40:23 AM)

Makes up about 26% of the ponderable universe and 70% of its energy?

I am sure it is american in nature then.

Richard Feynman  



kittinSol -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:42:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

makes up about 26% of the universe and 70% of its energy, I am sure it is american in nature then.

Richard Feynman  


[sm=biggrin.gif]

PS: Rule... I am gobsmacked. I'd forgotten how you can always be relied on for entertainment :-) .



atursvcMaam -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:42:55 AM)

A brilliant Woman once told me:
  Every day is a gift, and no day is a promise.
everything else is a bonus.



SugarMyChurro -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:45:27 AM)

And it is with such ideas in mind that I seek personal happiness and to end the shame and guilt used as powers of control.

[;)]

-----

Mr. Hart will find out in time. He will find out that death needs time. Death needs time like a junkie needs junk. And what does death need time for? The answer is soooo simple. Death needs time for what it kills to grow in, for Ah Pook's sweet sake, you stupid, vulgar, greedy ugly American death sucker. Like this! Death walks out in the field and kills the young Corn God. Young Corn God becomes a death seed from which another young Corn God will grow - birth and death in all its rich variety of an old outhouse. However, there is always more death than growth, even in the simplest terms of soil exhaustion. Corn is a very exhausting crop. Apparently the Mayans were ignorant of crop rotation, and in any case had no domestic animals to eat a cover crop and shit it back in fertilizer. Consequently, soil exhaustion was a problem and after the soil in the immediate vicinity of a city was exhausted, they had to travel further and further to find fertile fields, spending more and more time in transit to and from. Now every time you kill the young Corn God life goes out of him. The seed grows slower ... the seed loses vitality. The Corn God looks like a soulless zombie. And finally the seed does not grow. No time for death. So death has to travel.

Death takes the young Corn God back to a time when he hadn't been hit so often he is punch-drunk, back to his youth -back back back ... clickety clickety clack ... back to the Garden of Eden. Sure, death will burn that down too. The Mayan priests made these expeditions into past time because they had burned down present time. Mayan scholars have wondered why they did not make calculations into future time; they were overdrawn. Checks bounced. Nothing and nobody there.

Now this did not happen right away. You don't get hooked on the first shot, and even when you are hooked you can control it for a while maybe, stay on the same dose ... but fix yourself on a junkie on heroin for several thousand years. Control that habit? So he goes back to the time when his habit was manageable, and when it gets out of hand there he goes further back-back-back. Look at the Mayan pantheon and the calendar and you will see that the Mayans, as experienced vampires and time junkies, were keenly aware of this impasse and took what precautions they could to avoid it by balancing the Gods of death and life, not as Mr. Hart's accounts are balanced on an either/or basis, but through a series of transitional shadings.

- Ah Pook is Here, William S. Burroughs




LadyEllen -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 6:53:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

And it is with such ideas in mind that I seek personal happiness and to end the shame and guilt used as powers of control.

[;)]



Point 1 accomplished.
Your conclusion and aims agreed.

E



Rule -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:01:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
PS: Rule... I am gobsmacked. I'd forgotten how you can always be relied on for entertainment :-) .
[;)]



Jeffff -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:07:15 AM)

From now, until the shit hits the fan, I would like to be reasonably happy.

Lord Dark Matter



kittinSol -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:10:12 AM)

There's already plenty of dark matter here. No need for extra shit.



MistressVnus -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:20:19 AM)

quote:

So why worry? Why worry about anything more than the here and now and enjoying our time as sentient beings? Whether we're good or bad, virtuous or evil, high or low, it has no consequence whatever in the greater scheme of things. We should all do only as much as will profit us and make us happy.


I agree about enjoying the here and now, cause in the end, what will be will be.  HOWEVER, if one continues to deny the state of things they might miss the opportunity to make a difference with their own soul and what happens to them in the "hereafter."
Of course, you have to believe in such things before you would consider a need to get your "spiritual" ducks in a row.
Perhaps a little "fear and worry" might be good for some people to "get it."



LadyEllen -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:25:11 AM)

MsVnus - but in the final scenario, there is no "hereafter" for which to plan and no reason to fear or worry about anything that is beyond the short horizon of our own experience.

E



MistressVnus -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:29:23 AM)

quote:

there is no "hereafter"


You think not?  Like I said, you have to believe it before you can prepare for it.
To each their own.



pahunkboy -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:34:29 AM)

i want a pony



kittinSol -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:41:36 AM)

Not wanting to turn this into yet another religious thread, but you just hinted at the difference between science and religion. Religion asks that you believe, and science that you observe.

According to up-to-date calculations, the universe is stretching and if it continues to do so it will lead to a big freeze of black holes and dying stars, as dark matter takes over. If it stops stretching and it contracts back to its original state, there'll be an almighty imploding crash and MASSIVE black hole. Third most peaceful solution is that it'll eventually slow down to a halt, which would avoid a general cataclysm that would end everything. 

There's a fight between the pull of gravity and the push of expansion that we can't do much about, except sit down and observe... What interests me is if there is an end to the universe whether it will be followed by another Big Bang, and if so, whether these events are part of a cycle that endlessly repeats itself.

That would be absolute perfection.



celticlord2112 -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:43:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

So why worry? Why worry about anything more than the here and now and enjoying our time as sentient beings? Whether we're good or bad, virtuous or evil, high or low, it has no consequence whatever in the greater scheme of things. We should all do only as much as will profit us and make us happy.


I agree about enjoying the here and now, cause in the end, what will be will be. HOWEVER, if one continues to deny the state of things they might miss the opportunity to make a difference with their own soul and what happens to them in the "hereafter."
Of course, you have to believe in such things before you would consider a need to get your "spiritual" ducks in a row.
Perhaps a little "fear and worry" might be good for some people to "get it."



Live well today, and tomorrow will be in good order.



LadyEllen -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:46:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressVnus

quote:

there is no "hereafter"


You think not?  Like I said, you have to believe it before you can prepare for it.
To each their own.



What I believe - even what I believe I might know, is here irrelevant.

The "Big Tear" and the results of it are clear. There could be no "hereafter" because there would no longer be any time or space in which it could exist or indeed where we could exist. Even if the "hereafter" exists now then it couldnt exist after the Big Tear. Even if we prepare with all our might according to one religion, many or none for the hereafter, it is ultimately a pointless exercise.

This is the premise of this post - because its about more than me waffling on about some documentary.

E



seeksfemslave -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:55:20 AM)

Dark Matter is a construct created by  cosmologists 'cos their theories dont work.

Wait a minute Humhprey we have a problem our equations dont balance.
Dont worry Cecil lets add a bit of dark matter, that should do it.
Well done Humphrey that should sustain our grants for a few more years. 



kittinSol -> RE: life - the point and pointlessness of it all (2/7/2008 7:59:05 AM)

Huh... please explain.



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